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What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

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What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:25 pm

There is a lot happening right now in German Pinot Noir and the style and overall quality is transforming before our eyes. The lessons learned over the past decade have been fundamental in achieving this, and every new vintage brings more knowledge and experience to the table. Not surprisingly, it has been the warm vintages that have provided the most food for thought and the best opportunities to learn from. 2003 hit everyone off guard. Suddenly, here was this monster vintage that (to many winemakers minds) demanded satisfactory oak treatment and tannin management. The vineyard practices that worked for decades to help promote ripeness in red grapes and combat rot (reduced yields, bunch thinning, leaf thinning, GIBB and other sprays to reduce fruit-set, loose-berry clonal selections –often Mariafelder) instead made monstrous, often soupy and port-like Pinot in 2003. The lessons learned in 2003, about what not to do, weren’t applicable in the smallish 2004 vintage or in the rot-rampant 2006 (except in the Ahr, where the rain missed and who had one of their great vintages of all-time that year), but 2005 and especially 2007 were chances to improve upon and correct the mistakes made in 2003 and the wines got much better and moved further towards elegance especially in regards to oak. 2008 was not an especially warm vintage, but the Spätburgunder in some parts of Germany benefited from hang-times of a month or longer than normal. The alcohol was down, but the grapes had excellent phenolic maturity and when the winemaker had the right clones at his disposal and showed some restraint in oak selection, the resulting Pinot Noirs were the best I have ever tasted from Germany (especially in the Pfalz and Baden.) 2009 will also go down as a top Spätburgunder vintage for a softer, slightly riper, more opulent style. But one with finesse.

Generally, The Ahr, the Pfalz, Baden, Württemberg, Franken and the Rheingau have the greatest potential to make very fine and sometimes exceptional Pinot Noir, but other regions also produce good wines if not with the regularity of those mentioned. This is achieved by finding suitable terroirs. Limestone and chalky, seashell-rich soils of course, are often part of the equation, but sandstones such as Grauwacke (which is green-gray sandstone often with Quartzit and clay) are also important, and volcanic soils play a significant role in Baden.

Another setback in the search for elegant, internationally accepted (as opposed to internationally-styled) Pinot Noir in Germany has been that the Germans have a bit of a chip on their shoulders and something to prove. For years they’ve been told that they can’t make red wine of substance and this has led to some producers overstepping their bounds in an attempt to dissuade the detractors by seeking to make deeper-colored, more extracted, heavier-oaked Pinot Noir. Much of this bad press has been their own doing, as seen in the insane pace of new red-crossings being planted and almost as quickly being abandoned for the next. There have been half-baked marketing attempts to send flawed, or under-ripe red wine abroad masked by sweetness (often by large bulk-wine producers and shipped in fancy or frosted bottles.) I can assure you that Germans do not drink sweet red wine. Until 2006, the words Pinot Noir were not allowed on Qualitätsweine or Prädikatwein from Germany and the fact that Spätburgunder is not an internationally recognized synonym for the grape has certainly hindered sales in other markets.

Pinot Noir is thought to have been brought to Germany around the year 850 from Burgundy.

Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder) ranks 3rd (after Riesling and Müller-Thurgau) in area planted in Germany at 11,800 ha (2009 Deutsches Weininstitut)

Germany ranks 3rd in the world for area planted to Pinot Noir (After France and the USA) with 11,800 ha/29,100 acres (2009 Deutsches Weininstitut)

Finally, so as not to be accused too harshly of homerism or cellar-palate, I must say that while I don’t profess to be an ‘expert’ in Pinot Noir, I have done rather extensive Pinot Noir tasting in Burgundy, Oregon, California, Alsace, Switzerland, the Loire, Chile, Lichtenstein and Austria (and of course Germany), and have tasted many of the great Pinots from New Zealand, Tasmania, and Italy. I have also tasted less-than great Pinot from those countries and regions and others such as Hungary and Argentina. I bring it up only in a last-ditch effort to persuade more people to take German Pinot with more gravitas.

