Wine Impossible

It all started with my first taste of the Hart Cellar barrel sample 2010( 70% Cab Franc/30% merlot) and my recent fascination with Gordon Ramsey’s show “Kitchen Impossible”. I wonder: why do producers sell plonk?

Howie has captured the essence of the Bdx blend , all plums and cherries on the nose which carries through to the palate with a touch of blueberries. The tannins are somewhat muted, the flavors hit the front of the palate hard and lose speed as it approaches the back. A perfectly drinkable wine now, and will be interesting to see how it evolves. As I recapped it, I noticed the bottle of
Tempra Tantrum, a cheapo Tempranillo/Grenache blend from Spain that I used to make a sangria over the holiday weekend. It is plonk. The color looked like they strained it through my gardening gloves, a nose of raspberries soaked in the old ditto master mimeograph ink (this reference will be lost to those under 40, just trust me, it is not a plus). It cost 5.99 USD in Ohio, and I was robbed at that. Yes, I know these are two different grapes and regions; no, I’m not a comparing apples to pork chops, but I am considering style and substance.

In “Kitchen Impossible” Chef Ramsey usually finds a common thread of reasons the restaurants are failing: using the same old tired menu filled with out-dated and lackluster fare; skimping on quality ingredients, and/or a chef who lost or never had the skills to turn out a quality product. Is this what happens in the wine making world? Let’s not just compare Howie to a commercial producer. Howie has no overhead, no employees, no marketing to contend with, so one could argue he has the luxury of time and inspiration to hone his craft. Let’s consider someone like our own Linda Lindsay, owner of StoneWolf Winery. Linda bottles a PN under the second label “Rascal”. It is highly gulpable; could be your table wine Monday through Friday, and you’d still be happy to have a glass with the Saturday barbecue. In Ohio I can pick it up for around 10 USD. In Oregon, I think it sells for even less, and according to Linda, it is selling like hotcakes. Why do some winemakers adopt the Charles Shaw mantra of quantity over quality? Should we favor some with the benefit of the doubt that they actually believe their wine tastes good (i.e. Rombauer Zin) ? Or does it just come down to skill and passion?

I ask you, the “Gordon Ramseys” of wine appreciation,….. Why do producers sell plonk?

I ask you, the “Gordon Ramseys” of wine appreciation,….. Why do producers sell plonk?

I'm not familiar with Gordon Ramsey, so I'll leave him out of my answer, but I will type if you are comparing $10 wine to $5.99 wine, you are indeed comparing apples and porkchops. There's a significant segment of the winedrinking public who are incredibly sensitive to price and aim to go as affordable as they possibly can. It might be that they detect the difference in quality between the $6 and $10 bottles and are unwilling to pay the premium (an additional 2/3rds as much as their comparison bottle) or it might be that they can't really detect the difference and vote for getting their wine experience at the lowest possible tariff. If such consumers exist, and I'm pretty certain that they do, market economics would suggest that a producer would emerge to make a wine those consumers are willing to drink at a price they are willing to pay.

I ask you, the “Gordon Ramseys” of wine appreciation,….. Why do producers sell plonk?

Because plonk sells.

Why do producers sell plonk? It is because of the large percentage of people who know do not know what plonk is. At one time, perhaps, we all did not know what plonk was and we have the memories to prove it, but those memories only became significant after we became enlightened, or at least relatively enlightened.

JB, the old adage that 95% of all wine produced is plonk is old because it's been true for longer than either of us has been alive. It's Sturgeon's Law repackaged. In his excellent book "Reading Between the Wines" Terry Theise makes the case that there are two types of wines: ones that demand your attention and those that simply exist without placing demands on the drinker. Now he's talking about Merkelbach as an example of the latter, so it's as far removed from plonk as one can get, but extending his reasoning I can posit that there are many drinkers who don't place a lot of value on flavor and who don't pay a lot of attention to what they drink. For those people, true plonk probably suffices: it's wet, alcoholic and fruity; for many others, a "vin ordinaire" that sells for e.g. $3 and isn't flawed is going to fit the bill. The problem facing us in the US is that the markups imposed by the three-tier system make it economically difficult to produce a wine that sells for $10 retail that isn't made in a totally industrial, overcropped sort of way. If we were living in France, Spain, Italy, Austria or Germany that wouldn't be the case at all.

