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WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

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WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jenise » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:46 pm

We went wine tasting in the Finger Lakes region of New York last week. We didn't end up visiting that many wineries, as our fascination with the Corning Glass Museum and the Gorge at Watkins Glen basically killed one of the two days we'd allotted to this activity. Which was too bad, because it really took most of the first day to get our palates calibrated to the highly acidic local style, even for someone like me who favors that. But overall it was an enlightening experience that showed the potential for riesling and gewurztraminer in this area and the struggle to nail down the tannins needed to make red wines like pinot noir and cabernet or other vinifera like chardonnay interesting.

I took detailed notes but find, looking back, that it would be tedious for anyone else to read them were I to type them all up here. Better that I give an overview of the experience at each, though I might refer occasionally to the letter grade I give each in these circumstances.

Heron Hill
Overall, the wines were competent and well-made. We tasted chardonnay, pinot blanc, several rieslings and pinot noirs, cab franc and blaufrankisch. The reisling(s) and reserve blaufrankisch showed best, where the pinots and cabernet franc were a bit wan and in need of more varietal character.

Dr. Konstantin Frank
Although historically speaking this is one of THE wineries to visit while here, after our visit I can truthfully aver that I would never EVER send a serious wine person to this winery. Outside the building, one is herded into groups and then sent to the next available bar, like cows to a milking machine, for a very robotic and impersonal tasting designed to move you to the cash register as fast as possible. They pour a selection from their rather long list of products and you do not get to choose the wines you taste. That treatment cast a pall over the wines we couldn't shake, but in spite of that I did like the brut sparkling wine well enough to buy a few bottles for in-room entertainment later, plus the dry gewurztraminer which I thought the best of all the wines poured. A day or so later I chilled and opened that brut sparkler ($25) with our friends, and I couldn't believe I'd liked it. It was more Extra Dry than Brut, and just lacked any sign of the three true champagne grapes it was made from. I hope I'm not similarly disappointed with the gewurz (which I brought home). All the reds poured were below average. (P.S.: Dr. Frank has died and his grandsons are now running the joint--it shows.)

Ravines Cellars
This winery validated our disappointment with the previous two wineries because the wines were markedly better, although they did also provide a Tasting-Room-Mistake-Hall-of-Fame moment we'll never forget. We liked the 09 Dry Riesling, loved the 08 chardonnay (in which 30% of the grapes are dried, amarone-style, to beef up the body), found the two hybrid 'Keuka Village' wines delightful little puppy wines, and quite enjoyed the 09 Cerise (PN and Lemberger), 08 Cab Franc, 07 Meritage and the 07 Merlot. My notes on the 08 Pinot read "Finally! Real Pinot!". Basically, we liked everything but two wines, a skunky Sauv Blanc and a pinot noir rose (saignee) that provided the previously referred-to Moment: while pouring this, our server warned us not to pick up our glasses until he gave permission. Once all the glasses had something in them, he instructed us to clip two fingers over our noses, like clothespins, and then sip in unison without smelling. He then blamed the putridity on the glassware. I KID YOU NOT. Bottles of the chardonnay and pinot were purchased and consumed elsewhere along the trip, and lived up to our memory of them in the tasting room.

Anthony Road
Our pourer at Ravines sent us here to tast something in particular, but which was sold out. So we tasted a dry riesling and a chardonnay, both of which had the simplistic lemon-lime flavors of Yellow Tail whites, and left.

Red Tail Ridge Winery
Where some wineries use the word 'lemberger' and others call it 'blaufrankisch', this winery strangely had one of each. When we asked if the fact that the 08 was the former and the 09 the latter indicated a move toward standardization, our server told us "I don't know!" That was the answer to several other questions we asked, too, about how the wines were made. So we didn't learn much, but I found too much RS and malo in the chardonnay, some wierd vinyl aromas on the lemberger, and the remaining wines just average. Interestingly, though, this winery does make a Teroldego, a grape we didn't encounter anywhere else. They also made a sparkling red with it that we didn't get an opportunity to taste.

Damiani
Here's the winery that set the highest standard for us. Most of the wines got a B grade from me, only a NV cab blend and their 09 Merlot falling shorter. Important fact: they use only French Oak and no new oak. A Chardonnay was okay but no contest for the Ravines' version. The Reislings and Gewurz were very good and the pale orangey-red pinot had the most pinot character of the trip. Verging on the only A grades I gave the whole trip were the 2010 Sauvignon Blanc, the 09 Cabernet Franc and the 08 Cabernet Sauvignon Barrel Select.