Cheers,
Bill
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Marco Raimondi » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:47 pm

Bill:

About a year ago, a friend and I had a lovely lunch at Sepia (Chicago) and being huge fans of Pinot, we ordered a reasonably priced 2005 "Keller" Spatburgunder; the wine was just an absolute knock-out!! Not believing the truly stunning QPR ($66 in restaurant), when I got home I checked their on-line, wine-list and noticed that we were the lucky recipients of "wrong bin syndrome" (where the sommelier picks the wrong wine, but in this case, serves a better cuvee of the wine ordered). We were served the Keller 2005 "Cuvee Felix" Spatburgunder ($180 in restaurant) instead of the regular Keller Spatburgunder.... what a great, great perfumed, silky, and balanced Pinot, reminiscent of a first-class, Premier Cru Chambolle!

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Rahsaan » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:54 pm

Thanks for this rundown. As I mentioned in your VDP Pfalz thread, I'm a big fan of German spatburgunder when in Germany. But mainly in the niche of easy-to-drink inexpensive wine. Yet it would still be great to see more high quality wines coming out. It's such a great grape and there's so much great land in Germany. But how much of the pinot noir is planted on interesting terroir?
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:10 pm

Funny you should ask Rahsaan,

The VDP has come up with an ingenious way of informing the consumer as to which terroirs can be counted among the very best that Germany has to offer. Just look for the Erste Lage designation and the ‘GG’ on your next bottle and you can be assured that you hold in your hand an exceptional Spätburgunder. :P

Kidding aside, the producers who are serious about showcasing Pinot Noir from a particular terroir (as opposed to cuvees, some of which are very good too) will have an Erste Lage, other single vineyard designation, or some sort of description of the soil on the label (Kalkstein, vom Buntsandstein, vom Muschelkalk, etc.) other than that, there are internal systems (like Koehler-Ruprecht and the Saumagen ‘R’ and ‘RR’ or Star *** ratings, or ‘Terroir Series’ wines, Becker Tafelwein and it costs 85€, or whatever.) If it doesn’t state anything, you can assume that it is a blend of vineyards and ripeness levels or it comes from a loam or otherwise unexceptional vineyard.

One more note: I don’t see much in the way of Spätburgunder Kabinett. A Weingut that grew one would likely use it for Weißherbst, blending material, or just simply chaptalize that baby up to low-Spätlese and slap ‘Qualitätswein’ on the label.

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:15 pm

Thanks for sharing Marco, and I guess those confusing German labels are paying off for someone!

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Rahsaan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:53 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:If it doesn’t state anything, you can assume that it is a blend of vineyards and ripeness levels or it comes from a loam or otherwise unexceptional vineyard.


Yes, but just because the vineyard is specified doesn't mean it's exceptional! (Plenty of red Burgundy and CA pinot noir to prove that point).

I was also wondering how many of the truly great sites are planted with pinot noir. I know Assmanhauser is supposed to be legendary, but wasn't sure about how many of these others were truly interesting, despite their EL or EG status.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by JohnGuyton » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:05 am

Good stuff. There are some very good German (and Alsace for that matter) Pinot Noirs out there. Furst in the Franken, for one, comes to mind, but there are a good number of others. Many of these wines have a dry sour cherry style (particularly in Alsace) that I rather like and don't tend to encounter in Burgundy. I find that the style works well with duck and other fatty meats.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:46 am

Rahsaan wrote:
Bill Hooper wrote:If it doesn’t state anything, you can assume that it is a blend of vineyards and ripeness levels or it comes from a loam or otherwise unexceptional vineyard.


Yes, but just because the vineyard is specified doesn't mean it's exceptional! (Plenty of red Burgundy and CA pinot noir to prove that point).

I was also wondering how many of the truly great sites are planted with pinot noir. I know Assmanhauser is supposed to be legendary, but wasn't sure about how many of these others were truly interesting, despite their EL or EG status.


True, but these days German producers are generally very reluctant to put a vineyard designation on a wine unless it means something. It has been widely recognized that the label-clutter of a few years ago did damage to image and sales both domestically and abroad. It may be hard to believe (in fact, it may be REALLY hard to believe), but these guys are striving for simplicity. VDP producers cannot use Großlage names on labels, and its even difficult to find supermarket Riesling with a Großlage designation. Since German consumers don’t want sweet wines, the prädikats that we used to see on these cheap bottles no longer serve a purpose and Deidesheimer Hofstück Auslese or Piesporter Michelsberg Spätlese (which were probably Huxelrebe and Ortega anyway) have pretty much been replaced by branded dry Riesling which may not hit the Oechsle levels of the crossings, but don’t need to. Oechsle is slowly being replaced in importance with terroir.

Obviously if a vineyard is legendary for Riesling, it doesn’t mean it’s a good home for Pinot Noir. There are approved varieties for GG wines in each Region (In the Pfalz, they are Riesling, Spätburgunder and Weißburgunder.)

Here is a list of GG wines from EL sites in the Pfalz for example (very few vineyards are approved for both Riesling and Spätburgunder):

http://www.vdp.de/de/klassifikation/die-lagen/pfalz/

furthermore, producers are loathe to grub up Riesling from a top site to plant Pinot when they can get a better price for Riesling. If Fevre started planting Pinot Noir in Les Clos and it didn’t taste good, he wouldn’t have much of a market for it and certainly couldn’t get $80 a bottle for it (or whatever.) Egon Müller isn’t going to plant Pinot Noir in the Scharzhofberg for the same reason. That’s also why you don’t see many producers planting Spätburgunder in the great Mittelhaardt vineyards.

It’s just like anything else. You need to do your homework; read, taste, travel. Repeat.

Cheers,
Bill
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:49 am

JohnGuyton wrote:Good stuff. There are some very good German (and Alsace for that matter) Pinot Noirs out there. Furst in the Franken, for one, comes to mind, but there are a good number of others. Many of these wines have a dry sour cherry style (particularly in Alsace) that I rather like and don't tend to encounter in Burgundy. I find that the style works well with duck and other fatty meats.


Hello John,

I'm a fan of Fürst too. Who do you like in Alsace?

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Tim York » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:17 am

Thanks for that report on the improving Spätburgunder situation, Bill. Alas I never see any for sale here; and not that much German Riesling, for that matter. So near, but so far; I think that I can dive to the Ahr valley in little more than two hours.

At a tasting in Bad Kneuznach about 10 years ago, many were marred by the oak treatment and high prices and it was a no-brainer to buy Riesling instead. You seem to confirm that there is still a lot of heavy oaking around. I wonder why German producers go for oak on PN when their white are mostly gloriously free of wood aromas.

I need to do another trip to FUB in Cologne to stock up on assorted VDP wines and some Spätburgunder.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by JohnGuyton » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:15 am

Bill Hooper wrote:
JohnGuyton wrote:Good stuff. There are some very good German (and Alsace for that matter) Pinot Noirs out there. Furst in the Franken, for one, comes to mind, but there are a good number of others. Many of these wines have a dry sour cherry style (particularly in Alsace) that I rather like and don't tend to encounter in Burgundy. I find that the style works well with duck and other fatty meats.


Hello John,

I'm a fan of Fürst too. Who do you like in Alsace?

Cheers,
Bill


Hi Bill -- I really like Klein -- for instance I find their '05 to exemplify the bright dry sour cherry style I mentioned. I also like Francois Baur's Sang du Dragon. My one experience with ZH's pinot noir was positive as well, but that was something I ran across in a wine shop in Colmar and have never seen again. There have been several others I've had while in Alsace, but the Klein and Baur are available stateside with some searching.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:39 pm

Tim York wrote: You seem to confirm that there is still a lot of heavy oaking around. I wonder why German producers go for oak on PN when their white are mostly gloriously free of wood aromas.


There is Tim, but not any more so than in other regions around the world. The criticism of over-oaking comes up in California, Oregon, Piedmont, Tuscany, the Languedoc, all over Spain, and even in Burgundy. As is the case anywhere else, some producers get it, some don't.

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:48 pm

JohnGuyton wrote:
Bill Hooper wrote:
JohnGuyton wrote:Good stuff. There are some very good German (and Alsace for that matter) Pinot Noirs out there. Furst in the Franken, for one, comes to mind, but there are a good number of others. Many of these wines have a dry sour cherry style (particularly in Alsace) that I rather like and don't tend to encounter in Burgundy. I find that the style works well with duck and other fatty meats.


