The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

Strange goings-on in Washington state

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

45478

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Jenise » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:54 am

Unrelated, but both interesting.

1) Southern Wines and Spirits has just purchased Seattle-based wine distributor Cavatappi. Cavatappi has one of the best books in the state for high quality, unspoofed boutique wines. I've been told that SWAS warmly claimed their interest in this acquisition was because "we want to learn from Cavatappi". Sounds like placating-with-flattery to me. No idea, going forward, whether they plan to keep Cavatappi as a division or just swallow them into their giant portfolio. Big and powerful companies who swallow up small, specialized competitors don't have a good track record on leaving well enough alone.

2) A winemaker friend was over the other night and lamenting the loss of his cab franc source--Tom uses it in his flagship Bordeaux blend which is the best such wine made in this county. It's Kestrel Winery, and their cab franc vineyards were well-established, producing very high quality fruit. Cab franc grows exceptionally well here. But Kestrel's ripped the vines out because of this important new grape they think will be the next new big thing. And that is...you're not going to believe this. Are you ready? I tell you you're not going to believe this! Drumroll please....dolcetto!

I almost dropped my glass. Dolcetto? DOLCETTO? "Let me get this straight," I said. "They rip out the cab franc because the wine-buying public doesn't buy enough of it and they replace with an Italian grape nobody's heard of? Even the Italians don't want it!" Mind-boggling.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Bill Hooper

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2001

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:46 am

Location

McMinnville, OR

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Bill Hooper » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:40 am

Sounds like 0 for 2 for the good guys to me.

Cheers,
Bill
Wein schenkt Freude
ITB paetrawine.com
no avatar
User

michael dietrich

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

246

Joined

Wed May 10, 2006 5:09 pm

Location

West Linn, Oregon

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by michael dietrich » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:09 am

I had heard this about Cavatappi end of last week. Here in my area we have a distributor called Casa Bruno. I think they shared some containers. Here in our area in Oregon we deal with Odom which is owned by SWAS. I sure hope it is not contagious.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

45478

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Jenise » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:37 am

michael dietrich wrote:I had heard this about Cavatappi end of last week. Here in my area we have a distributor called Casa Bruno. I think they shared some containers. Here in our area in Oregon we deal with Odom which is owned by SWAS. I sure hope it is not contagious.


And I'll bet you can't wait to start selling that Washington dolcetto!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11069

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by James Roscoe » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:07 pm

Don't worry southern is not a monopoly or anything. (It won't be long before there are only two or three distributors left in the US) :roll:

Who in their right mind rips up Cab Franc for Dolcetto? (and I kinda like dolcetto) :shock:
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21919

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Robin Garr » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:53 pm

Jenise wrote:"They rip out the cab franc because the wine-buying public doesn't buy enough of it and they replace with an Italian grape nobody's heard of? Even the Italians don't want it!" Mind-boggling.

I think the concern here is a high-powered marketing campaign that tries to turn Dolcetto into the next best thing by wrapping it up in sexy Italian super-models breathily cooing, "Dol-CHET-to, The Little Sweet One ... "

Stranger things have happened, and worked. :P
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11069

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by James Roscoe » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:06 am

Robin Garr wrote:
Jenise wrote:"They rip out the cab franc because the wine-buying public doesn't buy enough of it and they replace with an Italian grape nobody's heard of? Even the Italians don't want it!" Mind-boggling.

I think the concern here is a high-powered marketing campaign that tries to turn Dolcetto into the next best thing by wrapping it up in sexy Italian super-models breathily cooing, "Dol-CHET-to, The Little Sweet One ... "

Stranger things have happened, and worked. :P

Carla Bruni will need to support the family somehow after the next French election. So it is all a plot! :shock: :evil:
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

11168

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Bill Spohn » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:32 pm

Dolcetto used to be a very pleasant village wine that you drank in the couple of years after the harvest, not to serious but with enough there to make it interesting. Kind of like a decent but not top range Beaujolais. It was also dirt cheap.

Then some fool must have given one of the Ityalian producers a copy or two of the Wine Speculator or Wine Advocate and all of a sudden (don't reall just what year - anyone?) we were getting 'serious' Dolcetto (dolcetti?) that was biggern brawnier, and more expensive.

