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So, about bourbon

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So, about bourbon

by Jenise » Thu May 19, 2011 8:34 pm

I know very little about Bourbon. A bottle of Gentleman Jack has been in our liquor cupboard for years, and though it tastes fine enough to me it remains untouched where several bottles of single malts have been purchased and sipped at often. The problem is probably that I associate bourbon (and Jack Daniels especially) with my father, and that's not a good association.

So today when I dropped by the state liquor board to replenish my supply of dry vermouth, which I cook with, I was attracted to a cool shaped bottle which turned out to be a bottle of Wild Turkey American Honey, whatever that is, and ended up looking at the bourbons nearby. A new friend is quite the bourbon drinker and it occurred to me it might be cool to have something nifty on hand for him.

A black and white label on a square-bottomed bottom that I thought at first was Jack Daniels turned out to be James Dickey, which would appear in color and name even to be a deliberate knock-off, and I recognized Makers Mark and Knob Creek as brands others have spoken well of. Lots of Wild Turkey, too, which looked more like a well brand. That was pretty much it for the well known names.

Mind you, I was not in the part of town likely to have the best selection available in our town, and our town probably isn't likely to have a great selection period, but here are the ones that had a more artisinal look: 1792 Ridgemont Reserve, Basil Hayden 8 yo, Bernheim Original, Russell's Reserve 10 yo, Bulleitt Frontier Whisky, Eagle Rare 10 yo, Buffalo Trace, and Elijah Craig.

On an absolute whim, I purchased the Russell's Reserve, largely on the bases that it was one of the two most aged best I could tell and it was $10 more than the other 10 year old. The latter is possibly the worst reason on which to base a purchase, but lacking any other information it was what I was most willing to bet on.

So now that it's too late, would someone (Hoke?) care to give me a little bourbon tutorial?
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Lou Kessler » Thu May 19, 2011 9:19 pm

I confess that we sell a great many bourbons I've never heard of until the last few years, plus the better known standards. When someone asks me about bourbon the little time I'm in our store I refer them to one of the other guys as our "resident bourbon expert." In my youth before wine I drank CC. Email Hoke, I can't think of anyone that knows as much about spirits as he does.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Thu May 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Well, first, Jack Daniel's isn''t a bourbon, Jenise. :D It's a Tennessee Whiskey. Mind you, it's made almost exactly like bourbon, but with one difference that makes it not-bourbon: the raw whiskey is 'charcoal mellowed' before barreling; that is, it is slow-dripped through a ten foot column of freshly rendered sugar maple charcoal. That considerably 'mellows out' the whiskey. But as a result, it breaks the rules of bourbon.

Bourbon itself is made in the US, must be minimum 51% corn (the other percentage can be anything but is usually wheat, or rye, or barley in various mixtures; each company has its own 'grain bill' or 'mash bill'), distilled at or below 160 proof, put in barrel at 125 proof. Barrels must be first time, newly charred white oak barrels. If it says Straight Bourbon, it has to be minimum two years in barrel (any younger, which is rare, and it has to have a specific age statement). Has to be bottled at least at 80 proof. No additives, with the exception of pure water. No food colorings allowed (unlike scotch, for instance), so all color must come from the barrel aging.

Two basic styles in bourbon: 'wheated bourbon', which uses a heavy admixture of wheat for a sweeter, milder and less complex flavor; and 'rye-heavy bourbon', which uses a heavy admixture of rye grain, often with barley, for a considerably spicier style. Think wheat bread and rye bread.

Wheated bourbons are W.L. Weller and Maker's Mark. Rye-heavy include Woodford Reserve, Four Roses, and Old Forester. Taste a wheated side by side with a rye-heavy and you can readily tell the difference.

Stylistically you can have 'small batch' (which can mean anything you want it to mean) and Single Barrel, which is what it says, the whiskey from a single barrel at a time, unblended. You can also have wide proof variations and wide age variations. So you're usually looking for vanilla, butterscotch, caramel, toffee, coffee, leather and stuff in the spice stuff when you're looking at bourbon.