Mark Lipton

JB - FWIW - this wine will be the most costly wine I've ever made. $825 for the grapes plus $400 for a new barrel (that I can re-use) and I will have 35 gallons or 170 bottles. If I add $.80 per bottle for bottling costs, the wine will end up costing me about $8 per bottle to produce. I had been wanting to make a wine like this for several years and the 2010 growing season here was so good, that it was a now or never thing. The wine will continue to age in the barrel for another 6 months and I plan on bottling it in January. In contrast, whites that I make from hybrids cost less than $1.60 per bottle to make (including bottling). I need to come up with a name for this red wine.

Edit: If I was making this wine to sell commercially, I would guess that it would be another $3-4 per bottle to cover costs and that I would sell it for around $20 or so. When I first started drinking serious" wines, back in the '70s, my cousin made a statement that I've always remembered, "The difference between $5 wine and $10 wine is ...... worth it".

I ask you, the “Gordon Ramseys” of wine appreciation,….. Why do producers sell plonk?

I'm not familiar with Gordon Ramsey, so I'll leave him out of my answer, but I will type if you are comparing $10 wine to $5.99 wine, you are indeed comparing apples and porkchops. .

Keith,
Interesting to me that you see a significant differance between 5.99 and 10.00 wine. Perhaps due to living in Ohio, a three tier state, that I'm use to 5.99 wines being sold for 10.00 and just don't see much of a difference. I tend to lump any wine under 10.00 in the same boat. My frame of reference for price point is $10 and under is super cheap and count my lucky stars if it tastes good. $10-20.00 is still bargain territory, where I find the majority of my everyday wine. $20-40ish garners more attention and $50 up is "special". But, of course, that is just me...everyone has their scale of reason.

JB

I ask you, the “Gordon Ramseys” of wine appreciation,….. Why do producers sell plonk?

Because plonk sells.

Dave,
Sure it does, but why do they make it? Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine? Give me a couple of eggs and I can make you a tasty omelet or I can fry them into burnt cardboard. Which would you prefer? I'm stymied.

JB

JB, the old adage that 95% of all wine produced is plonk is old because it's been true for longer than either of us has been alive. It's Sturgeon's Law repackaged. In his excellent book "Reading Between the Wines" Terry Theise makes the case that there are two types of wines: ones that demand your attention and those that simply exist without placing demands on the drinker. Now he's talking about Merkelbach as an example of the latter, so it's as far removed from plonk as one can get, but extending his reasoning I can posit that there are many drinkers who don't place a lot of value on flavor and who don't pay a lot of attention to what they drink. For those people, true plonk probably suffices: it's wet, alcoholic and fruity; for many others, a "vin ordinaire" that sells for e.g. $3 and isn't flawed is going to fit the bill. The problem facing us in the US is that the markups imposed by the three-tier system make it economically difficult to produce a wine that sells for $10 retail that isn't made in a totally industrial, overcropped sort of way. If we were living in France, Spain, Italy, Austria or Germany that wouldn't be the case at all.

Mark Lipton

Mark, you may have hit it on the head. I know lots of wine drinkers who shop by price and color "Hmm it's red and $5.00 ..load 'er up!" I agree that many wine drinkers do not place a higher value on flavor than price. Certainly there are a bevy of wines suited to that market. My question is why would a wine maker make plonk? Even if they don't strive to make wines that "demand your attention", shouldn't they strive for wines that are pleasing? I guess I'm looking at this through rose' colored glasses...