There went another affordable pleasant wine, traded for a point seeking missile. <sigh>

Can't see why there is any problem with cab franc anyway. Sell it to the rubes as simply 'cab'. And I just had a really excellent Arietta that was primarily CF, and know of several other Californian examples, and it is a bigger deal than Cab sauv up here in BC. Go figure!
no avatar
User

JC (NC)

Rank

Lifelong Learner

Posts

6679

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:23 pm

Location

Fayetteville, NC

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by JC (NC) » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:23 pm

I remeber a conversation with Cecil DeLoach's son at Hook and Ladder. I was inquiring after some of the old-vine Zinfandels that DeLoach used to produce. One was still being bottled, but one of my favorites had been ripped out to plant Pinot Noir.
no avatar
User

Brian Gilp

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1440

Joined

Tue May 23, 2006 5:50 pm

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Brian Gilp » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:24 am

I can't imagine that any winery would make a decision to rip out producing vines and replant with something that has no track record. That makes no sense. I have to assume there is more to the story such as a test plot of Dolcetto that they really like or a backlog of unsold Cab Franc grapes. Sounds to me like there is more to the story.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

45478

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Jenise » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:24 pm

Robin Garr wrote:I think the concern here is a high-powered marketing campaign that tries to turn Dolcetto into the next best thing by wrapping it up in sexy Italian super-models breathily cooing, "Dol-CHET-to, The Little Sweet One ... "

Stranger things have happened, and worked. :P


I don't quite agree. Sexy super models could coo 'Cabernet Franc', too. :) But therein might lie the problem; don't pull out the grapes, just change the name. Since the problem is not the good, informed wine-buying public eschewing the wines but the fact that the UNinformed public ONLY buying the most-familiar Cabernet, Merlot and Syrah (from, I might add, stores who stock their wines by grape and don't have a section exclusively devoted to this one), the problem that exists for cab franc (probably regarded as Cab Sauv's lesser, unruly sister) will probably exist for dolcetto too. That which is not known is not tried.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Hoke » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:23 pm

Re 'winger and Jenise on Cab Franc. The Italians are way ahead of us. Go to northern Italy...well central and eastern northern Italy anyway...and buy a bottle labeled, simply, "Cabernet", and chances are pretty damned good you'll be getting Cabernet Franc. And a lot of the Cabernet Franc was actually Carmenere, before that grape became so fashionable again.

True story: some "brand manager/marketing" types (you know, the guys in suits who run big brands but don't know zippity-squat about wine?) were looking for a line extension for a major Italian line and told their people in Italy to come up with some "Cabernet" to add to the line.

Said Cabernet was sourced, produced and samples sent. Suits sat down in their offices and tasted: they didn't care for it too much; didn't taste like the Cabernet they knew (California bulk fighting-varietal style). Asked for different samples of Cabernet.

Different samples shipped, and tasted. Same results.

Suits flew en masse to Italy to talk to the sourcers/winemakers face to face. Sat down, explained they weren't liking the samples of Cabernet and the Italians should get with the program. One guy said explicitly, "This just doesn't taste like Cabernet Sauvignon!"

The chief Italian said, with some surprise, "Oh, you meant Cabernet Sauvignon?"
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21919

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Robin Garr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:32 pm

Jenise wrote:
Robin Garr wrote:I think the concern here is a high-powered marketing campaign that tries to turn Dolcetto into the next best thing by wrapping it up in sexy Italian super-models breathily cooing, "Dol-CHET-to, The Little Sweet One ... "

Stranger things have happened, and worked. :P


I don't quite agree. Sexy super models could coo 'Cabernet Franc', too. :)

Well, I'm on board with the rest of what you said, Jenise, but I don't think we're on the same page her. "Dolcetto" actually sounds sexy and Italian, and it really does mean "little sweet." Those are the simple things of which stupidly effective marketing campaigns are made. "Cab-urr-nay Frawnngggg" doesn't quite do that. :lol:
no avatar
User

Victorwine

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

2031

Joined

Thu May 18, 2006 9:51 pm

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Victorwine » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:42 pm

Just to expand on what Hoke wrote, in some parts of northern Italy Cab Franc is referred to as “Bordo”.

Salute
no avatar
User

Clint Hall

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

616

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:39 am

Location

Seattle, WA

Re: Strange goings-on in Washington state

by Clint Hall » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:04 pm

And in the Loire Cabernet is Cab Franc.

But say it isn't so about Cavatappi. And if it has to be so (being absorbed by Southern Wines), let's hope Peter Dow keeps on running the Cavatappi part and delivering the same high caliber selection of wines he always has. Here's one we happened to drink last night just before I read Jenise's bad news about Calvatappi. If I owned a restaurant or planned a mammoth party I'd buy Cavatappi's 2009 REMOISSENET PERE & fILS by the truckload. This utterly flawless albeit simple wine cost us twenty dollars and would put most twenty-buck entry level Pinots to shame.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: APNIC Bot, Baidu [Spider], ClaudeBot, FB-extagent, Ripe Bot and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign