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WTN: 80s Bordeaux

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WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Salil » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:41 am

Thoughts from a dinner of older Bordeaux in midtown Manhattan last night. Theme was less heralded vintages of the 80s (81, 83, 85, 87 and 88) with some really lovely wines in the lineup.

N.V. Agrapart & Fils Champagne Les 7 Crus Blancs de Blancs Brut
Nice way to start the evening, combining bright lemon and pear fruit with fresh baked bread and yeasty flavours, not overly complex but polished and light on its feet with a sense of precision and refreshment to the flavours.

1994 Château Pape Clément Blanc
Corked.

Flight 1: Right banks
1985 Château Canon
Some debate whether this was corked; I didn't find TCA but it didn't come across as a representative bottle (certainly a much worse showing than my last experience with this last year at Dale's Canon vertical) with stewed fruit, not much depth and little freshness.

1985 Château Belair
Starts out slightly bitter and awkward, showing some stewed tomato fruit framed by savoury tobacco and earth; with time it pulls itself together as the fruit deepens and gains a sense of freshness. Quite enjoyable with air, though not particularly complex.

1988 Vieux Château Certan
Drinking superbly now with a seamless combination of dark fruited flavours, cedar, tobacco and leathery funk and a faint green herbaceous element that adds a sense of freshness here. The tannins are pretty much resolved and this has a lovely polished texture that makes it all too easy to drink.

Flight 2: 83 Margaux
1983 Château Rausan-Ségla
Not a lot of depth to the aromatics which are a bit one-note, but it's another matter on the palate - lots of depth, layers of dark fruit that are remarkably youthful framed by cedar and a sauvage meaty element conveyed with a sense of power and polish. Very nice.

1983 Château Brane-Cantenac
Great aromatics with tobacco, worn leather, floral elements and gentle red fruited elements combining into a lovely scent. It doesn't show the same depth or character in the mouth though, where it feels slightly thin and tired at first, gaining some weight with air but still remaining fairly one-note to taste.

Flight 3: 85s
1985 Château Cos d'Estournel
Impressive at first, full of fresh, youthful dark fruited and cassis flavours framed by savoury earthy and tobacco flavours - but with some air it starts to fade a bit as the fruit loses intensity and a faint volatile element emerges.

1985 Château Gruaud Larose
Firing on all cylinders. Layers of rich red and dark fruited flavours, tobacco, cedar wood and that leathery Cordier funk combining into a seamless and incredibly aromatic whole. The tannins here are fully resolved and there's bright acidity underneath giving the flavours a sense of real freshness and precision. A fantastic bottle.

Flight 4: PLL vertical
1981 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande
In a great place right now with a core of dark fruited flavours framed by savoury tobacco and earthy elements and a vivid forestal greenness that brings a top Loire Cab Franc to mind. There's a sense of real polish and finesse to the texture with tannins fully integrated and bright acids keeping it very lively and fresh, great stuff.

1983 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande
Wasn't a huge fan of this - dominated by a powerful roasted espresso note that others enjoyed, but I found it overwhelmed the fruit and developed nuances that the '81 and '88 showed.

1988 Château Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande
A really great showing - incredibly aromatic, combining forestal greennery, tobacco, fresh dark fruits and savoury earthy and graphite elements into a seamless, complex whole. There's amazing depth and balance here with the tannins and fruit suggesting there's still plenty of time ahead for this, but it's truly outstanding right now.

Flight 5: First growths
1981 Château Margaux
This doesn't have the complexity or depth I'd expect (particularly following the Pichon Lalandes) but it's all about purity and finesse and very enjoyable to drink, showing bright floral and cedary elements around a core of fresh plummy and red fruited flavours. There's a sense of real polish and gloss to the texture, tannins fully resolved and it's a lovely wine, though overshadowed for me by some of the PLLs and the Moutons.

1987 Château Mouton Rothschild
Wow, wow, wow. Incredibly aromatic; layers of fresh dark fruited and cassis flavours framed by mature cedar, tobacco and leathery notes with spicy and sandalwood elements giving it an exotic character. There's amazing depth here, but also a sense of remarkable purity and finesse - it's not a heavyweight like the '88 and it conveys its flavours with a lightness of touch and an elegance that brings a great Burgundy to mind. Fantastic wine and my favourite of the night (I think the table's overall favourite as well).