JB

In today’s day and age can we really consider “plonk” (inferior wine) a wine category? Who’s to say that a $30 bottle of wine can’t “evolve” or “turn” into “plonk”? OUCH!!!
Just to expand on what Mark made reference too, from a marketing standpoint, there are only two categories of wines produced (1) “consumable” and (2) “collectable”

Salute

JB - FWIW - this wine will be the most costly wine I've ever made. $825 for the grapes plus $400 for a new barrel (that I can re-use) and I will have 35 gallons or 170 bottles. If I add $.80 per bottle for bottling costs, the wine will end up costing me about $8 per bottle to produce. I had been wanting to make a wine like this for several years and the 2010 growing season here was so good, that it was a now or never thing. The wine will continue to age in the barrel for another 6 months and I plan on bottling it in January. In contrast, whites that I make from hybrids cost less than $1.60 per bottle to make (including bottling). I need to come up with a name for this red wine.

Edit: If I was making this wine to sell commercially, I would guess that it would be another $3-4 per bottle to cover costs and that I would sell it for around $20 or so. When I first started drinking serious" wines, back in the '70s, my cousin made a statement that I've always remembered, "The difference between $5 wine and $10 wine is ...... worth it".

Howie, the quality in this wines shows. It would easily sell for $25-30.00 in the current market. If what you are saying holds true, then it is the cost of quality that separates the good from the plonk. I hate to rave about it too much, since the majority of the WLDGers will not have the opportunity to taste it (in spite of your legendary generosity!)

Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine?

I believe this is a more complex question than you imagine. Economies of scale, trends/fads, legal climate, vintage issues, skills, personnel, capitalization, will, access, marketing, brand, viticultural practices & equipment, vinification practices & equipment etc. etc.

Even if they don't strive to make wines that "demand your attention", shouldn't they strive for wines that are pleasing? I guess I'm looking at this through rose' colored glasses...

Concscientious winegrowers certainly do strive to make wine they themselves like, but the first obligation of any winemaker is to make a living, and for many that means growing as many grapes per hectare as they can and selling to the local negoce/cave cooperative at whatever rate they're willing to pay. Traditional winemaking methods are time-consuming and (relatively) expensive, and many people have neither the financial resources or the ambition to pursue that model.

As an example, it wasn't that long ago (late '80s) when Kermit Lynch wrote in "Adventures on the Wine Road" of the dire financial straits in which producers in the Beaujolais found themselves through lack of customer demand for their wines. One lone wolf (Jules Chauvet) preached a different tune, attracting the attention of the Gang of Four (or Five) and now there are a dozen other producers following suit. None of those producers, though, can compete with DuBoeuf either on price or on production. That's not a coincidence.

Mark Lipton

JB - FWIW - this wine will be the most costly wine I've ever made. $825 for the grapes plus $400 for a new barrel (that I can re-use) and I will have 35 gallons or 170 bottles. If I add $.80 per bottle for bottling costs, the wine will end up costing me about $8 per bottle to produce. I had been wanting to make a wine like this for several years and the 2010 growing season here was so good, that it was a now or never thing. The wine will continue to age in the barrel for another 6 months and I plan on bottling it in January. In contrast, whites that I make from hybrids cost less than $1.60 per bottle to make (including bottling). I need to come up with a name for this red wine.

Edit: If I was making this wine to sell commercially, I would guess that it would be another $3-4 per bottle to cover costs and that I would sell it for around $20 or so. When I first started drinking serious" wines, back in the '70s, my cousin made a statement that I've always remembered, "The difference between $5 wine and $10 wine is ...... worth it".

Howie, the quality in this wines shows. It would easily sell for $25-30.00 in the current market. If what you are saying holds true, then it is the cost of quality that separates the good from the plonk. I hate to rave about it too much, since the majority of the WLDGers will not have the opportunity to taste it (in spite of your legendary generosity!)

