Open Mike: Montepulciano deserves more respect!

I think I need to stop and inspect such wines more diligently! How about you?


http://www.thewinedoctor.com/regionalgu ... iano.shtml

Bob, I think that Vino Nobile di M (the small town in Tuscany whose wines Chris writes about) gets a fair amount respect but wines from the M grape less so. The wines from the grape (M d'Abruzzo, Rosso Conero, etc.) do IMO also deserve a lot of respect; at the entry level they represent excellent QPR and some of the more ambitious cuvées, e.g. from Masciarelli, La Valentina, Valentini, etc., are very good indeed.

Bob and Tim - Both good points. The Montepulciano grape certainly deserves more attention; Vino Nobile di Montepulciano could probably benefit from more as well.

In the case of Vino Nobile, I probably need to make an effort to try more over the next couple of years or so, considering I drink a good amount of Chianti and other Tuscan wines. Of the "selected estates" on Winedoctor.com, the only one whose Vino Nobile I've actually had is Avignonesi.

Thanks for the valued replies, Tim and Andrew. I am seriously thinking of an Open Mike as we have not had one for quite a while. Not sure of the response but worth thinking about eh. I have been neglecting Italian reds of late and with the store downtown having a fair selection, might be worth a punt. What do you think?

Thanks for the valued replies, Tim and Andrew. I am seriously thinking of an Open Mike as we have not had one for quite a while. Not sure of the response but worth thinking about eh. I have been neglecting Italian reds of late and with the store downtown having a fair selection, might be worth a punt. What do you think?

We had an Open Mike on Montepulciano d'Abruzzo about 3 years ago. One on Vino Nobile di Montepulciano and Rosso di Montepulciano would also attract my interest. As Chris says VN di M Asinone from Polizano and probably others have nothing to fear from other great Tuscans.

This was a post on Gianni Masciarelli of Montepulciano d'Abruzzo (the place and the grape). Since the discussion is limited to Montepulicano the place, it ought to come out to prevent confusion. But I don't seem to be able to delete it. Perhaps a friendly Administrator can help...

Seeing that there is a bit of interest here, I have amended the title to an Open Mike so post away with your thoughts and recent tastings. I know pretty wide-ranging but give it a shot anyway.

I can get the ball rolling with a nice Rosso I tasted this afternoon at a local wine bar. I hasten to add that I am no expert in Italian red wines!

WTN: 2008 Il Poggione Rosso di Montalcino, Tuscany Italy.

Opened and decanted 2 hrs, $32 Cdn by the bottle on the shelf. Light color, wild berries, pepper to the forefront on the nose. Soft tannins, sour cherry, lengthy finish, needed food. 14% alc, good acidity I thought. I would not describe it as "velvety" (my server) but I enjoyed two glasses. I did not find a lot of oak here.
Am I close in my summing up?

Just to be clear, Bob. We are looking at wines from Montepulciano, the place, not from Montepulciano, the grape. These are two completely different things, even though some people speculate that the grape may have originally come from Tuscany.

A tasting is coming up later in the month where several wines from Poliziano will be on show, including his Asinone 2007, and also some Bordeaux blends which are probably made in Montepulciano though not entitled to the denominazione. This is an excellent reason to justify the round trip to Liège .

Vino Nobile di Montepulciano get my personal respect.
Although I am not a great fan of Chianti wines, I find the Vino Nobile more to my taste.
I not sure if this is the different clone or the wine making process that makes the difference.

La Breccesca Vino nobile Di Montepulciano 2005, is one of my favorites.

This was until I discovered the Vino Nobile di Montepulciano, Santa Pia, Tuscany, 2003 from the same estate.

Eli

Here are two TNs from recent years which show that IMO the best Vino Nobile di M has nothing to fear from any Tuscan.

From June 2010 -

Vino Nobile di Montepulciano Asinone 1999 – Poliziano – Alc. 13.5% was another lovely bottle. Colour was still deep though flecked with rust and the nose was expressive with notes of rich red fruit, some spice and tangy minerals. The palate was quite full bodied, generously mouth-filling and long with both depth and tangy brightness enriched by old book and noble oil notes; at its peak, I think, 17/20++.

