WTN: CowanCllrs Isa SauvBlanc LakeCnty '10..(short/boring)

Susan & I tried last night w/ our oven-roasted sunchokes & parsnips:
1. CowanCllrs Isa LakeCnty (Skin frmtd SauvBlanc; 13.1%; www.CowanCellars.com) SantaRosa 2010: Med. gold/orange color; rather earthy bit figgy/waxy/parsnip/Kansas haymow slight spicy/dried mango very unusual/interesting nose; rather tart slightly tannic some waxy/figgy/haymow/herbal fairly earthy/spicy unusual flavor; fairly long tart bit interesting waxy/figgy/spicy/haymow slight stoney/earthy finish w/ slight tannic bite; not as tannic as I expected; a low-key/quiet/calm/elegant very attractive white w/ no varietal character I could identify; some like dry Furmints I've had; quite a fascinating/interesting white at a fair price. $27.00
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And a wee BloodyPulpit:
1. This is, I believe, JimCowan's first release. Many of us have followed FloridaJim's wine posts on the WineBoards forever...shortly after AlGore invented the InterNet. He helped SteveEdmunds make wine for a yr or two afore succumbing to the siren call of winemaking and launching his own brand. I keep hearing rumors of his Syrah, but it's apparently not released yet. Or I've been snubbed.
I am not a very big fan of LakeCounty SauvBlancs. I find them on the earthy side, not a lot of perfume or fragrance, rather charmless and clunkky. With this Isa, Jim has managed to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. It was not much like I'd expected. Many of the skin-contact white wines I find rather on the tannic/bitey side. Though an atypical level of tannin, for SauvBlanc, was there; I thought it was well-managed. Some of the skin-contact whites I've had have been downright weird. This was not at all such a beast. It was very difficult to describe what I was finding and my wine vocabulary was not up to the task. Sometimes I use the descriptor "interesting" for a wine when I'm struggling to find some redeeming features in it. Not so w/ the Isa. I kept going back to it whilst we were preparing dinner again and again, trying to find words to describe what I was finding. Oops..it's almost gone afore the sunchokes are finished. Anyway, this was a wine I really liked a lot. Folks who worship at the altar of terroir and varietal typicity might not be so taken with it.
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2. Jim's response to my follow-up questions:
Isa is my grand-daughter's nick name.
Nothing was done to reduce extraction although the wine went through a 5 day
cold soak which is supposed to be a more gentle extraction technique. Also, note
that the wine is 13.1% alcohol so the level of alcohol as a solvent was less
then other wines with higher alcohol.
But it was fermented to dry on the skins and pressed off to barrel where it sat
on the gross lees (and was stirred) until just before bottling.
The intent/objective . . . is a little more difficult.
I like "orange" wines but have some difficulty with those that are oxidized,
whether completely or partially. So I made this reductively, as one would red
wine. By doing so, the character of the variety is not recognizable; not in
color, smell or taste. So if you look for varietal "correctness," you won't find
it. Rather, the savory character of the grape comes to the fore and the cat-pee,
grassy elements are eliminated. I was hoping to get a wine that would match
Diane's cuisine, that is, mostly vegetarian but with lots of flavor. I think we
did that.
BTW, serve it at room temp.; the cooler it is, the more prominent the acidity.
Also, a bit of splash decanting will get some air in it - and it needs it; such
is reductive wine-making.
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3. Skin-contact/orange wines: There is no definition of "orange" wines, a la Gravner/Radikon that I find adequate. These are typically white/gris wines that are made w/ extended skin contact and pickup up an orange or rose-like cast. Sometimes a little weird in color. I prefer to use the term "orange" wine for those skin-contact wines that are made in a somewhat oxidative style. But that's not everybodies definition of "orange".
There seems to be a lot (well....some) interest in skin-contact white/orange wines in Calif, and some in amphorae, a la Georgia/Friuli. The wave of the future?? I don't think so. I'm not sure that these winemakers have a clear vision of what kind of wine they're aiming for when they embark on using these techniques. When Jin started making this wine, is this the result he expected?? He'll have to answer that one. Are these winemakerrs adopting these techniques because they think they can make a better, or more interesting, wine...or just to be doing something different. I'm clueless, as usual. Story of my whole life.
Some of these Calif orange wines have been weirder than hell. Some oof them have been harshly tannic/astringent/bitter. Some offer up little or no pleasure. Some may age into something really interesting. It's, to me, an exciting scene to watch unfold there in Calif. Followed it from the very start, I did/I did.
Tom

thanks Tom. I look forward to trying- I have 4 sitting in cellar crying out for release. Just not sure what to open with (in that. not sure you note helps )
While I may occasionally bow towards Altar of Typicity, I have no expectations for Lake County, so no issues!

