WTN: NAP#2...(long/boring)

Tuesday (8/23) NAP#2
I've long had a fondness for the Nebbiolo grape ever since DarrellCorti first started selling them to me back
in the early '70's. But more it evolved into sorta a love/hate relationship. I love the aromatics of the grape.
It can be ethereal at times. The perfume has a distinct floral character of lilacs and violets and dried rose petals.
It can sometimes smell of pungency and fresh road tar and licorice. And often those components can be intertwined.
Especially when they have some age on them, they can be incredible and complex. But it's when it hits my palate that
the problems begin. In their youth, the high acidity and tannin levels can be fierce. So you're always admonished
to give them time to age. Sometimes yes/sometimes not. Sometimes the evolve into something ethereal and magical.
Sometimes they never shed those fierce tannins. So I've become sorta conflicted when it comes to Piedmonte Nebbiolo.
I've long felt that Calif could do a better job w/ Nebbiolo than the Piedmonte. I'm still convinced that that's
the case. PinotNoir was once considered a temperamental and problem grape in Calif. That thought was long ago put to
rest. We can do the same w/ Nebbiolo I feel.
The first Calif Nebbiolo was produced in 1982 by NickMartin at MartinBros wnry in PasoRobles, using some old
Nebb out of a vnyd in the SanJoaquinVlly. It was a pretty decent Nebb, especially considering it's lowly provenance.
In the early '80's, Nick planted Nebbiolo Michet in his EastSide Paso vnyd and produced the first one in 1986. It was
actually pretty darn good Nebb....not great Barolo..but good/tasty wine that spoke of Nebbiolo and was the first
indication that Nebbiolo had a future in Calif.
Since those early years, there has been a quiet/under-the-radar interest in Calif in growing Nebbiolo. I think
much of that interest was spurred by a comment that Parker once made at a talk afore some winemakers in which he
flat-out declared Nebbiolo to be a failure in Calif. So some of the interest in Nebbiolo is driven by contrarian winemakers.
Several yrs ago, I was visiting with both EmilioCastelli/GreenVlly/RRV and KenMusso/ElDorado and suggested that
it might be a good idea to get some of the Calif Nebb producers together and taste the wines and talk about them.
So, in August 2009; we got together at WindGap wnry for our Inaugural NAP (Nebbiolo Advocates & Producers). This
was reported after that event (www.grape-nutz.com/recent.html).
Since that first meeting, things have been sorta quiet on the Calif Nebbiolo front. More producers are giving
Nebbiolo a shot. Last Spring, Ken thought it was time to have another NAP#2, to which I readily agreed. He agreed
to host it at Silenus Wnry, a small custom crush facility on the North outskirts of Napa where he makes his
DueVigne wines, including a Nebbiolo and Dolcetto from his ElDorado vnyd. After some false starts, we got a date
set in Aug the week after the FamilyWinemakers tasting at FtMason and started inviting. It was on a rather short
notice, so many of the winemakers were unable to attend.
Attendees were:
DawnMartella/KarmereWnry/Plymouth/winemaker
KenZinns/HarringtonWnry/SanFrancisco/cellar rat
BryanPastini/Freemont/home winemaker/Nebbiolo fan
EmilioCastelli/CastelliCllrs/GreenVlly/RRV/owner/winemaker
Ken&AnneMusso/DueVigne/ElDorado grower/winemaker
Pietro Buttitta/Rosa d'OroWnry/Kelseyville/winemaker
JoeHealy/BuonaVitaCllrs/RRV
Ron&BarbaraHoule/DueVigne/winemaker
Scott Meadows/Silenus vineyards
Erika
Brad Smith/Silenus vineyards/production manager
TomHill
It was a very casual gathering in the outside courtyard at Silenus under pretty warm temperatures. We just pulled
together two picnic tables, sat outselves down, introduced ourselves, and started talking Nebbiolo. After that,
we started pulling corks, passing bottles, and talking about the wines. My sketchy notes on the wines we tasted
are below. Such as they are. After over an hour of this high-level/intellectual discussions, we adjourned to some
light dinner fare and popped a few more corks. And then we adjourned into the dead of the night.

Castelli MayBlush Nebbiolo DryRose GreenVlly (12.5%) 2010: Pale copper/orange color; flowery watermelon/spicy
slight earthy nose; dry lean slight tannic spicy/watermelon/juicy rather tart finish; a clean bright attractive
rose for food in a Provencal style.
Madrona NebbioloRose ElDorado (13.5%) 2010: Darker copper/salmon color; pleasant/simple slight floral/spicy/
earthy nose; bit soft maybe off-dry light floral spicy flavor w/ little tannins; not the lean/angular style of
the Castelli and a bit on the simple side, but pleasant enough.
DueVigne Nebbiolo MussoVnyd/ElDorado (14.4%; + Barbera) 2007: Med.color; slight herbal rather floral/lilacs
quite pretty fragrant nose; bit tannic/hard floral/lilacs/perfumed slight earthy more lush/Calif-style fairly tart
flavor; long tart fairly lush bit tannic/hard floral/lilacs finish; lots of pretty floral character; still needs
several yrs.
DueVigne Nebbiolo MussoVnyd/ElDorado (14.4%; 8% Barbera) 2008: Slightly lighter color; tighter bit alcoholic
lovely floral/lilacs/violets some perfumed/fragrant nose; more tannic/acid bit tighter lovely floral/lilacs/violets
flavor; long fairly tart/tannic attractive floral/lilacs finish; clearly a bit tighter than the '07 and needs more age;
not quite as rich/lush & more lean than the '07.
Rosa d'Oro Nebbiolo Riserva ClearLake/LakeCnty (13.8%) NV(75% '08/25% '09): Light color w/ slight bricking;
slight funky/earthy/pungent slight herbal/roasted chile/pungent/tarry light floral/lilacs slight alcoholic nose;
rather lean/tannic/hard light floral/lilacs some pungent/herbal/earthy/tarry flavor; med.long light floral/lilacs
some pungent/herbal/earthy/tarry light floral finish; needs more age; shows more of the pungent/tarry side of
Nebbiolo than most of the others; maybe road-tar Lite; interesting Nebb in a different style.
Karmere Empress LaPetiteMorgan Nebbiolo ShenandoahVlly (14.3%) 2007: Med.light color; bit alcoholic some
briary/ShenandoahVlly/berry light lilacs/floral nose; soft fairly lush light tannic briary/berry some floral/lilacs/
perfumed flavor; med. soft/ripe lush berry/briary/floral/lilacs nose; speaks of ShenandoahVlly/briary mostly and
quietly of Nebb.
Karmere Empress LaPetiteMorgan Nebbiolo ShenandoahVlly (14.6%) 2008: Med.colr; stronger more fragrant/perfumed/
aromatic strong blackberry/briary light floral/lilacs nose; bit more hard/tannic strong briary/berry light floral/
lilacs soft/rich/lush perfumed flavor; med.long some hard/tannic strong briary/blackberry light floral/lilacs/
perfumed slight pungent finish; speaks of ShenandoahVlly but more Nebb on the palate; needs some age.
BuonaVitaCllrs Nebbiolo RRV (14.8%) 2007: Med.light color; lots of toasty/oak slight floral/lilacs/perfumed some
licorice/pungent attractive nose; soft fairly lush/ripe some floral/lilacs/licorice/pungent somewhat toasty/oak
bit tannic flavor; med.long some toasty/oak light floral/lilacs/aromatic light pungent/licorice finish w/ modest tannins;
rather Calif in style but speaks of Nebb.
Castelli Nebbiolo Estate/GreenVlly/RRV (13.3%) 2007: Med.color; bit pungent/earthy/dusty lovely floral/fragrant/