Unlike scotch, bourbon is much more barrel-focused for its primary flavors (scotch is more barley malt focused for its primariy), so the type and style and duration is going to heavily influence and direct the taste of a bourbon. That said, there's a lot of bullshit out there that leads people to believe that extra extended aging in barrel is superior...when it may or may not be, and often isn't. Over-barreling a bourbon can easily result in what distillers call "woodiness", and can turn a good bourbon bad. Scotch drinkers think bourbon is sweet..which it can be, from the corn...and bourbon drinkers think scotch is like licking an old ashtray doused with iodine. Then there's those of us who swing both ways. :D

The whiskey next to the Jack Daniel's was George Dickel. JD and GD are the only two operating distillers of Tennessee Whiskey.

The Wild Turkey American Honey is representative of a recent trend to come out with all sorts of flavored whiskies and whiskey-based liqueurs. You have to look close to tell the difference, but the primary difference is sugar. Wild Turkey, too me, is way too sweet and unbalanced in flavor. Jack Daniel's just came out with a JD Tennessee Honey that hits the mark much, much better---and it's generating a lot of, you should pardon the expression, buzz. Jim Beam has a black cherry flavored whiskey out called Red Stag. it's awful. But popular.

You lucked out when you got the Jimmy Russell Reserve Rye----Jimmy is the master distiller for Wild Turkey, and a big fan of rye whiskey. So he makes the JR 6 year and JR 10 year. Both are great whiskies. I have a bottle in my cabinet. But it's technically rye whiskey, not bourbon whiskey, because the predominant grain is rye rather than corn. Rye makes it super spicy, and probably closer to scotch than bourbon would be, in that it's less sweet than bourbon.

The best deal for rye whiskey, in my book (and a lot of other people's) is the Old Rittenhouse Rye 100 proof. Outstanding, and cheap---well, except for the special limited releases that are, like, 23 and 25 year old. Best damned rye deal there is. But the Jimmy Russell is pretty good too.

That enough for now? :lol:
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Tom V » Fri May 20, 2011 2:48 am

Jenise wrote:
So now that it's too late, would someone (Hoke?) care to give me a little bourbon tutorial?



Jenise, There are so many great bourbons out there to sample! Anything with the name "Van Winkle" on the bottle is top flight for one thing. There's a boatload of interesting ones to try, Elijah Craig 12 & 18 year, Booker's, Baker's, Elmer T. Lee, Four Roses Single Barrel & small Batch, Jefferson Reserve, Various Evan Williams bottlings, Various Weller bottlings such as Antique and 12 year, Rock Hill Farms, Blantons, George T Stagg, be careful with this one at about 145 proof!...and many, many more! I enjoy Scotch, but I must admit my heart belongs to bourbon, whether "wheater" or a rye based I find it delicious, complex, and real user friendly!

Whether you want to become a Bourbon genius or just learn the basics Jenise, what you want to do is go to STRAIGHTBOURBON.COM. A fun web site which will tell you everything you could possibly want to know about the stuff.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Shlomo R » Fri May 20, 2011 3:04 am

Um, Hoke, how did you figure that jenise bought Russels Reserve Rye? Russels Reserve 10 is also a bourbon. Personally, I think Wild Turkey Rye is actually the best rye for the price. And personally, I think Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit Single Barrel is perhaps Wild Turkey' best product. Jenise, I like Basil Hayden very much - it's somewhat lighter than most of the other small batch bourbons. The Antique Collection is something amazing (George T. Stagg, Eagle Rare 17, Sazerac 18, William Larue Weller). I find Eagle Rare 10 one of the best buys in bourbon, but I find 1792 and Bulleit to be disappointing.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Fri May 20, 2011 11:43 am

Um, Hoke, how did you figure that jenise bought Russels Reserve Rye? Russels Reserve 10 is also a bourbon.


Because I love the JR Rye? :D

Wild Turkey Rye the best for the price? Obviously our mileage varies, Shlomo. :wink: I'd put the Old Rittenhouse 100 up against it any day. (Maybe the habitues of this place need to go out and try both mano a mano and see what they like? Get more people appreciating rye that way,eh?)

