Two new "wine" books

FWIW I got the new Oxford University Press catalog at work today and noticed these:

"Soils for Wines"
Robert E. White
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/s ... 0195141023

"Understanding Vineyard Soils"
Robert E. White
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/s ... 0195311259

Both are obviously not wine books in the traditional sense, but I know there are some vignerons and more serious folks hereabout who might be interested. The first one lists for $110.00 and the second for $39.95 but they seem to be on sale (might be just to schools, which is how I got the catalog) for $38.50 and $20.00 respectively.

I've no association with OUP just thought some might be interested.

btw, the new edition of stevenson's sothebys encyclopedia is out. selling for an attractive price on amazon.

btw, the new edition of stevenson's sothebys encyclopedia is out. selling for an attractive price on amazon.

I review it here BTW (I was not really convinced):
http://www.winenous.co.uk/wp/archives/2420

i find the book very useful and readable - unlike some others. of course one can never use just one source. AND i'm not really sure what you are getting at in the factoid on rose. It sounds as if you are saying that other french sparkling wines besides champagne can be made by blending red and white wine. it also sounds as if you are saying that any still wine WITH a geographical designation - is that the same as an AOC? - can be made by blending red and white wine. please clarify.

i find the book very useful and readable - unlike some others. of course one can never use just one source. AND i'm not really sure what you are getting at in the factoid on rose. It sounds as if you are saying that other french sparkling wines besides champagne can be made by blending red and white wine. it also sounds as if you are saying that any still wine WITH a geographical designation - is that the same as an AOC? - can be made by blending red and white wine. please clarify.

Er yes, that is pretty much it. By wine with geographical designation I mean AOC and VdP in France DOC, DOCG and IGT in Italy etc.

I am saying that there are no EU regulations banning the making of rosé wine by blending red and white wines for sparkling and semi-sparkling, and no such rules for still wines at VdP/IGT or above. The EU rosé blending ban applies to table wines - ones that just say "product of France" or wherever. Actually that is not quite precise, but if I were being precise I would merely quote the paragraphs from the regulations that you have doubtless already seen on my blog.

Of course AOC and VdP (and equivalent in other countries) rules may ban such methods of making rosés, and I do not doubt that many do. But I bet some do not, and gave an example of an English sparkling rosé made by blending - and I actually know of another English rosé made like that, but can show nothing in writing.

All this is arguably pedantry, but IMO is is the job of reference works to be pedantically correct. Others may take a different view, and I sort of allowed for that possibility at the end of my review.

What did you think about the Valpol Ripasso bit BTW? I found that very strange.

well, the ripasso thing is the strong one; the other is...... for AOC, VDP IGT wines and similar in other EU countries - which you say are the only ones NOT covered by the new regulations that would allow red and white blending - still set to go into effect - can you name one that allows such blending other than champagne. english wines don't have such a system, so they don't count. there is almost nothing in stevenson's book that deals with the 'table wines' and he correctly ignores them. if one does ignore them - as they should in a serious wine book - is his claim wrong?

David wrote;
…English wines don't have such a system, so they don't count.

As far as I know the UK is a member of the EU, so somehow their wines have to fall into the framework laid out by the EU regarding the production of wine (Table Wine, Regional Wine, and Quality Wine Produced in a Specific Region).

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/euwineregs.pdf

As far as the Rosé thing I thought it was somewhat settled with the labeling of the wines with “Traditional Rosé” and “Rose by Blending”

http://www.beveragedaily.com/Markets/Co ... s-approval

Salute

David and Victorwine - I explain here what happened to the recent proposal to change the rosé regulations:
http://www.winenous.co.uk/wp/archives/2496
This is where I deal with the rosé point in detail, but I see from my blog stats that nobody has clicked through to this page.

David - As pointed out by Victorwine, the UK is very much subject to EU regulations. It also has its own regulations within the framework of the EU ones - not explained in the Enclyopedia, but it is in the Oxford Companion. We have UK table wine, regional wines (VdP equivalent) and quality wines (AOC) - the two regions for regional and quality wines are England and Wales. Not a fantastic system, but that is how we fit into the EU structure. As to whether Stevenson was wrong or not: look at what he actually said, read what the regulations are (the link above is a good start), and decide for yourself.

In many ways, as mentioned before, this is trivial pedantry. But on the other hand, if it were true it is a very bold and interesting fact that Champagne is the only European wine allowed to make rosé in this way, and you see and hear it repeated many places - and I now find it more and more grating each time I hear it.