Hello John,

I'm a fan of Fürst too. Who do you like in Alsace?

Cheers,
Bill


Hi Bill -- I really like Klein -- for instance I find their '05 to exemplify the bright dry sour cherry style I mentioned. I also like Francois Baur's Sang du Dragon. My one experience with ZH's pinot noir was positive as well, but that was something I ran across in a wine shop in Colmar and have never seen again. There have been several others I've had while in Alsace, but the Klein and Baur are available stateside with some searching.


I am familiar with Klein St. Hyppolyte in name only, but Baur is new to me. I may be losing my edge in Alsace!

Thanks,
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by JohnGuyton » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:16 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:I am familiar with Klein St. Hyppolyte in name only, but Baur is new to me. I may be losing my edge in Alsace!


Francois Baur is located in Turkheim. While his Pinot Noir has its virtues, his Riesling Brand, Gewurz (also from Brand as best I recall), and his Cremant all have charms of their own. The Cremant may be the best I've yet encountered in Alsace, though no claims from me of a wide range of experience in this regard. One of the charms of their Riesling Brand is that they release it when they think it is showing best. When I visited a couple of years ago the 2001 was the current release available. Their is a very pleasant (and perhaps related) restaurant next door that serves their wines as well.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Andrew Bair » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:32 pm

Hi Bill -

Thanks for the report. I've had some interesting Spätburgunders - generally the entry-level wines - from the likes of Kesseler, Becker, and Meßmer, in particular. Have not had any yet from Keller, but will certainly try one sometime, as I am a big fan of their Rieslings and other whites.

I noticed that you missed the Nahe - Diel's Caroline certainly has a very good reputation.

As far as Alsatian Pinot Noir, one that I really liked was an 04 from Audrey and Christian Binner. As a 'natural' wine, I suppose that it won't be everybody's thing, perhaps. One that I recently bought, and am looking forward to opening soon is an 03 Deiss Burlenberg, which is technically a field blend of Pinot Noir and Pinot Beurot.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:18 pm

Thanks John and Andrew.

I’ve had the Deiss Burlenberg 2003 many times in the past. It started out great:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16865&p=142272&hilit=burlenberg#p142272

But then took a dive:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26425&p=227760&hilit=Burlenberg#p227760

I gave up after the 7th or 8th bottle.
Please let me know how your bottle tasted.

Cheers,
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by JohnGuyton » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:36 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:
JohnGuyton wrote:
Bill Hooper wrote:
Hello John,

I'm a fan of Fürst too. Who do you like in Alsace?

Cheers,
Bill


Hi Bill -- I really like Klein -- for instance I find their '05 to exemplify the bright dry sour cherry style I mentioned. I also like Francois Baur's Sang du Dragon. My one experience with ZH's pinot noir was positive as well, but that was something I ran across in a wine shop in Colmar and have never seen again. There have been several others I've had while in Alsace, but the Klein and Baur are available stateside with some searching.


I am familiar with Klein St. Hyppolyte in name only, but Baur is new to me. I may be losing my edge in Alsace!

Thanks,
Bill


Hi Bill -- Just had the 2001 Klein St. Hippolyte Vielli en Barriques this weekend. The sour cherry still comes through, but with a bit more earth and spice from the wood and age. It is a style that very much appeals to me and nicely complemented the pan-fried blood sausage we had as a main course.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:52 am

Nice John!

2001 seemed to me, to be an exceptional Pinot Noir vintage in Alsace. Ripe enough, not overly, and with fine phenolic maturity.

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Peter Ruhrberg » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:55 am

Tim York wrote:I need to do another trip to FUB in Cologne to stock up on assorted VDP wines and some Spätburgunder.


Too late, Tim. They closed theor shop and now operate via internet only. You may find some Spätburgunders elsewhere in town (les Amis du Vin, Kölner Weinkeller,...).

Bill: I very much agree with your story. What is you´r take on the genetic material? It seems to me that the clones used in Germany tend to have a germanic taste, producing fruit driven wines of less depth than burgundian clones. A case in point: Keller Felix is a superb germanic Pinot for me, but his Frauenberg, planted from recently aquiried cuttings from Burgundy, is even better, shows more terroir and depth for me, and may well be the finest Pinot in Germany right now (for my personal taste).