I'm not as big a fan of Wild Turkey as you are, apparently. I'd rank many other bourbons...and ryes...before WT these days.

Careful of the George T. Stagg. It's barrel proof, and that's currently a 148! Damn few people, and especially not folks trying to break in to bourbon, can easily appreciate, or even understand, a 148 proof bourbon. Changes the whole dynamic, dealing with that much alcohol. It's the reason most distillers don't care overly much for barrel tastings.

We agree on the W. L. Weller and the Eagle Rare. And we most decidedly agree on the Bulleit---it''s a construct by Diageo and it's not worth the effort.

But as Tom Lee said, there are so many bourbons out there.

Jenise, I've been thinking about this, and what I suggest is you go out and get a barrel of Elmer T. Lee 90 Proof Single Barrel. It's a whompin great bourbon from one of the real masters. Wait until one of those beautiful perfect evenings you get, pour out a tot for a long, slow, leisurely, contemplative sipping session, let the evening stretch out and down into night, slow down, and let the appreciation of bourbon just wrap itself around you and comfort you like a butterscotch scented blanket.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Jenise » Fri May 20, 2011 11:55 am

Wow, lots of cool information. Thank you, everyone. I can see I'm going to need to buy more bourbons to make sense of ingredients vs. taste. I'll look for some of the more exclusive versions.

Does the charcoal-mellowing make the Tennessee Whiskeys (or is 'whiskies' the correct plural--I typed it that way first but it looks wrong, like cat food :) ) smokier?

And re age. Hoke, does this statement of yours "If it says Straight Bourbon, it has to be minimum two years in barrel (any younger, which is rare, and it has to have a specific age statement)" corrolate directly to the ages on the bottles I mentioned--does this imply then, or guarantee, that the Russell I bought was 10 years in barrel? And does it stay in the same barrel, or are whiskeys moved from barrel to barrel in their lifetime?

So when Bob got home last night he spied the Russell sitting on the counter along with two Waterford crystal tumblers. "Oh boy," he said, not knowing exactly what was up but feeling pretty happy about his prospects. I then poured us each a tiny taste of the Gentleman Jack referred to in my original post. May not have been the fairest test in the world but tasting two helps me with context. And I tasted....

Let me go back a few, cough cough, years. Like WAY back. My dad was a swanky businessman and very much cocktail drinker. He had a few favorite pre-dinner drinks, but the one he generally ordered when we went out to dinner as a family was a Canadian Club Manhattan because I would beg for the cherry. So for years and years, though I was just a child and hated the alcohol flavor, I sure adored those cherries and though I dunked each cherry a few times in my water glass to wash the hooch away, the cherry retained just enough of that flavor that I arrived in adulthood preconditioned to like manhattans. So when I went to my first company Christmas party--the kind that started at noon and no one went back to the office--I ordered a Canadian Club manhattan. And another, and another. Best I recall: five altogether. By dinnertime the worst hangover I've ever had was beginning. My father, whose home I went to that evening, was most amused by my condition and prescribed creme de menthe and soda. Which made me mucho sicker. I have not been able to stand the sight or smell of either since.

Gentleman Jack tasted like those Manhattans. I would swear it was rye. WAY too smooth and sweet, like pancake syrup. I could not drink this.

The Russell was quite another matter. A lot less sweet, woodsy in an attractive way, very spicy and sexy, like certain mens' colognes. Vibrant in the mouth. A little closer to the scotches I so like, but different. I don't know that I would/could ever prefer it to scotch, but it was intriguing and I could taste the quality. And I would definitely like to know more.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Fri May 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Does the charcoal-mellowing make the Tennessee Whiskeys (or is 'whiskies' the correct plural--I typed it that way first but it looks wrong, like cat food ) smokier?


Nope, not at all. Just the reverse, actually. Charcoal mellowing (they don't care for it when you say "filtering") actually makes the whiskey softer and cleaner by taking out flavors---mostly the congeners that are seen as impurities, the higher alcohols and fusel oils---to mellow out the taste profile of the whiskey. But nope, no smokiness.

