WTN:CdP Good, Better, Best or I was burned by Beaucastel

Noland Brothers Tasting of Chateauneuf du Pape. Tom, Bob and James

Wines decanted about 90 minutes before first tasted. Then tasted again another 90 min. later.

Wine 1: Garnet with reddish orange edge. Spicy nose with various spices, esp. cloves, rich fruit including plums and dark berries. Midpalate has rich fruit, powerful tannins, and a good finish of fruit and tingly tannins. until it shuts down. Big wine that needs food – James. Tree bark, toasty oak and mushrooms on nose. Mid palate tannic and tastes of elderberries. Needs food. - Bob.

Wine 2: Garnet fading to orange with a tinge of brown at edge – looks the oldest. Expressive nose that is so complex it is difficult to describe since so many fragrances are competing for your attention. Glorious midpalate with lots of spicy fruit, earthy black cherries, red currants (James), red raspberry (Bob) and red and black fruits. Midpalate delivers what the nose promises in spades. Complex layers of expressive fruit, juicy acidity and silky tannins. Long luxurious finish that just goes on and on and on. Awesome wine – Bob.

Wine 3. Garnet and slightly darker than the other wines. Shy nose of creamy mushrooms and deep bass notes like bacon. Creamy deep pruney nose – overripe? – Bob Midpalate is tannic with a lot acidity and nice fruit. Tends to shut down, however. Petrified poop and elderberry and somewhat simple - James. Not as complex, muted flavors and more toward the earthy side – Bob.

After 90 minutes:
Wine 1: Starting to open up nicely with more fruit and a much better finish. This wine developed the most in the glass.
Wine 2: Still glorious and delicious but not much change.
Wine 3: Not much change either with perhaps a slightly fruitier midpalate.

With food (smoked gouda, summer sausage, and double Gloucester cheese with onions and chives.
Wine 1: Nice fruit expression with smoked gouda. Wonderful spiciness with sausage – really brings out the pepper in the syrah. Good with English cheese.
Wine 2: WOW with smoked gouda as the finish is even better! More earthy and spicy with the sausage. Great with the English cheese as it creates a midpalate explosion!!!
Wine 3: Good with gouda. James – Acid burst with sausage. A peppery and hotish alcohol finish with sausage –Tom. Really enhanced finish with double Gloucester.

Wines revealed:

Better Wine 1: 2007 CdP Patrick Lesec, Galets Blonds 15% abv average rating: 93 James’ wine
Best Wine 2: 2003 Domain Janasse, 15% abv average rating: 96 Bob’s wine
Good Wine 3: 2000 Beaucastel, 13.5% 90 average rating: 90 My wine. This was my 60 th birthday wine that I shared with my brothers, but they both brought better wines. Disappointing considering how good 2000 Beaucastel was supposed to be Is it over the HILL? Bob - probably.

You could be right, Tom (about the 2000 Beaucastel being over the hill), but lots of recent posters on CellarTracker think otherwise. That doesn't prove anything, but there it is. I'm hoping that they're right!

Tom, have emailed you a Beaucastel tasting on UK forum.

Compared to a 2003 and 2007, I can see the 2000 Beaucastel showing its age, but the wine is not over the hill...at least based on the bottle I had less than a year ago.

[Jenise]

Tom, sorry to say but what you had was an off bottle.

Following is a link to TNS on a vertical that Bill Spohn and I both participated in; the 2000 was my favorite of the night, so much so that I've procured some bottles direct from the winery for my cellar. I'm certain that wine could not have gone this far downhill since then.

http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26674&p=228532&hilit=Vertical+Beaucastel#p228532

[James Roscoe]

Jenise that was my exact thought. There is a lot more bottle variation out there than we really discuss.

'Petrified poop' and 'towards the earthy side' sound like Brett to me, have they beaten their famous Brett problem? Temperature of storage can cause Brett 'bloom' in the bottle, apparently.

Tom, sorry to say but what you had was an off bottle.

Following is a link to TNS on a vertical that Bill Spohn and I both participated in; the 2000 was my favorite of the night, so much so that I've procured some bottles direct from the winery for my cellar. I'm certain that wine could not have gone this far downhill since then.

http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26674&p=228532&hilit=Vertical+Beaucastel#p228532

Hi Jenise,

I stored this bottle in my wine fridge which usually ran on the cool side (50-52 F) most of the time. I thought it might be still developing to peak. I suppose this could be bottle variation or a late dumb phase too. It was definitely a nice wine but just did not compare well with the other two wines.