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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:12 pm

Peter Ruhrberg wrote:
Tim York wrote:I need to do another trip to FUB in Cologne to stock up on assorted VDP wines and some Spätburgunder.


Too late, Tim. They closed theor shop and now operate via internet only. You may find some Spätburgunders elsewhere in town (les Amis du Vin, Kölner Weinkeller,...).

Bill: I very much agree with your story. What is you´r take on the genetic material? It seems to me that the clones used in Germany tend to have a germanic taste, producing fruit driven wines of less depth than burgundian clones. A case in point: Keller Felix is a superb germanic Pinot for me, but his Frauenberg, planted from recently aquiried cuttings from Burgundy, is even better, shows more terroir and depth for me, and may well be the finest Pinot in Germany right now (for my personal taste).

Peter


Hello Peter,

I'm very sorry for the late response. I've just returned from almost two weeks in Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein. I have Matjes coming out of my ears.

There are a lot of different Pinot Noir clones in the ground now in Germany. The considerations are of quality, ripening time, Oechsle, yield, and how compact the bunches are. The small-berried, loose-set clones that have been popular for years have a sweeter flavor and are far less susceptible to the rot that harvest-time rain brings. On the other hand, French clones like the 777 produce far better wines of more depth, flavor, and structure. The downside is the considerable labor needed to ensure that the berries have enough room for air-circulation to keep out botrytis and penicillin. This involves picking out either flowers or just-set berries by hand from the middle of EVERY bunch on EVERY vine (I've spent much of my summer doing just this), and by rigorous leaf removal from the fruiting zone. It seems to me that genetic diversity (a mix of many clones) followed by lots of vineyard labor is the best way to ensure high quality and minimize the risks of many problems.

This link gives a good breakdown of the available clones and their strengths and weaknesses:
http://www.dlr-rheinpfalz.rlp.de/Intern ... rklone.pdf


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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Andrew Bair » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:54 pm

Bill Hooper wrote:Thanks John and Andrew.

I’ve had the Deiss Burlenberg 2003 many times in the past. It started out great:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16865&p=142272&hilit=burlenberg#p142272

But then took a dive:
http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26425&p=227760&hilit=Burlenberg#p227760

I gave up after the 7th or 8th bottle.
Please let me know how your bottle tasted.

Cheers,
Bill


Bill, thank you for linking to your notes on the 2003 Burlenburg. Fortunately, it showed impressively for me:

2003 Domaine Marcel Deiss Burlenberg
Field blend of mostly Pinot Noir, with some Pinot Beurot, which Jean-Michel Deiss considers to be a distinct variety different than Pinot Gris. Decanted for about 45 minutes. Interesting nose – rather feral/animal, with some roasted scents, berries, and hay. Full-bodied and ripe, in keeping with the vintage – although I have generally avoided most 2003 Burgundies because of the heat, the riper vintage isn’t necessarily a bad thing for an Alsatian Pinot Noir (or Pinot Noir-based field blend, in this case). Quite nicely balanced, with velvety, plush fruit, good underlying acidity, and somewhat powdery tannins. Tastes of blackberries, raspberry jam, minerals, spices, dark chocolate, and mint, with some additional earthy/mossy/graphite notes. Nice length on the finish. Excellent.

Although I love Deiss' other field blends, this is the first Burlenberg that I've had.
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Re: What else can I say about German Pinot Noir (Spätburgunder)?

by Bill Hooper » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:43 pm

Well done, Andrew! I'm very glad to hear that some of those babies weathered the storm or were left out of it completely. Some of the greatest Alsatian wines that I've had the pleasure of tasting have come from Deiss, and I'm as big a fan of the man as I am of his wines. The only knock I can muster is that they can sometimes be inconsistent (as in my bad luck with the Burlenburg, a couple of oxidized bottles here and there, and some re-ferment problems with the 2007 Pinot Blanc -normally one of my favorites from Alsace.) I will say that I've never tasted a Grand Cru from Deiss that was anything less than stunning, and never a bad Muscat.

Thanks for the note.

Cheers,
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