Chablis Question

In a song by John Prine in his album "Fair and Square" he sings of a "bee buzzing around a glass of sweet Chablis". That started me thinking; all of the Chablis I have ever consumed (not that many) were very dry. Does anyone in Chablis actually make a sweet Chablis? I think I recall Dom. Bongran in the Macon, occasionally making a botrytised Chardonnay in a dessert style but I could be mistaken. Anyone know of a sweet Chablis?

I think it more likely refers to a California "Chablis." When labeling regulations were more lax, Gallo sold "Hearty Burgundy" and many Cali white wines were labeled "Chablis."

Jim, I would wager it is just the song writer is using his inventive mind to make the song sound good. I am like you in that I know of no sweet Chablis, but I bow also in JC's Direction as she is correct that there are many jug wines that put out a wine labeled Chablis that have noting to do with a true Chablis.

I think it more likely refers to a California "Chablis." When labeling regulations were more lax, Gallo sold "Hearty Burgundy" and many Cali white wines were labeled "Chablis."

JC, Back in the day "Hearty Burgundy" was a pretty decent wine. Then in 1978 (IIRC) Gallo came out with their first vintage dated wine, a Cabernet and that took the best fruit from H-B, and H-B turned into plonk. H-B is still being produced but I haven't had one is many years. BTW, Gallo then raised the bar when they put out an Estate Cabernet that was released at a price north of $50 per bottle. That too was a really fine bottle of wine, but the price scared me. I suspect a lot of people turned off being it said Gallo on the bottle. I started going to Mo'Cool in 1996 and do not remember which year I took the Gallo Estate Cabernet, but I do recall it was very well received. Surprised a few folks.

On the songwriting end, depending on context of course, Ol' John might be using sweet as a quality not taste descriptor (i.e. "that's one sweet ride", etc).

I'm a Prine fan, though I have paid much attention to his more recent work, I'll have to lend an ear to this.

Johnny Prine also sang of 'Babies cryin'; porkchops and Beaujolais' -clearly a lover of Burgundy both far-north and deep-south.

But yeah, though he was probably singin' about California Chablis, I have tasted Chablis from warmer vintages that came-off tropical if not a little sweet. Some 2003 Verget (especially) and Fevre come to mind.

Maybe Someday he'll sing 'Angel from Montee de Tonnerre.'

Cheers,
Bill

I always wondered whether Dylan was singing about Hearty Burgundy in Tom Thumb's Blues:

I started out on Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff

I don't suppose he was singing about DRC.

I think JC got it right.
Not too long ago I spent most of an evening listening to John Prine on youtube, one of my all time favorite songwriters. David happened to walk by while "Spanish Pipedream" was on, he stopped to listen (to him its an Avett Brothers song) and I think I made a convert.

[Robin Garr]

I think it more likely refers to a California "Chablis." When labeling regulations were more lax, Gallo sold "Hearty Burgundy" and many Cali white wines were labeled "Chablis."

I'm in no doubt. "Burgundy" (not just Gallo's Hearty) and "Chablis" were broadly accepted as the generic terms for "red wine" and "white wine" until well into the 1970s and even early '80s. Varietal labeling started to take over then, but it was years getting traction, and I'm not convinced that some older Americans who aren't into wine don't still think of them that way.

The dawn of American wine geekiness just wasn't all that long ago. It pretty much coincided with the rise of foodiness (Julia, James, Craig and Pierre and the Galloping Gourmet). It all happened pretty quickly when the Baby Boomers started growing up, getting out of college and earning enough disposable income to begin enjoying the good things of life. It didn't take long to graduate from Boone's Farm to Chardonnay to REAL Chablis.

I'm in no doubt. "Burgundy" (not just Gallo's Hearty) and "Chablis" were broadly accepted as the generic terms for "red wine" and "white wine" until well into the 1970s and even early '80s. Varietal labeling started to take over then, but it was years getting traction, and I'm not convinced that some older Americans who aren't into wine don't still think of them that way.

The dawn of American wine geekiness just wasn't all that long ago. It pretty much coincided with the rise of foodiness (Julia, James, Craig and Pierre and the Galloping Gourmet). It all happened pretty quickly when the Baby Boomers started growing up, getting out of college and earning enough disposable income to begin enjoying the good things of life. It didn't take long to graduate from Boone's Farm to Chardonnay to REAL Chablis.