1988 Château Mouton Rothschild
Tight and brooding initially, this across much more primary than the '87 with rich dark fruited flavours framed by savoury graphite and cedary elements and a spine of firm tannins beneath. With time it really unravels to show a lot more aromatic depth as that spicy Mouton exotic quality emerges and the tannins soften a little. There's a sense of real power and density here, and I suspect it'll be quite amazing with time.

Flight 6: 88s
1988 Château Gruaud Larose
The same elements as the '85 we had earlier in the night - bright red fruit, tobacco and Cordier funk, but not showing the same depth or power as the '85 did, with the tannin making it feel a bit more austere. Very enjoyable with some air, though a bit disappointing given my expectations for mid 80s Gruauds.

1988 Château Pape Clément
Pretty much everything I look for in an older Graves - layers of red and dark fruits, cigar smoke, gravelly earth and dried tobacco; medium weight with some tannins still lurking on the back end, but very enjoyable with some air. Glad I have a few of these.

Flight 7: Mystery bagged wines that turned out to be 80s Cali Cabs
1985 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon
No idea if this was the Napa or Alexander Valley bottling, but I wasn't a huge fan - came across rather tired with the fruit listless and fading, and a patina of oak still very noticeable.

1980 Beaulieu Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon Georges de Latour Private Reserve
Overly ripe tomato and red fruited flavours that come across both stewed and roasted with a heavy vanilla seasoning. Not my type of wine at all.

Dessert:
1988 Château Lafaurie-Peyraguey
Very decadent and sweet with luscious apricot and ripe tropical fruits drenched in caramel, orange marmalade and vanilla. It's quite enjoyable, though coming across a little too heavy and lacking in acidity. No thoughts on the '07 Coutet that accompanied it, other than it was incredibly primary and a bit one-note right now.

Fun night with some real standouts (the Moutons, the 81 and 88 PLL and the 85 Gruaud were particularly great), thanks all.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by James Roscoe » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:15 am

Nice report Salil, as always. I wish I lived in such a rarefied atmosphere!

Have you ever had an aged wine from California you like as well as one from Bordeaux? I am curious.

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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Salil » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:32 am

James Roscoe wrote:Have you ever had an aged wine from California you like as well as one from Bordeaux? I am curious.

A handful from the 70s, particularly the 1974 Chappellet Cabernet and a 1975 Ridge York Creek Petite Sirah.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Dale Williams » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:35 pm

Thanks for notes- this was Ian's thing? He sent me invite but didn't work for me. Sounds fun.
85 Canon sounds off as you say.
I've always liked the 83 R-Segla.
But I've always liked the 83Pichon Lalande, too!
I like the '87 Mouton. You know the story, right? Supposedly when the Baron died just after the vintage (winter of 87-88) they blended in some '86 (I think you are allowed to blend in 5%, but they went higher) to ensure his final vintage was worthy.
Your opinions seem about right on re 85 and 88 Gruaud, nice to see good notes on 88 Pape
You like 74 Chappelet? I'll try to remember to open my last one for you.

James, I'm a Bordeaux nut, but wines (especially from pre- 1985) like Phelps, Heitz, Mayacamas, Mondavi, etc can certainly rival most Bordeaux. Old BV GdlTs can be great, but they seemed to have partially lost way earlier than most, 50s and 60s seem better than 1973 on.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by James Roscoe » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:52 pm

Dale Williams wrote:James, I'm a Bordeaux nut, but wines (especially from pre- 1985) like Phelps, Heitz, Mayacamas, Mondavi, etc can certainly rival most Bordeaux. Old BV GdlTs can be great, but they seemed to have partially lost way earlier than most, 50s and 60s seem better than 1973 on.