Other wines we drank while there: we couldn't visit Shalestone though everyone reccomended them highly, so ordered both their top blends over dinner one night at Dano's Heuriger, our fave restaurant of those we tried. Shalestone brings up at least some of their fruit from Long Island's more temperature zone, hence the Syrah in the Synergie, which with cabernet and merlot results in beet, cherry and tomato flavors. Sensuous mouthfeel, but no tannins. We also enjoyed (and in a vote, favored) the more-Bordeaux styled blend, Harmonie, a mix of Cab, Cab Franc and Merlot that showed some dill (american oak?), dust, black currant and spice.

A King's Garden non-vintage cabernet sauvignon was overripe and oxidized, an 07 Lamoreaux Landing Cabernet Franc was too dilute and green (especially for one of the better recent vintages), and a Glenora sparkling brut had soda pop sized bubbles and Andre flavors--seriously BAD.

I might throw in a mention that in Vermont we tasted the local product too. A 2010 East Shore Vineyard Marquette was the best of the lot, but not so much because it was so good but because the Snow Farm Vineyard Leon Millot and Boyden Valley Big Barn Red we also bought were so strange.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Carl Eppig » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:20 pm

Jenise, you should have tasted some the off dry Rieslings at Anthony Road, they are among the best this side of the Atlantic.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Brian Gilp » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:00 pm

Shame about Dr. Franks. Back in the day it was well worth the stop for both the wines and the tasting room. The Rkasatelli(sp?) was a great wine at great price. If you ever had the chance to taste with Ginger you would not forget it.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Joe Moryl » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:12 pm

Thanks for your impressions, Jenise. Just a few comments and observations.

Nothing wowed me at Heron Hill on my last visit. I thought the best wines were those from the Ingle Vineyard (actually over on Canandaigua Lake) and a winery-only Pinot Blanc, one of the few in the FL. I think they have had a recent change of winemaker, so I'm not sure if most of what I had is from the new or old regime.

You need to cut Dr. Frank some more slack! Were you there on a weekend? They get huge crowds and don't really push you to buy wines. I don't like the "you can have either the dry riesling or the gewurztraminer" thing either, but if you linger a bit after the tasting you can probably taste just about anything they make by chatting with the taster - maybe this doesn't work when they are really jammed. I really like the 2010 dry riesling and the gruner veltliner was pretty promising for a first try. The pinot can be good (they have some old vines for the FL) but I think it would be better if they would take a few more risks in the winemaking (it might be a bit clean and over filtered). If you find yourself on that side of the lake again be sure to stop in at Keuka Lake Vineyards - very interesting wines, especially if you want to see what vingnoles can do!

Funny about your visit to Ravines: I found the '10 rose and SB to be flawed by what I thought was too much sulfur or some other off aromas. Otherwise I liked what I tasted and the personnel are usually knowledgeable, or at least well trained. Don't understand why a talented winemaker like Morten Hallgren would let such flawed wines out (oddly, I had the rose at home before my visit and it was fine).

Anthony Road also has a very fine winemaker and the wines are usually well above the Yellow Tail level, especially the whites and reserve reds. Problem is they are often sold out of things I'm interested in. I often wind up finding them in the shops. Red Tail Ridge is just getting going and I think they have serious aspirations, but I too haven't been impressed with the tasting room staff. This is a common problem, but finding enough wine geeks to staff the rooms on busy weekends isn't possible in such a rural area. The owners have invested a lot in the vineyards and a LEED certified winery. The $10 unoaked chard is nice everyday sort of quaff.

Damiani is doing great work and they are near the top for reds in the area. Strangely enough, I wound up leaving their tasting room with a riesling and a gewurtz on my last visit, so I guess the whites are pretty good as well. Shalestone's wine reflect the quirky personality of Rob Thomas, the owner/winemaker. I've never heard of them using any Long Island grapes - that struck me as a total surprise. Maybe they had some supply problems in the cool '08/'09 vintages? People do try to grow Syrah in the FL, but I'm not convinced they should try. Red Newt made a Syrah mostly sourced from Sawmill Creek vineyards, almost across the road. That side of Seneca is one of the best and warmest zones for ripening reds - sometimes nicknamed the "banana belt".