Problem is that in the three tier system, if Howie were to sell it at $20 to a distributor, the distributor adds 30%-40% when it sells to the retailer who also adds 30-40% such as the final retail price is going to be $34-$40.

Even if they don't strive to make wines that "demand your attention", shouldn't they strive for wines that are pleasing? I guess I'm looking at this through rose' colored glasses...

Concscientious winegrowers certainly do strive to make wine they themselves like, but the first obligation of any winemaker is to make a living, and for many that means growing as many grapes per hectare as they can and selling to the local negoce/cave cooperative at whatever rate they're willing to pay. Traditional winemaking methods are time-consuming and (relatively) expensive, and many people have neither the financial resources or the ambition to pursue that model.

As an example, it wasn't that long ago (late '80s) when Kermit Lynch wrote in "Adventures on the Wine Road" of the dire financial straits in which producers in the Beaujolais found themselves through lack of customer demand for their wines. One lone wolf (Jules Chauvet) preached a different tune, attracting the attention of the Gang of Four (or Five) and now there are a dozen other producers following suit. None of those producers, though, can compete with DuBoeuf either on price or on production. That's not a coincidence.

Mark Lipton

Its somewhat dated and only addresses the grape growing cost but if you want to get a feel for it check out the tables starting on page 4 of the mid-atlantic grape growers guide http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/resources/winegrape/ag535-1.pdf Using these numbers, its estimated that one will not start to see a profit until year 8. Cutting corners may impact grape quality but could result in seeing a profit sooner. Inferior grapes result in inferior wine.

As grape growing alone is not very profitable in most parts of the world, a lot of folks plan to become wineries to maximize the profit from the grapes. The winemaking is the value added step. Unfortunately, it comes with a lot of additional capital investment and waiting for product to sell. Again, the more you cut cost and quicker you push product out the door, the sooner one can start to make a profit.

Julia,

I am in full agreement with you regarding plonk (or the making thereof). Your question might be more on target had you asked why winemakers make plonk. Having never made wine and being only a consumer, I wince when I spend $5-9 dollars for a bottle and after pouring a glass I pour the bottle down the drain. There is nothing seriously wrong with the wine except it is (to me) undrinkable. (of course higher priced wines can result in the same ending, but then, there is usually something seriously wrong like TCA).

The answer (in my mind) to your question is they sell it because it sells, and they could care less about people like us who value a good wine, and even try to steer friends and family away from the wines we know to be plonk. Companies don't even care if we are successful in steering a few friends or family members away from their wine, because dozens of others will see that $5.99 price tag and say "well it is chardonnay". (having said that, you gave an excellent example of a winemaker who does care, and has found a way to sell us sub $10 wine that tastes good.) It is a little like a statement I have made numerous times, which is: I wish the post office would not put all this junk mail into my mail box! But, if they did quit delivering it the USPS would soon close their doors and what would it cost to have UPS deliver the mail we really do want to receive? Plonk is the cash cow that allows wineries to make the good stuff.

I know no one is going to believe this, but as of the last year or so I have actually begun buying box wine. Not a lot of them but some. So far, I buy, (and re-buy) Grand Venur CdR from Alain Jaume, the same wine in bottle costs me (locally) $16.99 per 750ml bottle. In box it costs me $10 per 750ml. Another example is 2009 Viná Borgia garnacha. This is a Jorge Ordonez import. Am not sure what the bottle costs but I would imagine it to be around $9. I bought a three liter box (2nd purchase) of it yesterday for $14.95 which works out to be $3.50 per 750ml. (maybe I should buy a truckload and set up shop at the farmers market!

Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine?

I believe this is a more complex question than you imagine. Economies of scale, trends/fads, legal climate, vintage issues, skills, personnel, capitalization, will, access, marketing, brand, viticultural practices & equipment, vinification practices & equipment etc. etc.

Kelly, of course you are right..it is a complicated process. But at the end of the day, which of the factors you mentioned has the greatest impact on the winemaker's decision to make an inferior wine? My guess is "skill", but others here seem to believe it hinges on economics. That brings me back to my previous question: Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine?

