WTN: Ramsay AlicanteBouschet '94..(short/boring)

Pulled out this throw-away to have w/ my pizza last night:
1. Ramsay AlicanteBouschet NorthCoast (13%) 1994: Very dark/black color w/ slight bricking; strong very earthy/dusty/Kansas root cellar/wet concrete/sidewalk after a rain slight licorice/chocolate little fruit/blackberry nose; soft bit tangy/dried out/tannic strong Kansas root cellar/earthy/dusty/wet pavement some licorice/grapefruity/minty interesting complex flavor; very long some tangy/grapefruity/licorice quite earthy/dusty/wet pavement some tannic/dried out rough/rustic finish; on the downside but still clinging to life and some interesting things therein; some like an old Ridge Pagani w/o the fruit; loads of Kansas root cellar/wet pavement character; pretty good job for a crap grape by KentRasmussen.
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A wee BloodyPulpit:
1. Alicante: This is a tenturier grape, a grape w/ anthocyanins in the juice, unlike most vinifera. It was planted a lot during Prohibition because it handled rough shipping back East and gave wines of black color. I've seens the hands of winemakers who were making Alicante and they were black-stained for weeks.
I had read that the color on Alicante was unstable and dropped color rather fast for such a black wine because the anthocyanins were of a different nature. Certainly no signs of color loss on this wine; though by the end of the evening it was starting to turn murky and slightly brownish.
Ridge has made some Alicantes in the early '90's from PaganiRanch grapes. Wish they would make that wine again.
Ramsay was/is the second label for KentRasmussen that he's used for wines made from purchased grapes. But a 2'nd label it is not. He's done some pretty interesting wines under that label over the yrs....Dolcetto/EarlyBurgundy/Pinotage. He still continues to experiment w/ some interesting varieties. He & MattRorick/ForlornHope should get together sometime. Hmmmmmm...I don't supose it was Kent that stole most of Matt's StLaurent grapes from Ricci this Fall, was it???
Tom

Interesting that alicante is supposed to lose color. I've not noticed that in the ones I've had either.

Tom Hill wrote:
“…though by the end of the evening it was starting to turn murky and slightly brownish.”

I believe the reference was to Alicante being prone to “oxidize” fairly easily.

Salute

I seem to recall reading in one of my oenology textbooks that the polyphenolics in
AlicanteBouschet were not particularly stable and it tended to lose color rapidly.
I'll see if I can resurect that point.
Tom

I believe one of Alicante’s parents is Grenache and it too is prone to “oxidize” easily. It makes sense no that a grape chiefly blended and “desired” for its “color” would be lacking “non-colored” (“co-factors”).

Salute

Of all the Portuguese wine regions, I'm least interested in the Alentejo; the wines tend to be the most 'new world' in style. But one thing they do well with is Alicante Bouchet - and the standard bearer is said to be Mouchao Tonel 3-4. Sadly, it is quite expensive, so I've never tried a bottle, but some of the less expensive AB's have been interesting.

In my neck of the woods, (like Joe) I see a lot of Alicante Boushet from Portugal, and yes some of it is quite “pricey” and the likes of WS and WE seem to give it fairly “high” scores (90’s and up). The only California Alicante Boushet I see is from Coppola (Diamond Collection).

Salute

We just went to Herzog Winery and they have an Alicate Bouschet - here is my posting:

http://kosherwinemusings.com/2012/01/02 ... estaurant/

David

Raccah, you didn't even call me when you were in the area? You know, we have 2011s here, and those 2010s are much different than they were a year ago. Plus, I'm sure the family would have enjoyed seeing you.

Of all the Portuguese wine regions, I'm least interested in the Alentejo; the wines tend to be the most 'new world' in style. But one thing they do well with is Alicante Bouchet - and the standard bearer is said to be Mouchao Tonel 3-4. Sadly, it is quite expensive, so I've never tried a bottle, but some of the less expensive AB's have been interesting.

Joe, I too have seen a few AB in the store here. One good one from Encostas de Estremoz (`04), think I posted here.
I have to forward you something from Uk forum btw.

Edit, found it.....>

WTN: `04 Encostas de Estremoz Alicante Bouschet, Alentejo.

$22 Cdn, 14% alc, gd natural cork, no sediment noted, did not decant. Opened for an hour or so, my first AB experience! Not a very well-known winery till now!

Color. Dark ruby, no sign of age on the rim. Looks very inviting.

Nose. Some oak, spice, pepper, some big black fruits here. No change overnight.

Palate. Initial entry thought was chewy, dry, blackberry, some cab here?? Hint of some sweetness, cocoa, good acidity, smooth tannins on the finish. Plum and trace of cherry, "reminds me of a malbec" from across the table. Might be a tad new world for some but this wine worked for me.
Not much evolvement overnight, maybe some old leather, more peppery but still fresh and clean. Think this might merit some more cellaring?