Robin, I suspect that you are "dead on target", and that old habits die hard.

You guys and gal have ignored my real question. Does Chablis make any sweet dessert wine?

You guys and gal have ignored my real question. Does Chablis make any sweet dessert wine?

No, at least not using the name Chablis on it. Anything can be done under the auspices of Vin de Table, though. So maybe someone in Maligny or St. Cyr-les-Colons makes a vin de paille? Who knows?

Mark Lipton

If you want information you should no better then to consult the internet.

Not having any experience with this your question did get me thinking so I poked around..er....on the internet...and found this:

http://www.frenchentree.com/france-burg ... p?ID=34207

Thank you Kelly for the link. If my math is correct, 30-40 gr./L. is only 3-4 % residual sugar and not all [url]that[/url] sweet (think Sauternes) but quite noticable. I wonder hope much that blue bottle would cost in the USA?

Good find, Kelly. I can't see any other trace of this wine on teh Interwebs, but from the teensy picture I can see that it's got a vintage date on it, so not VdT. Maybe VdP? I wonder how they got this past the INAO.

Mark Lipton

I wonder how they got this past the INAO.

Mark Lipton

The first rule of Sweet Chablis, is you don't talk about Sweet Chablis.
The second rule of Sweet Chablis, is you don't talk about Sweet Chablis.

Again not being over familiar with the regions parameters and only having had a few proper Chablis, it does seem like potential for great sweet wines would be there. Things that are steely and good acidity, under the right conditions, would seem to promise a good sticky. Maybe it's too hard to get that advanced ripeness there?

BTW sorry for posting again but the system wouldn't let me edit that last post.

[Robin Garr]

You guys and gal have ignored my real question. Does Chablis make any sweet dessert wine?

No. I thought that was answered at the start of the thread, Jim, but maybe we all just assumed it.

[Robin Garr]

If you want information you should no better then to consult the internet.

Not having any experience with this your question did get me thinking so I poked around..er....on the internet...and found this:

http://www.frenchentree.com/france-burg ... p?ID=34207

For the record, though, although the article does not address this specifically, I'm about 99.44% sure that this wine cannot be labeled Chablis or bear the name of the AOC anywhere on the label, even if it's made from Chablis-grown fruit.

If you want information you should no better then to consult the internet.

Not having any experience with this your question did get me thinking so I poked around..er....on the internet...and found this:

http://www.frenchentree.com/france-burg ... p?ID=34207

For the record, though, although the article does not address this specifically, I'm about 99.44% sure that this wine cannot be labeled Chablis or bear the name of the AOC anywhere on the label, even if it's made from Chablis-grown fruit.

It definitely cannot, Robin. Chablis AOC requires less than 3 g/l sugar.

Mark Lipton

Mark are you sure about the RS content? I know the Chablis AOC has minimum alcohol requirements for each category of Chablis. For a wine to be granted Chablis AOC status it must go through an analytical testing and a tasting process. Traditionally the northernmost region of Burgundy produced exceptional dry white still table wines.

Salute

Mark are you sure about the RS content? I know the Chablis AOC has minimum alcohol requirements for each category of Chablis. For a wine to be granted Chablis AOC status it must go through an analytical testing and a tasting process. Traditionally the northernmost region of Burgundy produced exceptional dry white still table wines.

Victor,
I recall reading that number, but I can't put my finger on the source at the moment. Why are you surprised, though? I was referring to an upper limit on RS and 3 g/l is fairly low. Looking at this website, I see Liger-Belair's AOC Chablis listed as 2.2 g/l, which is consistent with (but not proof of) the limit I mentioned.

Mark Lipton

If indeed 3 g/L is the upper limit for RS (Residual Sugar) one would think they would have a stipulation for TA (Total Acidity) content.

Salute

The Chablis AOC governs the production of only one style or type of wine (Chablis). Unlike other AOC’s , where the regulatory body of a wine region might govern or allow the production of various styles of wine within that region. If you look at a list of all the AOC’s in France (and there are a lot of them) you will notice that AOC’s cover almost every type and style of wine, even within certain regions you will notice grape varieties themselves having their own AOC.

Salute