Someone sacrificed an '89 and '90 some years ago (presumably well-stored) for analysis, and the results were very high levels of 4-ethyl-phenol in both bottles, ie very high levels of brett. (Mourvedre appears to be particularly susceptible to Brett.) I didn't mean to cast aspersions on your storage.

Someone sacrificed an '89 and '90 some years ago (presumably well-stored) for analysis, and the results were very high levels of 4-ethyl-phenol in both bottles, ie very high levels of brett. (Mourvedre appears to be particularly susceptible to Brett.) I didn't mean to cast aspersions on your storage.

Yes, the '89 and '90 were well known for their Brett. I forget in which year Beaucastel cleaned up their Brett "problems" but 2000 might be right around the time.

Mark Lipton

'Petrified poop' and 'towards the earthy side' sound like Brett to me, have they beaten their famous Brett problem? Temperature of storage can cause Brett 'bloom' in the bottle, apparently.

Hi Oliver,

I don't think it was Bretty, at least not like any Bret that I have encountered. It was just quite shy in both the nose and finish department for a supposedly excellent wine. Bottle variation is probably the best guess from the discussion here.

'Petrified poop' and 'towards the earthy side' sound like Brett to me, have they beaten their famous Brett problem? Temperature of storage can cause Brett 'bloom' in the bottle, apparently.

Hi Oliver,

I don't think it was Bretty, at least not like any Bret that I have encountered. It was just quite shy in both the nose and finish department for a supposedly excellent wine. Bottle variation is probably the best guess from the discussion here.

Then what else do you attribute the 'poop' and 'earth' to? Admittedly 'earthy' notes can also be a function of the tannin presence, but I know of no other explanation for poop. And brett would also explain why the fruit was shy.

'Petrified poop' and 'towards the earthy side' sound like Brett to me, have they beaten their famous Brett problem? Temperature of storage can cause Brett 'bloom' in the bottle, apparently.

Hi Oliver,

I don't think it was Bretty, at least not like any Bret that I have encountered. It was just quite shy in both the nose and finish department for a supposedly excellent wine. Bottle variation is probably the best guess from the discussion here.

Then what else do you attribute the 'poop' and 'earth' to? Admittedly 'earthy' notes can also be a function of the tannin presence, but I know of no other explanation for poop. And brett would also explain why the fruit was shy.

Hi Rahsaan,

I suppose Brett is a possibility but if it was Brett, I did not really get that out of it in my tasting. The petrified poop my brother was referring too was old dried cat poop that has been in the cat liter box for a month or better and has lost most of its potency. At least that is the way he described it at the time and he has cats in his house. More of a nuanced poop, so to speak, than one that indicates Brett. Plus I did not get that out of the wine, hence my opinion that it was not Bretty.

More of a nuanced poop, so to speak, than one that indicates Brett. Plus I did not get that out of the wine, hence my opinion that it was not Bretty.

Nuanced brett is still brett.

Brett also has a tendency to flatten other flavors, even at moderate levels. In addition to tasting like cat poop.

The 2000 is only just hitting stride and will go on another decade. You either had a badly treated bottle (maybe a strike had it sitting on a loading dock in the sun) or it was a matter of bottle variation.

Oliver mentioned the 89 and 90. I've had horribly bretty bottles and I've had absolutely clean bottles, so there is barrel to barrel variation that might also explain differences in experience.

Since I tasted this wine several times over a few hours with my brothers, I will put in my two cents. The wine really did not have brett that I could detect. It also did not taste cooked or corked. It was more like an over the hill Cote du Rhone. The wine really did not change much from opening to 5 hours later. This wine had little nose and a very muted palate. If we had not had a CDP theme, I never would of guessed this wine as CDP. Off bottle, maybe but it did not live up to its reputation, name, or price. It actually reminded me of a 1998 retrospective done at mini-cool in 2008 where the 1998 Beaucastel was very disappointing. I was really looking forward to tasting this Birthday wine with my brother Tom but we still had fun. If nothing else, it gave us lots to talk about. Once again Happy Birthday Tom