In today’s day and age can we really consider “plonk” (inferior wine) a wine category? Who’s to say that a $30 bottle of wine can’t “evolve” or “turn” into “plonk”? OUCH!!!
Just to expand on what Mark made reference too, from a marketing standpoint, there are only two categories of wines produced (1) “consumable” and (2) “collectable”

Salute

So, Victor, are you saying that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as it relates to wine consumption? I buy that.

I've had Howie's wine that is being discussed and it truly is excellent stuff, esp. from the hinterlands here in Upstate NY.
But as to why plonk 'sells'? Why is Walmart the most popular store, or Costco and warehouse stores so popular? Because they are cheap. Cheapness creates it's own momentum and the race goes down to the bottom. Of course not everything that costs more is necessarily 'worth it' and I am a harsh critic of something that does not pull its own weight. Finding a balance is the most difficult problem we face.

Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine? Give me a couple of eggs and I can make you a tasty omelet or I can fry them into burnt cardboard. Which would you prefer? I'm stymied.

it is a complicated process. But at the end of the day, which of the factors you mentioned has the greatest impact on the winemaker's decision to make an inferior wine? My guess is "skill", but others here seem to believe it hinges on economics. That brings me back to my previous question: Is it that much more expensive to turn grape juice into palatable wine?

Without defining palatable wine and plonk its impossible to properly address this question but it appears that included in your statements is a belief that any grape juice can make palatable wine and that regardless of the condition of the raw material (grapes) making plonk is decision entirely of the winemaker. I don't believe this to be the case. Often the raw material is a limiting factor. For a wine to be profitable at the price points being discussed, grape prices per ton have to be very low. I believe the rule of thumb is still subtract two zeros from the grape per ton price to get the retail per bottle price so $2000/ton is for a $20 bottle of wine. So at the $6-$10 range you are talking about grapes priced at $600-$1000 per ton. The only way to profitably grow grapes that sell for $600/ton is to eliminate as much labor cost as possible and/or crop very heavy to maximize tons/acre. The less attention applied and the higher crop levels all result in a decrease in grape quality that is even more apparent in the final wine. Winemakers can adjust acid and sugar levels but they can not make flavors appear that are not in the raw material just as its difficult to remove unwanted flavors that may be apparent due to some portion of rotted berries or underripeness.

That being said, as you noted in the original post, there are good wines out there for less than $10. It can be done. It just don't expect that it is possible for all wines in that price range to be palatable as there are way too many grapes grown in places/ways that are focused on maximizing farming profits and not on grape quality. I also have noticed that the quality in the under $10 category, at least domestically, has increased the past few years as the bulk market has seen better quality juice being sold off. But again it comes back to grape quality and people taking small losses selling in the bulk market instead of risking bigger losses holding onto more wine in their inventories then they can currently sell.

...The only way to profitably grow grapes that sell for $600/ton is to eliminate as much labor cost as possible and/or crop very heavy to maximize tons/acre. The less attention applied and the higher crop levels all result in a decrease in grape quality that is even more apparent in the final wine. Winemakers can adjust acid and sugar levels but they can not make flavors appear that are not in the raw material just as its difficult to remove unwanted flavors that may be apparent due to some portion of rotted berries or underripeness....

The opening line in the first book on wine making I read over 35 years ago is "Good grapes make good wine".

Morten Hallgren at Ravines buys his grapes by the acre rather than the ton from select Finger Lakes vineyards. He works with the vineyard owners to ensure optimal cropping, but pays on the basis of what the owner would get under normal cropping standards. That's expensive, but the wines get rave reviews and are priced competitively.

Why do producers sell plonk?

We have friends who run a chain of liquor stores in our town. The most frequent request they receive when it comes to helping a customer pick out a wine is "Sweet, and under $10." That pretty much is the definition of "plonk."