Dale can you elaborate on what you mean? Too much new oak? Picking to late? I find I like California wines and Bordeaux wines. I just wonder why those with more experience seem to prefer the Bordeaux style?
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Dale Williams » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:42 pm

James, I just meant that a lot of Cali cabs in 60s and 70s (and many into mid-80s) seems to have been made in a structured, perhaps austere, style that has mostly disappeared (Mayacamas, Togni, etc and a few others seem to have persevered). I don't think it's as much a question of oak as late picking/high alcohol, "tannin management", etc. to make wines more attractive young. Lots of great wines from the 70s- not just expensive/iconic wines like '74 Heitz Martha's or Mondavi Reserve, but in last few years I've had great results from wines like the aforementioned Chappelet, various Charles Krugs, base Mondavis, Burgess, etc.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Salil » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:41 am

Dale Williams wrote:Thanks for notes- this was Ian's thing? He sent me invite but didn't work for me. Sounds fun.
85 Canon sounds off as you say.
I've always liked the 83 R-Segla.
But I've always liked the 83Pichon Lalande, too!
I like the '87 Mouton. You know the story, right? Supposedly when the Baron died just after the vintage (winter of 87-88) they blended in some '86 (I think you are allowed to blend in 5%, but they went higher) to ensure his final vintage was worthy.
Your opinions seem about right on re 85 and 88 Gruaud, nice to see good notes on 88 Pape
You like 74 Chappelet? I'll try to remember to open my last one for you.

James, I'm a Bordeaux nut, but wines (especially from pre- 1985) like Phelps, Heitz, Mayacamas, Mondavi, etc can certainly rival most Bordeaux. Old BV GdlTs can be great, but they seemed to have partially lost way earlier than most, 50s and 60s seem better than 1973 on.

Yup, Ian's event - sorry you couldn't make it, was a lot of fun.

Wasn't aware of the story re. the Mouton - that final vintage was certainly damn impressive.

Like the 88 Pape a great deal - bought a few from the secondary market recently, opened one a couple of weeks ago at home and it showed very well (if still a bit young and in need of a few more years). Then again I think I just like most old (traditionally styled) Graves in general...
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Matthew Latuchie » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:42 pm

James Roscoe wrote:When are we going to see you in DC? Let us know!


salil - stop avoiding James' question!!

:D
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by James Roscoe » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:20 pm

Matthew Latuchie wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:When are we going to see you in DC? Let us know!


salil - stop avoiding James' question!!

:D

Well done Matt! :mrgreen:
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Salil » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:38 pm

I'll probably be in DC before Matt makes his long promised trip to CT. :P

In seriousness, probably mid November before Thanksgiving.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by David Lole » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:07 pm

There's some bottle variation with the 1983 Pichon Lalande. My last few have been quite spectacular. Only one or two (of many bottles) before that have been a little/quite feral. Never had one with a roasted coffee character, though. Thanks for the comprehensive report, Salil. Excellent notes, as usual.
Cheers,

David
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Tim York » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:50 am

Salil wrote: a vivid forestal greenness that brings a top Loire Cab Franc to mind.


I've long been looking for descriptors for this essential, for me, quality in left bank Bordeaux particularly and this is a very good one. This Pichon Comtesse may have had more that most but, for example, I found enough traces of it in the ripe vintage Clerc Milon on which I posted recently. Many "modern" tasters think that this is a fault and Rollandised wines seem to have lost it.

Great tasting and great notes.
Tim York
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Brian Gilp » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:02 pm

Salil wrote:Flight 6: 88s
1988 Château Gruaud Larose
The same elements as the '85 we had earlier in the night - bright red fruit, tobacco and Cordier funk, but not showing the same depth or power as the '85 did, with the tannin making it feel a bit more austere. Very enjoyable with some air, though a bit disappointing given my expectations for mid 80s Gruauds.



I have had this wine 5 times over the past dozen years and it's shown some bottle variation especially in the amount of funk but also in other areas. I have never had the 1985 so can't compare but your description seems spot on. However I did get one bottle that was stunning. Hoping the last one I have is also a stunner.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Patrick Martin » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:19 pm

I've only had it twice, but the '83 P. Lalande has really wowed on both occasions. FWIW, north of 95 pts. Too bad it's so expensive these days...
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Matthew Latuchie » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:32 am

Salil wrote:I'll probably be in DC before Matt makes his long promised trip to CT. :P

In seriousness, probably mid November before Thanksgiving.


an early november trip to the Constitution State is in the mix...details to follow.
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Salil » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:24 am

Bravo!
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Re: WTN: 80s Bordeaux

by Andrew Bair » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:01 pm

Hi Salil -

Thank you for the great writeup as usual. Amazing how well you manage to drink! I haven't had many Bordeaux from the 1980s, so it is always good to good to hear how these wines are showing in case I do have a chance to try/buy any of them.

Glad to see the Agrapart note as well - I've been meaning to try one of their Champagnes soon.

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