From June 2009

Vino Nobile di Montepulciano “Asinone” 2000 – Poliziano – Alc.14%, Sangiovese dominated, was the wine of the week. Sweeter fruited than often, full bodied, round and complex but retaining enough Sangiovese tang and leather notes together with a delicious oiliness for its Tuscan class to show through; my wine of the week; 17/20.

Eli, apart from different terroir, I think there are some other differ'ences between Chianti and VN di M. I'll see if I can find out more. I love them both at their best. Have you tried Chianti from Fontodi and Fèlsina?

Thanks for the clarification Tim. I thought about my vague title but let it go! Another Rosso coming up at Vinomania tasting, grin wink.

Tim -

Thank you for the interesting notes.

Eli -

With regard to Chianti and Vino Nobile/Rosso di Montepuciano, another difference is in the clone of Sangiovese that is typically grown in those areas. Chianti typically uses the Sangioveto clone, whereas Vino Nobile/Rosso di Montepuciano relies on Prugnolo Gentile instead.

Eli -

With regard to Chianti and Vino Nobile/Rosso di Montepuciano, another difference is in the clone of Sangiovese that is typically grown in those areas. Chianti typically uses the Sangioveto clone, whereas Vino Nobile/Rosso di Montepuciano relies on Prugnolo Gentile instead.

Andrew, like you I've always thought that Prugnolo Gentile was a distinct clone of Sangiovese but the more I have looked into it in last day or two the more confused I get.

Here is an extract from Wikipedia which implies that Prugnolo Gentile belongs to the same family of Sangiovese Grosso as is used in Montalcino and in parts of the Chianti Classico region. I give an extended extract as there is also interesting information about the origins of Sangiovese.

Early ampelographical research into Sangiovese begun in 1906 with the work of G. Molon. Molon discovered that the Italian grape known as "Sangiovese" was actually several "varieties" of clones which he broadly classified as Sangiovese Grosso and Sangiovese Piccolo. The Sangiovese Grosso family included the clones growing in the Brunello region as well as the clones known as Prugnolo Gentile and Sangiovese di Lamole that was grown in the Greve in Chianti region. The Sangiovese Grosso, according to Molon, produced the highest quality wine, while the varieties in the Sangiovese Piccolo family, which included the majority of clones, produced wine of a lesser degree of quality.

In 2004, DNA profiling done by researchers at San Michele All'Adige revealed the grape to be the product of a crossing between Ciliegiolo and Calabrese Montenuovo. While Ciliegiolo has a long history tied to the Tuscan region, Calabrese Montenuovo (which is not related to the grape commonly known as Calabrese, or Nero d'Avola) has its origins in southern Italy, where it probably originated in the Calabria region before moving its way up to Campania. This essentially means that the genetic heritage of Sangiovese is half Tuscan and half southern Italian.[3] More recently, a genetic study on "Sangiovese" confirmed the hypothesis of a South Italian origin for ‘Sangiovese’ (Sicily and Calabria), but clearly demonstrated that "Ciliegiolo" is an offspring of "Sangiovese" (parent and grandparent pairs of "Ciliegiolo" identified). Furthermore, historical data supports these results since "Sangiovese" was cited 3 centuries earlier[6] than 'Ciliegiolo'.[7][8]


A study published in 2007 using DNA typing tentatively identified the varieties Ciliegiolo and Calabrese di Montenuovo as the parents of Sangiovese, but this was immediately disputed by another study published the same year which claimed Ciliegiolo was the offspring of Sangiovese rather than the other way around.[9] (In some cases, it is easier to establish a close relationship between grape varieties by DNA typing rather than to conclusively establish the exact nature of the relationship.)
Another Italian study published in 2008 using DNA typing showed a close genetic relationship between Sangiovese on the one hand and ten other Italian grape varieties on the other hand: Foglia Tonda, Frappato, Gaglioppo, Mantonicone, Morellino del Casentino, Morellino del Valdarno, Nerello Mascalese, Tuccanese di Turi, Susumaniello, and Vernaccia Nera del Valdarno. It is possible, and even likely, that Sangiovese is one of the parents of each of these grape varieties. However, since the parentage of Sangiovese is still disputed, the exact nature of the relationship in each case could not be conclusively established.[9] Since these grape varieties are spread over different parts of Italy (Apulia, Calabria, Sicily and Tuscany), this confirmed by genetic methods that Sangiovese is a key variety in the pedigree of red Italian grape varieties.