I find myself imagining that one of the attractions for those who decide to skin-ferment white grapes is that there is no body of experience, to speak of, being brought to bear on one's way of thinking about the wines, no inherent expectations, the way there is with most of the wines we're used to thinking about. So a winemaker can make it up as he or she goes along. It's possible that someone could end up doing something really distinctive and memorable, but so far it seems that no one can really say "boy did they screw that orange wine up!" because it's not so easy yet to say with any certainty what's better than what, nor even to predict with any real degree of certainty what one will end up with when the wine gets into the bottle. One key thing, too, is that the curiosity level of the wine consumer in a certain segment of the market is sufficient that the producers of these wines can reasonably expect to sell at least some of them. That seems really significant.

I find myself imagining that one of the attractions for those who decide to skin-ferment white grapes is that there is no body of experience, to speak of, being brought to bear on one's way of thinking about the wines, no inherent expectations, the way there is with most of the wines we're used to thinking about. So a winemaker can make it up as he or she goes along. It's possible that someone could end up doing something really distinctive and memorable, but so far it seems that no one can really say "boy did they screw that orange wine up!" because it's not so easy yet to say with any certainty what's better than what, nor even to predict with any real degree of certainty what one will end up with when the wine gets into the bottle. One key thing, too, is that the curiosity level of the wine consumer in a certain segment of the market is sufficient that the producers of these wines can reasonably expect to sell at least some of them. That seems really significant.

Yup, Steve...that's pretty much my take on the situation w/ skin-ferment/orange wines. It's pretty much uncharted territory. Jim could have taken those
grapes and made yet another undistinguished LakeCnty SauvBlanc. Instead he chose to try something different..and it worked. As long as there are
enough weirdos out there to buy these wines, they will continue to try them. I think your analysis is pretty much spot on.
Tom

Steve's analysis strikes me as a market oriented view, that is, one starts with the idea that a taster can not say the wine is bad and that there are enough folks seeking the odd to sell what one makes.
Although I think there are elements of that at play, I also think that one can start from the place where "sameness" is the problem and this form of winemaking avoids it.
For me, it was the desire to run away from sameness coupled with the need to find wines that match what we eat. Meat and potatoes are in my rearview mirror and our dinners are now mostly vegetables and lighter fare. But they do not lack for flavor because Diane is quite inventive. So I wanted something that could standup to strong favors but did not overwhelm with tannin, etc. Skin-fermented whites seemed the ideal choice.
It is, I must admit, also fun to experiment with the genre for the very reason Steve mentions.
But I will also admit that I had no thought of the market when I made the first one (or the Isa, for that matter). In this market that was probably naive but there it is.
Glass half full, if you will . . .
Best, Jim

Jim, my comments were about the genre, but most definitely not about you; you're one of a kind! And you do good work!

Steve's analysis strikes me as a market oriented view, that is, one starts with the idea that a taster can not say the wine is bad and that there are enough folks seeking the odd to sell what one makes.
Although I think there are elements of that at play, I also think that one can start from the place where "sameness" is the problem and this form of winemaking avoids it.
For me, it was the desire to run away from sameness coupled with the need to find wines that match what we eat. Meat and potatoes are in my rearview mirror and our dinners are now mostly vegetables and lighter fare. But they do not lack for flavor because Diane is quite inventive. So I wanted something that could standup to strong favors but did not overwhelm with tannin, etc. Skin-fermented whites seemed the ideal choice.
It is, I must admit, also fun to experiment with the genre for the very reason Steve mentions.
But I will also admit that I had no thought of the market when I made the first one (or the Isa, for that matter). In this market that was probably naive but there it is.
Glass half full, if you will . . .
Best, Jim

So, Jim.....you had these SauvBlanc grapes. What led you to believe if you did a skin ferment, rather than just another LakeCnty SauvBlanc, it would result
in a wine that would be more suitable to your needs, that would have more savory character?? Maybe the tannins would lead it to more savory character?
Other skin-fermented SauvBlanc or whites you've had?? That Edmunds guy is very much market-oriented...which is why he appointed PamAnderson his marketing
director. But, clearly, the market was a small factor in your decision.
To me, the whole skin-fermented thing for whites is a fascinating area to explore. You can apparently destroy/obliterate the conventional varietal character
and get something entirely new. Who knows what mysteries lurk in the skins of them/there white grapes?? Only TheShadow knows!!
When I taste Pax' Bastardo, or Arnot-Roberts Trosseau, both skin fermented,
you get a very interesting wine that I have no idea is representative of those grapes varietal character or not.
And then you throw in the oxidative element...you've got a whole nuther game.
Thinking about it, most red wines are skin-ferment grapes. But when you remove the skin-extract part, as in a White Pinot or a White Zin; presto...no varietal
character. The mirror opposite of w/ white wines. Fascinating subject.
Tom

Tom,
I think Pam is a recent addition to his staff; I don't remember her in 2006 - and I would.
The market is certainly a factor now when I try to figure how many tons of SB to buy but when I started the first batch in 2008, I was really just seeing what I could do. I was motivated by other orange wines I had tasted although I did not like the oxidation I found in some so I wanted to try doing one without. And the point was really to try to get something that wasn't the same as everything else and that might be a good match with our new dinner regime.
I did not do one in 2009 and then got some beautiful fruit in 2010 so I took another shot.
Interesting thoughts on the non-skin reds; I'd never thought of it that way.

Steve,
I knew that and thank you.
Actually, I have talked to several winemakers since I started this project who have inquired about the process and I suspect they have a market analysis as one of the factors they consider. I just wasn't that forward thinking.
Mine was a "leap, and the net appears" kind of attitude.
Maybe you could loan me Pam when I do tastings?
Best, Jim

Tom,
I think Pam is a recent addition to his staff; I don't remember her in 2006 - and I would.

Yeah...recent. And I keep asking Steve to invite her along when we have lunch together. But no dice. Probably because
he knows he doesn't need to do any marketing w/ me. I just dutifully keep buying the stuff he produces...another one
of the SteveEdmunds sheep.

Interesting thoughts on the non-skin reds; I'd never thought of it that way.
Steve,
I knew that and thank you.
Actually, I have talked to several winemakers since I started this project who have inquired about the process and I suspect they have a market analysis as one of the factors they consider. I just wasn't that forward thinking.
Mine was a "leap, and the net appears" kind of attitude.
Maybe you could loan me Pam when I do tastings?
Best, Jim

Yeah. When I taste Adam's Novy Blanc de Pinot Noir, I keep struggling to find PinotNoir character in it...and fail.
The whole idea of skin-ferment whites intrigues me. After I tasted Pax' WindGap Bastardo/GrayRiesling (very exotic...TN posted) this weekend, made w/ skin contact,
the thought occurred to me to me, what other no-name/ugly duckling/rejected white grape varieties are out there that might make an interesting wine if done
w/ skin contact. What would a skin-contact ThompsonSeedless be like?? Beats heck outta me.
I'd like to see some (nutso) winemaker take some Chard, Riesling, GWT, SauvBlanc, CheninBlanc, etc; and make one batch w/ skin-contact, one batch w/o.
So we could do the side-by-side comparison. See what you'd get. It'd take Pam & KimKardashian both to market them wines I suspect.
Tom

Thinking about it, most red wines are skin-ferment grapes. But when you remove the skin-extract part, as in a White Pinot or a White Zin; presto...no varietal
character. The mirror opposite of w/ white wines. Fascinating subject.

No sure about that statement. Granted my experience with skin-fermented whites is limited to one which is about the same as the number of white zins I have had but it seems to me that our collective wisdom on varietal character is based upon a large sample size of traditionally made red and white wines. Not sure that makes it varietally correct - just traditionally correct. Given the same experience set we may learn that their is noticable varietal character when the grapes are processed in a manner different than dictated by tradition. Ultimately we may learn that there is more than one correct varietal character that is dependent upon processing and maybe even "gasp" ripeness level.

Thinking about it, most red wines are skin-ferment grapes. But when you remove the skin-extract part, as in a White Pinot or a White Zin; presto...no varietal
character as we are accustomed to recognize it. The mirror opposite of w/ white wines. Fascinating subject.

No sure about that statement. Granted my experience with skin-fermented whites is limited to one which is about the same as the number of white zins I have had but it seems to me that our collective wisdom on varietal character is based upon a large sample size of traditionally made red and white wines. Not sure that makes it varietally correct - just traditionally correct. Given the same experience set we may learn that their is noticable varietal character when the grapes are processed in a manner different than dictated by tradition. Ultimately we may learn that there is more than one correct varietal character that is dependent upon processing and maybe even "gasp" ripeness level.

Yup, Brian....varietal character as we are uccustomed to recognize it. Maybe, w/ sufficient training and enough examples to try We could learn to recognize varietal
character of PinotNoir made w/o skin contact and PinotNoir made w/ botrytis, as well. Tradition drives a lot of what we recognize as varietal character.
Tom

“Uncharted”? - Most likely for thousands of years (before the days of “temperature controlled” vats, fining and filtering, centrifuges and juice separators) both reds and whites were fermented with “skin-contact”.

Salute

“Uncharted”? - Most likely for thousands of years (before the days of “temperature controlled” vats, fining and filtering, centrifuges and juice separators) both reds and whites were fermented with “skin-contact”.

Salute

yes, but no charts! The story must not have seemed as though it needed telling, since, most likely, no one imagined that way of making wine might ever change much, no?

One last (maybe) thought. The Lodi area seems to have taken on Iberian varieties as their
own and really making some interesting wines from those varieties.
I've been singularly underwhelmed by the white wines that come out of LakeCnty. There have been a few
Roussannes and GrenacheBlancs that I thought were nice....but just that. They seem to think SauvBlanc
is their flagship white...but I've just not got that.
Maybe LakeCnty should make skin-contact/orange wines as there signature/flagship wine. Jim has shown them the light.
Now maybe they better done see'd it and make it their own.
Tom