If you like pinot noir, pick up a bottle from Heart & Hands. In a few short years they have shot to the top of the FL PN producers, and they don't even have their own (limestone rich) vineyards up and producing yet.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jenise » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:26 am

Carl Eppig wrote:Jenise, you should have tasted some the off dry Rieslings at Anthony Road, they are among the best this side of the Atlantic.


I erred in not mentioning the best, for me, riesling of the trip: a dry Herman Wiemer that we ordered at dinner the first night we were there (Stonecat). That we didn't end up with the time to visit that winery was one of the mistakes of the trip; we'd planned to, but by the end of that day we only had time to literally race to one winery, so we went with Damiani because we knew the road and were certain we could get there in time.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jenise » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:00 am

Joe Moryl wrote:Nothing wowed me at Heron Hill on my last visit. I thought the best wines were those from the Ingle Vineyard

That was our impression too; but at least initially I was leary about my ability to rate these wines. Our palates were fresh but it was our first winery tasting in the Finger Lakes and we didn't have any context but the excellent Ravines chardonnay and Wiemer Rieslings, plus so-so Lamoreaux Landing CF and Salmon Run Meritage we'd tasted the night before.

You need to cut Dr. Frank some more slack! Were you there on a weekend? They get huge crowds and don't really push you to buy wines.


It was a Monday! And no they didn't push us to buy so much as they wanted us to move on quickly so that they could get the next group in. The pourer wasn't interested in chatting with anyone during the gang-tasting so we didn't presume he'd want to do so after. It was just a lecture, a presentation, with no interactivity encouraged. Keuka Lake Vineyards (what a beautiful place Keuka Lake is, btw) was reccomended to us, but after Dr. Frank and HH we went to lunch (loved the Tavern in Hammondsport) and in the interest of time decided to head north on the east side of the lake.

Don't understand why a talented winemaker like Morten Hallgren would let such flawed wines out (oddly, I had the rose at home before my visit and it was fine).


We're not familiar with Morten but certainly had the same thought, especially re the rose. If you have to tell people to plug their noses when they drink it....

Re Anthony Road, they only poured us three wines, a dry reisling ("not so dry, lemon-lime, cheese" say my notes, a chardonnay I found simplistic and a jug second-pressing pinot noir that I actually found pleasant and on target even if very very light. They had a live band in the tasting room and a lot of people, and we felt like party crashers. I don't think that helped the experience. :)

Shalestone...I've never heard of them using any Long Island grapes - that struck me as a total surprise. Maybe they had some supply problems in the cool '08/'09 vintages?


That's what our server at Dano's said, most likely in reaction to my exclamation over the syrah in the Synergie. He could have been wrong.

If you like pinot noir, pick up a bottle from Heart & Hands. In a few short years they have shot to the top of the FL PN producers, and they don't even have their own (limestone rich) vineyards up and producing yet.


We did learn of this and had conspired to try their wines while there, but we did not find them on restaurant wine lists and didn't have time to stop at the winery on our way out of town, or maybe it's that they weren't open on weekdays.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Victorwine » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:41 pm

Hi Jenise,
Shalestone is only a “red wine” producer and grower (that’s their philosophy), and I believe all his wines are labeled “Finger Lakes”. So technically 85% of the wine has to be produced from grapes grown in the Finger Lakes. (Of course 15% of any red wine grape could possible come from “Downstate”, or anywhere else for that matter).
Martha Clara a Long Island east end (North Fork) wine producer and grower gets Riesling from “Upstate” (I believe Seneca Lake). Produced a wine from the fruit and labeled it a “New York State” Riesling and won the 2011 NYS Governors Cup.
Big thing right now on the east coast is a lot of winemakers, are beginning to branch out and produce their own labels of very small lots of “artesian” wines. Not only promoting their region as a “premium” wine region but New York State as a “premium” wine producing region.
When is the last time you had a red from Long Island? I’m sure you were following the thread started by Oliver, some really good stuff there. Some of the vines on Long Island are now just approaching “maturity”. Back in the early 90’s when I really got seriously involved in home winemaking it was much easier to obtain grapes from Long Island (some of these might have been only 7 (possible younger) to 10 years old vines. Today it’s almost impossible for me to obtain fruit from the East End). For the first few years I always made a barrel of Long Island wine but the “bulk” being from California grapes. I found the Long Island reds to have what I called a “LI funky earthiness” to them. Just something I didn’t get in my California reds. As far as the soil/vine relation thing, I think since the soil itself is not static and is dynamic, it could be viewed as a “living organism”. The vine itself being a “deep rooting” plant and a living organism, the soil/vine relationship is a “dynamic” one which has a “time dimension”. As the vines mature and their roots penetrate deeper into the soil the soil/vine relationship is slightly altered its forever evolving.