lilacs/violets/Nebb very light toasty/oak slight tarry nose; tart/lean/acid some pungent/herbal/licorice/tarry strong
floral/violets/lilacs/perfumed fairly lush bit tannic/hard flavor; very long strong floral/lilacs/violets rather tart/
lean light licorice/tarry fairly tannic finish; needs 2-5 yrs age yet; lovely floral aromatics.
Harrington Nebbiolo PasoRobles AJB&LunaMata vnyds/WestSide (14.3%; 30% whole cluster) 2008: Med.light color; ripe/
lush some Paso/jammy light floral/lilacs/Nebb slight licorice/pungent rather perfumed nose; softer/lush bit plummy/
jammy/Paso light floral/violets/lilacs modest tannins light oak flavor; long bit softer/lusher floral/violets/Nebb
light toasty/oak some plummy/jammy finish w/ light tannins; lots a pure fruit and some jammy Paso character.
Harrington Nebbiolo PasoRobles (14.1%) 2009: Med.light color; light toasty/oak quite fragrant/perfumed/lilacs/violets/
floral aromatic lovely nose; tarter bit more lean/tannic/structured quite fragrant/floral/violets light toasty/oak flavor;
very long floral/violets/lilacs bit hard/tannic/tart finish; the jammy Paso character is beaten down by the lovely/
perfumed fragrance.
Gang of Six plus One Nebbiolo PasoRobles (14.5%; 50% whole cluster) 2009: Med.light color; fairly floral/perfumed some
Paso/jammy light pungent/smokey nose; tart/lean light floral/lilacs bit pungent/smokey/tarry finish w/ modest tannins;
med.long tart/lean some tannic light floral/perfumed light smokey/pungent/tarry finish; needs more age; more bass notes
than the Harrington version.
Giornata Nebbiolo LunaMataVnyd/PasoRobles/WestSide (14.5%) 2007: Med.color; rather ripe/overripe/jammy/Paso light
smokey/pencilly/cinammon some grapey/ripe little floral nose; soft/lush/ripe plummy/grapey/jammy/Paso some smokey/
pencilly/oak very light floral/lilacs slight tannic flavor; med.long ripe/jammy/Paso/plummy/grapey light pencilly/oak
finish w/ light tannins; seems on the ripe side and the Paso terroir trumps the Nebb aromatics.
Giornata Nebbiolo LunaMataVnyd/PasoRobles/WestSide (14.5%) 2008: Med.color; some pencilly/smokey/oak less jammy more
floral/lilacs/perfumed nose; bit less soft light floral/lilacs slight plummy/grapey light pencilly/oak flavor w/ some
tannins; long bit tart/tannic somewhat floral/lilacs/perfumed finish; speaks more of Nebb and less of Paso/jammy
terroir.
Novy Nebbiolo StolpmanVnyd/SantaYnezVlly (14.1%) 2006: Med.color; strange funky/wet dog fur light toasty/oak some
pungent/licorice very light floral/lilacs/grapey nose; softer/lusher some pungent/licorice light toasty/oak very light
fruity/grapey/floral bit funky/earthy some tannic/hard flavor; med.long bit funky/earthy slight grapey/floral/lilacs
some toasty/oak bit tannic finish; not nearly as good as last one I had and seems a bit off.
Palmina Nebbiolo SantaBarbaraCnty (14.9%) 2006: Med.light color; slight tarry/pungent bright/floral/cherry/cherry
cough drops/spicy bit pencilly/oak nose; slight tarry/pungent light cherry/cough drop/floral bit tannic/hard flavor;
med. light cherry/cough drop/floral slight tarry/pungent/earthy some tannic/hard finish; almost a tutti-frutti or