Food was pork scallopini, blueberry coulis and vegies.

i could write a tome on Alicante....I know lots and lots about the grape
and have quite a lot of respect for it, but will keep to the topic. THe
grapes for this wine came from over in the Suisun Valley north of Cordelia
and west of Fairfield (and really, as the crow flys, only about 4 miles
east of Napa. The vineyard was a very old one, planted during prohibition.
The vineyard owner was a dentist who, at best, had very little interest in
grapes, but really liked the view from his house on the property. We made
a great wine from these (largely un-farmed) grapes for many years. THe
vines were tiny...only a couple of feet tall and not much wider and the
surrounding land had built up over the years so that each vine was growing
in a sort of private little hole....very strange. I think the first year
we made wine from those grapes was in 1988....and we made one every year
until 1999.....then in 2000 there simply were no grapes......and none in
2001 (no explanation that I can think of) then in 2002 we got a crop of a
quality that we had never seen before and after that the vineyard basically
died. A swan-song? I doubt that I will ever make another AB....last I
looked there were only about 30 acres left in the North Coast....but it was
a personal favorite for many years.

Tom, speaking of the vanishing AB in CA, I posted this on the recent Topolos Zin thread:

Tom: I remember visiting Topolos back in the '90s and your observations are right on. Do you have any idea what became of the place? Got the feeling that there was some good material lurking under some horrendous winemaking. Apropos the Alicante Bouchet thread, I think they made a massively dark and extracted version which was almost drinkable....

Not sure if you saw this, but is my recollection correct about a Topolos AB?

Tom, speaking of the vanishing AB in CA, I posted this on the recent Topolos Zin thread:

Tom: I remember visiting Topolos back in the '90s and your observations are right on. Do you have any idea what became of the place? Got the feeling that there was some good material lurking under some horrendous winemaking. Apropos the Alicante Bouchet thread, I think they made a massively dark and extracted version which was almost drinkable....

Not sure if you saw this, but is my recollection correct about a Topolos AB?

Yup.....I definitely recall the Topolos Alicante. Again, inept winemaking was a problem.
Tom

Hi Tom, I have to ask. I've been seeing your posts over the past several years and have always wondered why "short/boring" or "long/boring" appears at the end of the subject headers. Would you be so kind as to dispel the mystery? Thanks! Tom

They're either short or long, but IMHO never boring! Just love Tom’s “Wee Bloody Pulpit”!

Salute

Hi Tom, I have to ask. I've been seeing your posts over the past several years and have always wondered why "short/boring" or "long/boring" appears at the end of the subject headers. Would you be so kind as to dispel the mystery? Thanks! Tom

Tom,
Back in the early days of the InterNet, just after AlGore invented it, back when I was one of the first people to connect
up my punched card reader to the InterNet thru its USB port; the line speeds used to be very slow. If you made a post that
was particularly long, it was the protocol to attach the warning (long) to your subject line to give the reader a head's up that
the download time might be lengthy.
After I get thru writing up one/some of my TN's, I find them starting to get pretty boring, so I also append "boring" to my subject
line to give any potential readers a head's up to its boring content. It's just an InterNet courtesy.
Old habits die hard. I just gave up my phone that had a rotary dial in favor of one of those phones w/ punchey buttons. But the thought
of a phone that's not connected by a line to my wall....man...that scares the holy bejeezus out of me.
But thanks for asking, Tom. Now you know the rest of the story!!!
Tom

Hi Tom, I have to ask. I've been seeing your posts over the past several years and have always wondered why "short/boring" or "long/boring" appears at the end of the subject headers. Would you be so kind as to dispel the mystery? Thanks! Tom

Tom,
Back in the early days of the InterNet, just after AlGore invented it, back when I was one of the first people to connect
up my punched card reader to the InterNet thru its USB port; the line speeds used to be very slow. If you made a post that
was particularly long, it was the protocol to attach the warning (long) to your subject line to give the reader a head's up that
the download time might be lengthy.
After I get thru writing up one/some of my TN's, I find them starting to get pretty boring, so I also append "boring" to my subject
line to give any potential readers a head's up to its boring content. It's just an InterNet courtesy.
Old habits die hard. I just gave up my phone that had a rotary dial in favor of one of those phones w/ punchey buttons. But the thought
of a phone that's not connected by a line to my wall....man...that scares the holy bejeezus out of me.
But thanks for asking, Tom. Now you know the rest of the story!!!
Tom

Interesting Tom. Thanks for the explanation, which being a tech dinosaur myself, I can relate to. I tend to hang on to a technology and it's conventions until I am forced to change. I am probably the only person in NYC who has been with the same cell phone company since I started using one about 15 years ago!

...and thanks also for reminding me of my debt of gratitude to Al Gore, prince of a guy that one

"I just gave up my phone that had a rotary dial in favor of one of those phones w/ punchey buttons".

Must try to get one of those fancy phones up here!