Salute
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jon Leifer » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:25 pm

Jenise: just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary. In no particular order..I think Wiemer is the best of the FL wineries, year in , year out. I tasted through Ravines line recently and was not impressed..Oh well..for my money, Damiani is the best red wine producer in the FL's, also like his Sauv Blanc. Heart and Hands PN(and reisling) quite good, probably the best PN in FL's.
I like Lamoreaux's whites, no clue why they persist in making reds tho..Next Lamoreaux red that I taste and like will be the first one. When my wife and I first visited Seneca Lake a number of years ago, I really enjoyed my visit to Anthony Road..However, subsequent visits have not been as successful and I have not been impressed with their recent wines..Dr Frank is kinda good news/bad news. some of the wines are quite nice and quite affordable and readily available at retail..The "experience" tasting at the winery can be quote offputting and I usually advise friends who want to go there to get there early in the morning , to avoid being part of the cattle call..
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by James Dietz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:45 am

Jenise.. thanx for your report. I read Summer in a Glass about the region a few weeks back. The early chapters are very good, and Ravines is one of the places I would want to visit based on the book. Wiemer is another. If you haven't read it, it might be worth doing so.. your take on the region is more cautious
Cheers, Jim
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by JC (NC) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:08 am

I have to agree with you on the quality of the Hermann Wiemer Rieslings. I liked the Dr. Konstantin Frank Pinot Noir when I visited there but I'm sure it varies from vintage to vintage. I had some nice Chardonnays in the Finger Lakes and liked one of the Lembergers I tried.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Joe Moryl » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:59 pm

Regarding Lamoreaux Landing's reds: they do a better job with the whites but I often like their Cab Franc as well. I recall having several good bottles of the 2005 and picked up some 2007 on my last visit (maybe I'll need to try it at home). They also make an unoaked quaffing version called T23 which can be good, although the last vintage I tried was shrill. They are pretty hopeless with Pinot Noir.

Speaking of reds, Wiemer has finally started to produce some decent reds that are not Germanic (in the bad sense). For a long time I would say that Riesling was their only can't miss wine, but recently they have a very strong lineup across the board. Even the cheap red blend (Field Cuvee) was quite tasty.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Brian Gilp » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:43 am

Wiemer made an absolutely lovely pinot in 1995. The barrel sample was by far the best red I had tasted from the FL. Unfortunately, prior to bottle the wine was sterile filtered and it stripped all the character out of the wine. Huge disapointment. I had purchased a case based on the barrel sample and drank it over a number of years but time did not improve the wine and it never recaptured what it lost when filtered.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Anthony Ianni » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:02 pm

Too bad about Red Tail. Had the opposite experience and found the wines decent. Funny. Our experience at Ravines was weird. The person we had was indifferent and basically ignored us. Luckily the wines were much better including the PN. Happily the person who checked us out was really cool. Made up for it. Do like Shalestone as well. Weimer is a given as is Red Newt for your next visit. Agree with poster on Heart and Hands. Good stuff. For food go to Stonecat on the east side of Seneca. Fun place. Thanks for the notes. Love the FLX.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Joe Moryl » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:45 pm

Brian Gilp wrote:Wiemer made an absolutely lovely pinot in 1995. The barrel sample was by far the best red I had tasted from the FL. Unfortunately, prior to bottle the wine was sterile filtered and it stripped all the character out of the wine. Huge disapointment. I had purchased a case based on the barrel sample and drank it over a number of years but time did not improve the wine and it never recaptured what it lost when filtered.