Pinot-like style to this wine and not a lot of Nebb character.
Palmina Nebbiolo HoneaVnyd/SantaBarbaraCnty (14.3%; Michet) 2006: Med.color; rather strong pungent/oak/smokey
some floral/lilacs bit earthy/dusty light pungent/tarry attractive nose; rather tannic/hard/tart strong pungent/smokey/oak
fairly floral/lilacs/violets/grapey bit road tar/pungent/earthy flavor; long tannic/hard/angular light floral/lilacs/
fruity some smokey/pungent/oak finish; needs some age; bit on the wirey/sinewey side compared to the Sisquoc.
Palmina Nebbiolo RanchoSisquocVnyd/SantaBarbaraCnty (15.5%; Michet) 2006: Med.color; some smokey/pungent/licorice
light road tar fairly floral/fragrant/lilacs/violets/grapey some toasty/smokey/oak bit alcoholic nose; softer rather
ripe/grapey/floral/lilacs bit licorice/pungent/tarry some smokey/oak rather hard/tannic flavor; long some grapey/ripe
light floral/lilacs light pungent/tarry/licorice some smokey/oak slight alcoholic fairly hard/tannic finish; some like
a Sfursat w/o the earthy Valtelline character; very interesting Nebbiolo.
ClendenonFamily Nebbiolo BriccoBuonNatale BienNacidoVnyd/SantaMariaVlly (14.1%) 2003: Med.light color; lovely
floral/lilacs/violets/licorice/perfumed some smokey/pungent slight tarry very aromatic nose; somewhat hard/tannic/lean/
acid very floral/lilacs/violets/perfumed slight tarry/licorice flavor; very long hard/tannic/tart/lean/austere very
floral/violets/lilacs/perfumed bit tarry/licorice/pungent finish; needs age and should go for more than 10 yrs or so;
probably the most varietally correct and my favorite of the Calif Nebbs.
Madrona Nebbiolo ElDorado (14.5%) 2008: Med.color; earthy/dusty gout de terroir nose w/ little fruit or fragrance;
soft earthy/dusty slightly fruity flavor; med. soft earthy/dusty lightly fruity/grapey finish w/ slight tannins;
not much Nebb character and mostly speaks of ElDoradoCnty.
NadaFiorenzo Barbaresco (13.5%) 1996: Med.light color w/ some bricking; rather tarry/pungent/classic Barbaresco
very slight floral/violets fruit nose; tight/tart/hard/tannic rather pungent/tarry light floral/fruit flavor; long/
lingering tarry/pungent/road tar slight floral/lilacs some tart rather tannic/hard/lean finish; not a lot of fruit
left but classic Barbaresco tarry character; needs age to take down the tannins but not sure what will be left.
L&L Nebbiolo mandolina SantaBarbaraCnty (14.3%) 2007: Med.light color; fairly grapey/lush slight floral/aromatic
bit earthy nose; soft/lush/ripe grapey/fruit bit soupy slight floral bit toasty/oak flavor; med.short grapey/fruity/
lush light toasty/oak finish w/ slight tannic bite; pleasant enough SBC red but a bit on soft/soupy side and not
speak a lot of Nebb
Ca'Nova Bocciolo DOC: CollineNovaresi Nebbiolo (13.0%) 2006: Med.color; lovely floral/lilacs/violets fairly rich/
lush light tarry/pungent nose; bit hard/tannic lush/floral/lilacs/violets ripe light road tar/pungent flavor; very long
ripe/lush strong floral/violets/lilacs/rose petal somewhat hard/tannic bit tarry/pungent finish; needs some age;
if Calif winemakers want to make Italian Nebb, this one is it; my favorite of the Italian Nebbs by far.