I have also come across another article which suggests that there has been a lot on clonal engineering around Sangiovese in recent years http://www.thewinenews.com/mam07/feat.asp and that a lot of the improvement in Chianti in the last two decades is the result of new clones. I don't know any more about the author than is printed at the bottom of the page but the article reads authoritatively.

I would imagine that Montepulciano and Montalcino would not be shy about using clones which give could results in the Chianti region. So the clonal distinctions are likely to be quite confused .

Here's a note from two years back. I assume we're not limiting ourselves to Vino Nobile and Rosso, as long as the wine hails from Montepulciano.

Poliziano, Tuscany, La Stanze, 2000

Am I missing out on something by not investing more time and money in Tuscany? This is a modern styled Super-Tuscan by a Montepuliciano producer with modern leanings, but nine years post-harvest, this wine seems very Italian in personality to me, despite a very polished facade. No matter how I'd label the wine style-wise, the nose shows green olives and black fruit while the palate is well built with a tightly wound structure and typical Tuscan acidity. A handsome wine.

These days, I'm more likely to buy a Vino Nobile than a Brunello.

Andrew, Tim,

Thanks for the feedback.
I was aware of the diffrent clones.
I was not too sure that the difference I find in my personal liking is due to the different clone fruit, or maybe more to the traditional wine making methods in the two regions.

Eli

A
I was not too sure that the difference I find in my personal liking is due to the different clone fruit, or maybe more to the traditional wine making methods in the two regions.

Eli

Eli, as far as I can tell from my admittedly limited searches, I cannot trace any substantial differences in wine-making practices between the two areas apart from minimum proportions of Sangiovese/Prugnolo Gentile of 75% for Chianti and 70% for VNdiM. In both areas the banning of white varieties and the allowing of small quantities of international varieties like CabSauv and Merlot are quite recent. Do you have some information upon which I have not yet found?

ON a NWR tack, Montepulciano, which somehow I have never visited, has the reputation of being one of Tuscany's most beautiful hilltop towns. Judging by these images, its reputation is justified http://www.google.com/search?q=montepul ... 24&bih=548 .

There is a price to pay for the views though - hard work getting up the hill with a full rucksack

I'm glad we went there, though I'd not want to go in peak tourist season - it seemed to have sold a little of it's soul to the tourist dollar and that was in a late October visit. Still plenty of charm though and for those wanting wine tasting without the hassle of organising visits, there are plenty of little cellar door style 'shops' to taste in, without heading off the hill.

We visited two physical wineries - Daviddi and Poliziano. The former was a charming little family affair, with typical Italian hospitality (from bringing towels to dry us after we turned up soaked from the rain, to the plate of sliced salami, to insisting on driving us across the road to Poliziano). Poliziano themselves are more the grand operation, slicker and more commercial, albeit with an interesting cross-section of wines and a very professional attitude. Two other comments I'll hold to myself, one negative, the other positive, that effectively evened each other out.

Finally, we also visited the little shop of Crociani, for which I'd made an appointment. Despite being knee deep in boxes and hard at work (with a sense of purpose not unusual in Italian ladies), once they recognised the name, chairs got dug out, glasses proferred and time given. We left with a great impression of hard working people who were still happy to take a little time out for visitors. Definitely wines to look out for - there's some talent in amongst that hard work.

regards

Ian

p.s. When checking my spelling of Daviddi, what site should I stumble across, but this one
http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvis ... 1007.phtml
So Robin beat us to the topic 6 years ago!

I attended a tasting last Saturday where much of the range of Poliziano from Montepulciano were on show, both two Vini Nobile and some luxury Bordeaux blends. My TNs on these appear in a thread entitled "Different facets of Sangiovese" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42341 where I attempt to contrast these wines from Montepulciano with others from Tuscany and elsewhere.

I posted a note on a 2005 Carpineto Vino Nobile Riserva in a thread last week, and forgot to link it here: http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42270.

In addition, I tried this one since Bob initially started this thread:

2008 Boscarelli (Marchesi de Ferrari Corradi) Vino Nobile di Montepulciano DOCG
About 90% Prugnolo Gentile, with the rest Canaiolo, Colorino, and Mammolo. Moderately full-bodied, lightly round, moderately acidic; lightly earthy/stony, with plum and mixed berry flavors, and notes of violets. Very good.