Yeah, I think I know what you mean about the '95. A few years ago Hermann retired and passed the reins to Fred Merwarth; it seems to me that the reds have been improved since then (I would say since about the '05 vintage). Not sure what, if any, changes have been made. I think it is the natural impulse of small growers/winemakers in the FL to be very safe when it comes to their choices, since many are probably not far removed from insolvency. This may not be the best thing for quality when it comes to PN - e.g. several old time producers totally pooh-pooh the idea that PN might be better off unfined and unfiltered. Some of the region's best PN is coming from producers who war relative upstarts: Heart & Hands, Damiani, Ravines, etc.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Andrew Bair » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:21 pm

Hi Jenise -

Thank you for the notes. I am sorry to read about your negative experience with Dr. Frank. Both times that I went there in the mid-2000s, they were very friendly and willing to answer my questions. Plus, the overall quality of their white and sparkling wines was very good. Of course, I managed to go during the week, which allowed me to avoid the weekend crowds and the tour buses.

I also had good experiences visiting Ravines and Heron Hill - with the latter, their dessert wines clearly stood out to me. I have been to Anthony Road once, but did not sample their full lineup since it was right before they closed. Hermann Wiemer should absolutely be one to visit if you are ever back in the area, although things have changed there since I last was there five years ago.

Since I haven't been in the Finger Lakes area for four years, I have not visited any of the newest wineries like Heart and Hands or Damiani. I'd like to go back to the area sometime in the next couple of years, depending on my schedule. Given that I am going elsewhere in New York State next month, maybe I will see if I can find a bottle from one of these producers to try.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Paul B. » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:54 pm

Jenise wrote:I might throw in a mention that in Vermont we tasted the local product too. A 2010 East Shore Vineyard Marquette was the best of the lot,

Marquette is the newest of the new-generation red hybrid varieties, and is in very high demand among small wineries across the continent. I wish we had some wineries in Ontario making varietal Marquette, but it may be too soon for that. I did try one from Quebec a few years ago, and it had a beautiful deep ruby colour (as all hybrid reds tend to have), a lithe structure, and substantial grippy tannins. Over all, it was much like a Gamay, but more astringent. Can't wait to try more Marquette.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jenise » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:50 pm

Paul B. wrote:Marquette is the newest of the new-generation red hybrid varieties, and is in very high demand among small wineries across the continent.


Gamay's a good call, Paul, if you throw in some extra celery. Have to say, it lacked the verve and appeal of the hybrid Keuka Red they poured at Ravines or even the Cascade Mountain Cabernet-Marechal blend we tasted in NY (I didn't mention that one in my notes), which is about all I have to compare it to.

Glad to see you in this thread: while you're here, can you tell me about Leon Millot? That was sure a strange one.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Jenise » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:59 pm

Andrew Bair wrote: Both times that I went there in the mid-2000s, they were very friendly and willing to answer my questions.


I'm sure they would be the same now on a slow day. But as it was, they have devised a streamlined method to process as many tourists as they can in the shortest time possible, and the experience is not good.

Since you mention Heron Hill, I would like to give them props for giving the opposite experience to that of Dr. Frank. They have a lot of pourers and essentially each one handles a taster or small group of tasters. Our hostess was a very friendly and knowledgeable schoolteacher named Agnes, who made it clear once she saw me taking notes and behaving more seriously than most that despite her initially saying we could only choose X number of wines each to taste that she'd pour us anything we asked for.
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Re: WTN: Finger Lakes Visit

by Paul B. » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:33 pm

Jenise wrote:while you're here, can you tell me about Leon Millot? That was sure a strange one.

Actually, Leon Millot is one of the hybrids that I haven't ever tried - mainly because no winery in Ontario grows it. Leon Millot is a sister seedling to Foch. Some interesting things on Wikipedia (and I did not know about the award):

"Léon Millot ripens early, and has high resistance against fungal diseases. It is therefore suited for cultivation in colder climates. It gives powerful wine with some foxy aromas.
Léon Millot is cultivated in small amounts in Switzerland (on 9.35 hectares (23.1 acres) in 2009[3]), Alsace and Canada. In August 2011, a Leon Millot varietal wine produced by a vineyard in the Finger Lakes region of New York State won the prize for "best red wine" in the "New York Wine and Food Classic," sponsored by the New York Wine and Grape Foundation and open to all of New York’s 307 wineries.[4]"

Link to the page

I have tried Lucy Kuhlman, another Foch / Millot relative: the wine was dark, like all red hybrids, but it smelled of pickle juice ... :lol: Very strange wine, even to my palate :shock:

However, Foch is a lot more mainstream in its traits, while Marquette as far as I know, is the most vinifera-like in its apparent traits.

Celery, or even pickle aromas, could conceivably come from infected containment vessels.
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca

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