and from my FriuliFest notes in July:

Ramsay NorthCoast Nebbiolo 1992: Med.light color; lovely floral/lilacs/Nebb bit tarry/earthy/pungent
old Gattinara complex nose; tart still some tannic/hard lovely floral/Nebb light tarry/pungent slight faded
rose petal/old Gattinara complex flavor; a lovely complex old Nebb/old Gattinara nose but still rather hard/
tannic on the palate and not likely to outlive them.
IlPodere Dell'Olivos SantaBarbaraCnty Nebbiolo 1988: Med.red color w/ no bricking; lovely floral/lilacs/violets
slight smokey/tarry quite complex rather old Gattinara-like nose; lovely smooth light cedary/oak/pungent quite
floral/lilacs/violets/Nebb very slight tannic complex flavor; long floral/violets/lilacs/Nebb slight pungent/
tarry smooth complex finish w/ slight tannic bite; a really lovely example of an old Nebbiolo much like an older
Gattinara.

And a few thoughts from the BloodyPulpit:
1. I thought all of the above Nebbiolos were sound/well-made wines. They spoke, with varying degrees of strength, of
Nebbiolo. In some cases, the terroir (SantaBarbara, ShenandoahVlly, ElDorado, Paso) tended to sublimate the Nebb
character. It is not at all obvious to me that any region in Calif can lay claim to being a superior site for
the variety. At least not yet.
My easy favorite of these Nebbs was the Ca'Nova CollineNovaresi. Of the Calif Nebbs,
my favorite was probably the Clendenon, primarily because of the aromatics. But it has the tannins on the palate
you expect from Nebbiolo and I see little reason it won't easily go out 10 or even 20 yrs. This btl was a gift from
MichaelWild at BayWolf who wanted me to toss it into the mix when he heard what we were up to. Close behind were
the Castelli, DueVigne, and the two Harringtons.
2. The Calif Nebbiolo future: I think many of the folks out there buying wine share Parker's perception that Nebbiolo
is a loser in Calif. I think that perception is flat-out wrong. But it will be a tough challenge to turn that ship
around. As AdamLee suggested at NAP#1, Nebbiolo is probably going to remain a niche market for some time and that
Italian restaurants are probably the best place to target for the market.
People who are aficianodos of Piedmonte Nebbiolo seem to have pretty closed minds and if it doesn't taste like
Barolo/Barbaresco, they're not likely to accept the Calif renditions. If Calif Nebb winemakers want to look to
Italy for a model, I've long suggested the Novara Hills, Lombardy, and the Valtelline are where they should look.
Not Barolo/Barbaresco and the Langhe. But the key is to get people to just try the wines, with an open mind,
and not have any preconceived notions as to what a Calif Nebbiolo MUST taste like.
3. I think most of the participants at NAP#2 left w/ a great deal of enthusiasm for Nebbiolo in Calif. KenMusso
wants to put together a mailing list and do a quarterly Newsletter, an ambitious but worthy goal. I can see this
effort starting out much like the ViognierGuild, just a gathering of winemakers. And look at where that effort
took Viognier and Rhone varietals in Calif. I hope these get-togethers can become an annual event. Maybe...someday..
even a FtMason tasting event??
4. The moniker NAP sucks big time. A better, catchier name must be come up with for this sorta rag-tag group of
winemakers. Maybe we can get some of the best minds in Science to work the problem.

Wow - quite a lineup there. Whoda thunk there was that much Nebbiolo coming out of California these days? Had no idea that Karmere and Madrona were making this. Not surprised that both were more expressive of place than variety, but still.

You're right about that "NAP" thing. Gotta get a better acronym than that!

I think that Jim Clendenen would corroborate that the '88 Nebbiolo (which is from Lucas and Llewellyn Vineyards in Los Alamos) includes a big dollop of Petite Sirah, for color and tannin.

I'm sorry I've deleted my own post.

Hi Tom -

Thank you for the notes on the Cali Nebbiolos. I've had the 2001 Clendenen Buon Natale, and enjoyed it; haven't tried the Palminas, yet, despite them being readily available over here. Glad to hear that there are more successful California Nebbiolos out there than I would have expected, even without my being a RMP diehard.

Interesting to see the Ca'Nova in the lineup - I tasted a few of their wines with the owners of Grandi Bottilgie in Torino (I recall they'd just taken distribution for Ca Nova). Certainly good value and certainly some ambition. We've still got a bottle of their 2003 Ghemme, which I'm keen to open up before we head over to stay in Ghemme.

... and always interesting to read how other countries take to this grape - some seemingly going for the typical dry red wine @ 14.5%, whilst others being braver and risking a little more varietal character to come through. Perhaps Parker, by suggesting the wine has no hope in the region, may be doing the wines a long-term favour, in that there's not likely to be a market for super-charged versions, but that a core of winemakers may then seek the more elegant, ethereal wines. In doing so, I think the wine will have a chance to mark a clear 'point of difference', that can get lost if the ripeness/intensity is turned up.

It's certainly be interesting to follow developments

regards
Ian

Interesting to see the Ca'Nova in the lineup - I tasted a few of their wines with the owners of Grandi Bottilgie in Torino (I recall they'd just taken distribution for Ca Nova). Certainly good value and certainly some ambition. We've still got a bottle of their 2003 Ghemme, which I'm keen to open up before we head over to stay in Ghemme.

I'd never had a wine of theirs before, Ian. I was rather impressed.

