When the fraud squad raided Verget

Anybody familiar with the details of this controversy in the French wine world?

When the fraud squad raided Verget

[David M. Bueker]

News to me

Just watched the video, and it's awful that this was allowed to happen to Jean-Marie Guffens, his family, and his staff.

Unfortunately affairs of administrative and judicial harassment happen from time to time in France. A few years ago there was an appalling high profile case of suspected paedophilia at a place called Outreau where many innocent people were locked up for a long time before it transpired that they were victims of an over-zealous examining magistrate.

I suspect that Jean-Marie Guffens' sharp tongue with self-important officials resulted in his being marked out for "special treatment". The Customs administration in France (also in England) enjoys very special powers whose origins are in the mists of history. In both countries the officials can be especially arrogant, maybe because less than a couple of centuries ago the offences with which they dealt were subject to the death penalty; by contrast direct tax inspectors seem to be models of charm. However, maybe naively, I like to think that in my native Britain the customs would not have gone to such lengths to frame someone by intimidating his employees on such flimsy evidence.

BTW, if any senior customs official views that video, Jean-Marie's cheeky concluding remarks may ensure him another descent in the future (in the French version; I couldn't play the English one for some reason).

Ditto what Tim said. You do not mess with French civil servants. (Especially not if you are a foreigner...)

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L

[James Roscoe]

In the US this story would get in the NY times or get some air play on 60 minutes and the civil servants would find themselves out of a job. Oh, and the government would probably be out some significant $$$$ as well. Only in Latin countries would this be tolerated in the the "West". I suppose this is an example of why English justice can be better than Latin justice.

I suppose this is an example of why English justice can be better than Latin justice.

I don't think that the courts were at fault in the Guffens case though they were very much in the firing line at Outreau. The Dijon court did its job for Guffens and dismissed the customs proceedings. However, I do think that it would be playing with fire for him to take matters further in order to get the officials concerned punished.

Are US and UK justice always that perfect? In the UK, the alleged Birmingham pub bombers spent 16 years in gaol until the case was dismissed on appeal after new evidence showed that the police had "improved" the evidence for the initial trial.

Isn't it sometimes difficult for foreigners to get "justice" against US servicemen? For example, I seem to recall a lot of Italian frustration when US planes brought down a ski cabin full of people. And I remember advice from a New York lawyer to avoid commercial jurisdiction in certain states where trial is by jury which almost always find in favour of the local party.

[James Roscoe]

I suppose this is an example of why English justice can be better than Latin justice.

I don't think that the courts were at fault in the Guffens case though they were very much in the firing line at Outreau. The Dijon court did its job for Guffens and dismissed the customs proceedings. However, I do think that it would be playing with fire for him to take matters further in order to get the officials concerned punished.

Are US and UK justice always that perfect? In the UK, the alleged Birmingham pub bombers spent 16 years in gaol until the case was dismissed on appeal after new evidence showed that the police had "improved" the evidence for the initial trial.

Isn't it sometimes difficult for foreigners to get "justice" against US servicemen? For example, I seem to recall a lot of Italian frustration when US planes brought down a ski cabin full of people. And I remember advice from a New York lawyer to avoid commercial jurisdiction in certain states where trial is by jury which almost always find in favour of the local party.

Isn't this guy a French citizen? I assumed that even if he was from Belgium, he had become a French citizen. I guess I made the mistake that after thirty years of living in France he had become a French citizen. If he were a US citizen I think he would get better treatment than that! Even if he spoke with a French accent. Anyway the right to sue is a hallowed right in the US, especially if you have money and the media has made a big deal out of it. In the end, I prefer the English tradition to the Napoleonic-Justinian tradition of justice. Both have their antecedents in Roman law, but English tradition tends to give less power to civil officials that avoids just this sort of problem.

Isn't this guy a French citizen? I assumed that even if he was from Belgium, he had become a French citizen.

I'm not sure whether Guffens has acquired French nationality but his French is oddly accented, though completely fluent. I think that this sort of harassment could also happen to a native Frenchman or woman, but I don't think that audible non-French origins combined with cheek would help with a pompous French official.

I too prefer the Anglo legal tradition, particularly for the well heeled.

[James Roscoe]

I am just nervous about a justice system that grants so much power to the government and takes it away from the people and this seems a perfect example of why it can be a problem. I am perhaps naive that the people in the Anglo-Saxon system have any more real authority, but I like to think so. I will agree that the power of the US military (or any military) is always a problem. Additionally the lawyer who advised against doing business in certain US jurisdictions was probably not as well versed in the subtleties of state laws as he probably should have been, nor did he understand that nearly every jurisdiction in the US has its larger cosmopolitan centers where those sorts of prejudices would have little effect. Of course in today's market anyone bringing business into a state is a hero.