And re age. Hoke, does this statement of yours "If it says Straight Bourbon, it has to be minimum two years in barrel (any younger, which is rare, and it has to have a specific age statement)" corrolate directly to the ages on the bottles I mentioned--does this imply then, or guarantee, that the Russell I bought was 10 years in barrel? And does it stay in the same barrel, or are whiskeys moved from barrel to barrel in their lifetime?
Simple: any age statement on a bottle of bourbon is the youngest bourbon that goes into it... barrels are mingled all the time; that's the nature and essence of most of the bourbon out there, with the master distiller blending to the house style. A Single Barrel, on the other hand, is the result, anywhere from 15 to maybe 22 cases of yield, depending on evaporation/lenght of aging.

Depending on the house, a basic bourbon that just says 'straight bourbon' will range from 2 to about 7 years old. But you have to be careful with what you expect from an age statement when its made for bourbon, as it depends on what type of warehouse you're using (some are essentially large metal roofed sheds; some are heated limestone block warehouses), where in the warehouse a particular barrel is located (higher up is hotter = more intense maturation; lower down is cooler = less intense maturation and flavor development). Most older and more quality whiskies tend to use what they call the "honey barrels", almost always higher up, where more elevated aromatics develop because you get more penetration, extraction of and concentration of aroma/flavor.

Jenise, the story you relate pretty much indicates, as you think, that you'll never be a true lover of bourbon because of your past experience. Very hard to overcome those experiences of childhood, when a taste reaction becomes 'hard wired' into the nervous and emotional system. :cry:

Oh, and a couple of things I picked up on in this post that maybe I hadn't twigged to in your previous post:

Canadian whiskey, or at least the Canadian whiskey you are used to drinking down here, is NOT RYE. It's mostly wheat, prolly. Some Canadian is rye, but the stuff that comes down here hasn't been rye for a very, very long time. Plus, that type allows flavoring (including lab flavors, fruit juices, sherry and port wine, and caramel).

Gentleman Jack is also not rye. Plus, what I told you about Jack Daniel's? That goes for the regular "Jack Black". The Gentleman Jack is twice charcoal mellowed: once as regular Jack, then again when it comes out of the barrel, all to make it softer and more mellow and with a gentler profile.

Your description of the Russells, however, indicates to me you'd definitely prefer a rye-heavy bourbon or a full rye whiskey. There's definitely a spicier, less sweet than bourbon style there. I suspect when you make your trials---and kudos for you for your willingness to explore a new category---you'll end up in general preferring the rye-heavy to the wheated.

On the other hand, no reason to force it either....big, wide, wonderful world of beverages out there, so there are many, many of them to try.

(On an entirely different note---since you like scotch, and I know you like finding strange and wondrous things to grace your life----if you ever get the chance, try a strange and entirely wonderful whiskey from Japan/Suntory, called Hibiki. The Japanese make their whiskey in the scotch mode (they can't call it scotch, but for all purpose they are doing it in the scotch style), and they can be very, very good. But a specialty whiskey is the Hibiki, where they take their best whiskey and specially age it in small barrels that have previously been used for making a special plum drink the Japanese adore. It is incredible stuff, and well worth seeking out. A rare treat. And I suspect you will love it.)
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Shlomo R » Fri May 20, 2011 12:47 pm

Jenise, let me step in for Hoke on the age statement issue. Bourbon is very much like scotch when it comes to age statements - the number of years must be the number of full calendar years spent in barrel by the youngest product in the mix. You will sometimes get older product blended in, or the barrels may go a few months over the year, but be bottled the same. A few years ago this was a nice bonus for some of us, because of the Heaven Hill warehouse fire of so long ago. When that fire finally caused a gap in their stock of bourbon for their Elijah Craig 18, Heaven Hill opted to use older product in order to maintain the production. Ahh, the days when Elijah Craig 18 was actually 24 years old. Don't get me wrong, though - E.C. 18 is still a great whiskey at a not offensive price of $50.

The charcoal filtration of the Tennessee Whiskey doesn't make the whiskey more smoky - it kind of dumbs it down, acting like an activated carbon filter and stripping a fair bit of excitement out of the whiskey (okay, that's my opinion of the flavor - I'm sure the distillers feel that it mellows the whiskey and makes it smoother, adding to it's appeal).

I'll second Hoke's recommendation for Elmer T. Lee.

Hoke, you misunderstood my comments on Wild Turkey. I said Kentucky Spirit is WT's best product, not the best product on the market. With regard to WT Rye, I get it for $23, and many of the more recent entries into the rye market are priced much, much higher. To be perfectly honest, I have an open bottle of Thomas Handy Rye, and it's very good, but I'd rather spend $70 on 3 bottles of WT Rye than the one bottle of Handy. I'll try to get hold of a bottle of Rittenhouse. Regardless, Wild Turkey is not my preferred bourbon.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Mike Filigenzi » Fri May 20, 2011 1:22 pm

Wow - sorry to hear about that Manhattan incident, Jenise! A good rye Manhattan has been my favorite cocktail for a number of years now, and I've been working my way through a lot of different ones. No other quite stacks up in terms of complexity and easy elegance.

I'll chime in with Hoke on the Rittenhouse 100 proof. To me, that's the single best buy in all of alcohol-dom. The Wild Turkey Rye is also good, but I give the edge to the Rittenhouse and it runs a buck or two cheaper in these parts. Catoctin Creek makes a wonderful rye, more on the lush end of things than WT or Rittenhouse, but still very tasty.

And Hoke - that info on bourbon sounded quite familiar. Where have I heard that before...? :wink:
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Fri May 20, 2011 1:30 pm

Hoke, you misunderstood my comments on Wild Turkey. I said Kentucky Spirit is WT's best product, not the best product on the market.
And I'd agree, for sure, that the Kentucky Spirit is good whiskey.

With regard to WT Rye, I get it for $23, and many of the more recent entries into the rye market are priced much, much higher. To be perfectly honest, I have an open bottle of Thomas Handy Rye, and it's very good, but I'd rather spend $70 on 3 bottles of WT Rye than the one bottle of Handy. I'll try to get hold of a bottle of Rittenhouse.
Since I have no idea what your prices would be, it's hard to gauge these things. Hope the price of the Rittenhouse is good; I think it should be. One thing I can tell you is I honestly think you'll appreciate it when you do get it. If you're feeling gourmet and are loaded, get one of the special 23 or 25 year old releases; they are worth it! On the other hand, I'm like you in that I'd prolly rather have three good bottles of rye than one spectacularly good bottle fo rye, if I had to make that choice. :D

Regardless, Wild Turkey is not my preferred bourbon.
No, not mine either. It's not that I don't like the quality of WT---it's that I don't like the origin and history of WT and the evolution of their preferred style, which is and was from the beginning an intentional over-statement of certain elements of bourbon, resulting in what I think is an essential imbalance of what I perceive as the holy grail of bourbon. Obviously, there are a hell of a lot of people that disagree with me on that, as WT is wildly popular. And that's fine. It just doesn't end up being anywhere close to the style of bourbon I prefer, thassall. (For those of you who have no idea what Shlomo and I are talking about, WT originally was a special construct bourbon---a bourbon without a home distiller, actually---done by an aficionado who wanted a rough, rugged, almost 'rotgut' style of whiskey, he purchased whiskey stock from other distilleries and made his own, primarily by using what's called 'alligator char', a heavy, deep down burn into the wood, combined with higher proof levels (The famous WT101) for a more robust drink. Trouble is, I think it puts the balance of the whiskey out of whack. But that's just my preference, mind you. WT, to me, when it started out, was the equivalent for the wine geek side of me of some of those heavy-handed, over-ripe fruit bombs that have been enjoying popularity of late. On the other hand, I do like Jimmy Russell's more personal and more sophisticated interpretations of bourbon and rye.