... and always interesting to read how other countries take to this grape - some seemingly going for the typical dry red wine @ 14.5%, whilst others being braver and risking a little more varietal character to come through. Perhaps Parker, by suggesting the wine has no hope in the region, may be doing the wines a long-term favour, in that there's not likely to be a market for super-charged versions, but that a core of winemakers may then seek the more elegant, ethereal wines. In doing so, I think the wine will have a chance to mark a clear 'point of difference', that can get lost if the ripeness/intensity is turned up.
It's certainly be interesting to follow developments
regards
Ian

Barolo/Barbaresco/Langhe do what they do. Those are not particularly my favorite renditions of Nebbiolo. I prefer those coming from further
north in Piedmont and those from the Valtelline.
I think Parker is pretty irrelevant to those winemakers passionate about Nebbiolo in Calif. And I don't think they're exactly searching for a "style"
that should be Nebbiolo in Calif, and certainly not trying to emulate Barolo/Barbaresco. I think they're approaching the grape with an open mind
and just see what kind of good wine they can make from the grape. If Nebbiolo speaks with a cacophonous voice in Calif, so be it. It's fun watching it play out.
Tom

Interesting to see the Ca'Nova in the lineup - I tasted a few of their wines with the owners of Grandi Bottilgie in Torino (I recall they'd just taken distribution for Ca Nova). Certainly good value and certainly some ambition. We've still got a bottle of their 2003 Ghemme, which I'm keen to open up before we head over to stay in Ghemme.

... and always interesting to read how other countries take to this grape - some seemingly going for the typical dry red wine @ 14.5%, whilst others being braver and risking a little more varietal character to come through. Perhaps Parker, by suggesting the wine has no hope in the region, may be doing the wines a long-term favour, in that there's not likely to be a market for super-charged versions, but that a core of winemakers may then seek the more elegant, ethereal wines. In doing so, I think the wine will have a chance to mark a clear 'point of difference', that can get lost if the ripeness/intensity is turned up.

It's certainly be interesting to follow developments

regards
Ian

14.5 is common these days in the Langhe, I'm not sure that this level of alcohol suggests 'turning up the ripeness' in California. I'd like to see a bit less alcohol all over these days, personally, and as Tom points out that's one of the benefits of the northern Piedmontese appellations and the Valtellina. Unfortunately the winemaking is often deficient in these areas, but that can easily change.

Common pretty much all over the world these days Oliver, though I believe 14.5% is now officially 'elegant' in Australia (and 'weedy' in Napa Zins? ).

Joking aside, like many regions, 14.5% would have been very rare/unusual in the past in Piemonte, but agree it's less unusual these days. A dangerous direction IMO with Nebbiolo, whose delicacy can be much of it's charm and where alcohol burn or fumey-ness can really risk the balance. It's no simple linear scale though (i.e. not 12.5 = weedy; 13.5 = good; 14.5 = overripe).

I'm keen that people continue to push different styles & whilst I like Piemontese nebbiolo, I'm open to tasting other interpretations (and it could be that Australia and USA markets will naturally seek a riper style). However there is the risk that Tom mentioned, that varietal character can be obscured, resulting in an expensive wine that might struggle to stand out from other 'dry reds'. It might still be a good wine, but it runs the risk of pricing itself out of the market.

As for deficiencies in winemaking, I'd argue that this can be 'in the eye of the beholder'. There's an interesting article on Jamie Goode's site at the moment, talking of Australian viticulture/winemaking where there is a trend to only pick when the grape tannins taste 'ripe'. What the article does well is to say how it's a matter of opinion as to whether this is right in the long run. On this occasion Jamie leans towards the opposing view, but does leave it open for both views to exist.

regards

Ian

Ian,

the point I was making was that 14.5 doesn't suggest pushing for ripeness in the Langhe, at least not according to the producers I know who I've asked about it, and it therefore obviously doesn't in California either. The CA producer of Nebbiolo who I'm most familiar with, Steve Clifton at Palmina, has produced Nebbiolo in Santa Barbara County that was IME very varietal and typical, although I would say that in some of his wines the alcohol does stick out a bit. It's a bug, not a feature, but the main thing is that the flavors aren't jammy and the tannins are not by any means squishy.

I showed an early Palmina Nebbiolo from Stolpman to a Piedmontese enologist once and he was staggered.

Ian,
I showed an early Palmina Nebbiolo from Stolpman to a Piedmontese enologist once and he was staggered.

Yup....that's what happens when you drink too much Nebbiolo..especially high-octane stuff from Calif.

You should drop into BayWolf and try the Clendenen '03, Oliver. I think Michael serves it buy the glass.
And try the Fronton d'Oro from CanaryIslands...interesting stuff.
Tom

Next time you're in town, Tom.