I think the UK Vineyard Association (UKVA) and Wine Standard Board (WSB) did a pretty good job interpreting the EU regulation on “blending”.

4.3.7 Blending of Wines
Blending of wines is only allowed if it does not involve wines from different categories. The
categories are defined as:
· Red must and red wine (including rose wine)
· White must and white wine
I assume this means for holding back “reserve” juice for “sweetening” a wine
· Table wine (including those with geographic descriptors)
[color=#000000]Wines classified as a Table wines with geographic descriptors cannot be blended with table wines without geographic descriptors (unless the wine is “down graded” to a Table wine without geographic descriptors)[/color]
· Quality wine psr
Wines classified as Regional wines can only be blended with other regional wines and wines classified as Quality Wines Produced in a Specific region (Quality wine prs) can only be blended with wines from the same category (unless of course “down grading” is involved)
Blending of wines from the same categories is not allowed if any of the ingredients are illegal
e.g. an over-enriched wine (illegal) cannot be blended with a un-enriched or legally enriched
wine. However, a table wine that fails to meet the minimum actual alcoholic strength may be
blended with a legal table wine at the premises of the winemaker.
Note: Water is not a permitted additive except as necessary for the dissolution of permitted
additives.

Salute

Not sure 4.3.7 is that clear. But it is (intentionally or not) stricter than 606/2009 in a number of respects. Para 4.3 is entitled "Table Wines", so does 4.3.7 just apply to table wines? Sparkling wines are dealt with in other paragraphs 4.4 - 4.6. But quality wine also has its own paragraph, and quality wine is explicitly mentioned in 4.3.7. Also, the categories of 4.3.7 are rather strangely defined - I cannot believe it is ilegal to blend any pair of those categories.

This is the way I look at it
This only applies to the labeling and marketing aspects of the wine. If you label a wine “Red Table Wine”(for the so-called “higher quality” wines one might see this term or the term “Red Still Wine”) use red grapes. If you produce a “red” wine using “white” wine or grapes (co-fermentations), and if the rules and regulations allow this “blend” so be it label the wine accordingly, but in the fine print do not label this wine “Red” instead just use the terms “Table Wine” or “Still Wine” The same can be done for Sparkling wines (Red Sparkling Wine; White Sparkling Wine; Sparkling Wine) and Dessert wines.

If you want to label a wine “White” use white grapes.
If you want to label a wine “Red” use red grapes.
If you want to label a wine “Rosé”-
If you make it the “traditional” way or the way the specific region has always done it
(and you follow the rules and regulations in the production of that specific wine)
label it accordingly or as a ‘Traditional Rosé”
If you want try something “unconditional” or “different” label it “Blended Rosé”

Salute

Thanks for the info Kelly. Would love to have these books but full list price is more than I want to pay sine I already planted my vineyard. If I could find them for the discount rate I would snap them up. I will keep looking for them.

so the two regions in england for regional and quality wines are england and wales? "not fantastic" but "its the way we do it"?? sheesh. no doubt England has 'qualtiy wine' - no one has been a bigger cheerleader than Stevenson - but do they regulate 'quality wines' in the level of specificity typical of AOC's? clearly stevenson was referring to AOC's in his comment on Champagne - I'm sure if he had realized the resulting kerfuffle he would have made the change.

i guess the most surprising thing to me is how interested people seem to be in the general EU regulations. it never occurred to me that these were very interesting for 'qualtiy wine' - read AOC, and similar. i guess i should bone up on those general regs as others seem to care as much about them as i do about the specific regs for each AOC.

clearly stevenson was referring to AOC's in his comment on Champagne

His words (without removing context that may change the meaning) are: "[Rosé Champagne] is the only European rosé that may be made by blending white wine with a little red; all other rosé, whether still or sparkling, must be produced by macerating the skins and juice to extract pigments."

I certainly would not want to defend UK wine regs. In the unlikely case that anyone is interested in that subject, and anything else to do with UK wine, I can strongly recommend Stephen Skelton's UK Vineyards Guide - available from lulu.com. In the even more unlikely case anyone wants to discuss it further, I suggest we do so in another thread.

Apologies for hijacking this thread somewhat. I agree with Brian that the 2 books in the original post look very interesting, but I would be reluctant to buy them at that price. I'd certainly take an oppotrunity to borrow them!