Oh, and another thing, being hopelessly pedantic, I have to add: the story you tell of Heaven Hill is true...but there's another side to the story too. (I was there, by the way, and watching the night of the HH fire, when the creeks literally were afire from the runoff of burning alcohol.) HH did indeed use old stocks, because they had to. But the other distillers banded together and agreed to help out HH in their years of need, and offered up existing stocks to help them out, as well as agreeing to long term arrangments to make the necessary volumes at their distilleries for Heaven Hill, so the company could maintain the flow of spirits until their new distillery was back in production and their warehouses were back in balance again. So some people benefited from the old stuff (the EJ story you mentioned); and many people benefited from the goodwill of the other distilleries in their support of Heaven Hill (and still are). I thought that was a story worth telling in this all to cynical world.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Fri May 20, 2011 1:36 pm

Mike, I thought you drank Brandy Manhattans in your household???? :twisted:

As you are more than well aware, I share your appreciation of a great classic Manhattan. Hell, I also share appreciation for all the various and sundry incarnations and derivations of all the Manhattan cocktails out there. Like women, I love almost every single one, or would if I could. 8)

Catoctin, hmmm? I'll look for it.

Ref the whiskey info familiarity---yeah, I'm doing more of that than ever before. Also, dude, you guys have to come up here so we can explore all the micro-distilleries that are proliferating. Some exciting things going on. Come up during the Great American Distillers Festival, when they come from all over the world to abet the ones already here. It coincides with Portland Cocktail Week for an extra hit of unbearable excitement!

Invitation stands, as always.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Diane (Long Island) » Fri May 20, 2011 3:44 pm

Now, I'm curious to know what is considered a classic Manhattan. My first Manhattan, prepared for me at a bar in Sedona by the owner, was his favorite version of a Manhattan. Maker's Mark and dry vermouth, and that's what I thought was a Manhattan until years later, a friend insisted that the cocktail was made with rye. I still stick to Bourbon, but now have a strong preference for Blanton's, and have learned that what I drink is a perfect Manhattan.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by JC (NC) » Fri May 20, 2011 6:26 pm

I'm also a fan of the Basil Hayden which has a little more rye than some bourbons. I don't drink much bourbon but went to a bourbon dinner in Raleigh that was guided by a woman who grew up in Kentucky. We also had the Maker's Mark (maybe that was the one we had in a mint julep--I forget) and some small barrel bourbons but the Basil Hayden stood out for me and is not terribly expensive. Maybe I'll have a glass tomorrow evening to mark the unRapture event.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Mike Filigenzi » Fri May 20, 2011 6:48 pm

Diane (Long Island) wrote:Now, I'm curious to know what is considered a classic Manhattan. My first Manhattan, prepared for me at a bar in Sedona by the owner, was his favorite version of a Manhattan. Maker's Mark and dry vermouth, and that's what I thought was a Manhattan until years later, a friend insisted that the cocktail was made with rye. I still stick to Bourbon, but now have a strong preference for Blanton's, and have learned that what I drink is a perfect Manhattan.



I believe the classic recipe is 2:1 whiskey (rye or bourbon) to sweet vermouth with a couple of dashes of Angostura bitters. I think some old versions also included a dash or two of absinthe, Maraschino, and/or gum syrup. As Hoke alluded to, there are quite a few variants. I personally go for the version I listed first, with brandy sub'd in for whiskey when I make them for my wife.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Fri May 20, 2011 9:29 pm

What Mike said.

One of the 'standard' variants is the so-called Perfect Manhattan, which divvies up the vermouth to half sweet/half dry. Some people like it. I'm okay on it, but prefer something closer to a classic.

Best one I've had is a Manhattan with either Woodford Reserve, Old Forester 100, or Old Rittenhouse Rye, with Carpano Antica Originale Vermouth (the original recipe, and considerably more aromatic, flavorful and less sweet than a standard sweet vermouth), and a dash or two of bitters.

Even though I don't generally like sweet Manhattans, one that is palatable (actually, good) is to make the Manhattan and slip a splash of maraschino cherry juice in there---especially if you have a jar of the Luxardo marinated cherries (marinated in Luxardo Maraska cherry liqueur). Some kinda wonderful.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Jenise » Sat May 21, 2011 9:32 am

Hoke wrote:Canadian whiskey, or at least the Canadian whiskey you are used to drinking down here, is NOT RYE. It's mostly wheat, prolly. Some Canadian is rye, but the stuff that comes down here hasn't been rye for a very, very long time. Plus, that type allows flavoring (including lab flavors, fruit juices, sherry and port wine, and caramel).


I just went to look into Canadian, and the Wikipedia entry for CC is extremely interesting! (It claims CC is rye, corn and barley.) I was amused at how it got the word 'Club' into its name, and can just imagine how influential the whole 'gentleman's club' aura about it would have been to my dad. You probably know the whole story, but in case someone else doesn't....

Hiram Walker founded his distillery in 1858 in Detroit. He first learned how to distill cider vinegar in his grocery store in the 1830s before moving on to whisky and producing his first barrels in 1854. However, with the prohibition movement gathering momentum and Michigan already becoming "dry", Walker decided to move his distillery across the Detroit River to Windsor, Ontario. From here, he was able to export his whisky, continue to perfect the distillation process and start to develop Walkerville, a community that Walker financed and sourced most of his employees from.

Walker's whisky was particularly popular in the late 19th century gentlemen's clubs of the U.S. and Canada; hence it became known as "Club Whisky". Walker originally positioned his Club Whisky as a premium liquor, pitching it not only on its smoothness and purity but also the length of the aging process (Walker’s whisky was aged in oak barrels for a minimum of five years). This was revolutionary at the time, as all of the U.S. bourbons and whiskies were aged for less than a year.

Club Whisky became very popular and American distillers petitioned for the inclusion of the word “Canada” on the bottle to distinguish it from their competing whiskies, thinking it would halt the popularity of Walker’s. This backfired, only making Club Whisky more exclusive. Walker saw this and changed the label again in 1889 adding the word “Canadian” to the top of the label, distinguishing Walker’s recipe for his whisky from the other processes of the time (Scotch, Irish and U.S.). Hiram blended corn and barley in addition to rye before putting it in the barrels for maturation, a recipe that is now renowned throughout the world as that of Canadian whisky.

Canadian Club Logo
In 1890, the word “Canadian” was moved down from the top of the label and incorporated into the name of the whisky. This, however, was only temporary, as three years later the logo was changed again, transforming from a bold font into the scripted typeface that we see worldwide today (See logo above).

It was not until the American government introduced the Bottled in bond law in 1894 that the people of America really started drinking Canadian Club. It was thanks to the passing of this law that all whiskey labelling had to include maturation time. This re-affirmed the fact that aging whisky was not just a fad and that, generally speaking, the older the whisky, the better the quality.

Walker's distillery went to his sons upon his death in 1899. Over the years, the family has branched out into other businesses. At one point, the Walkers employed almost the entire population of Walkerville, where they built police and fire stations, brought in running water and installed street lights. In 1890, the Canadian government acknowledged Walkerville as a legal town. It was incorporated into Windsor in 1935.

During the years of Prohibition, one of the distillery’s most important clients was Chicago gangster Al Capone. He smuggled in thousands of cases of Canadian Club via a route from Windsor to Detroit.


Gentleman Jack is also not rye. Plus, what I told you about Jack Daniel's? That goes for the regular "Jack Black". The Gentleman Jack is twice charcoal mellowed: once as regular Jack, then again when it comes out of the barrel, all to make it softer and more mellow and with a gentler profile.


Well, that helps put it in context. Before tasting the bourbons, I was thinking, to save space (the liquor cabinet is running out of room) I should pour what's left of the Gentleman Jack into the bottle of regular Jack, but now I think that would be unfair to regular Jack. :) Maybe I'll just make a big vat of BBQ sauce next week and use it up that way.

Your description of the Russells, however, indicates to me you'd definitely prefer a rye-heavy bourbon or a full rye whiskey. There's definitely a spicier, less sweet than bourbon style there.

(On an entirely different note---since you like scotch, and I know you like finding strange and wondrous things to grace your life----if you ever get the chance, try a strange and entirely wonderful whiskey from Japan/Suntory, called Hibiki.


I'll look for it next time I go to Seattle. I'm fairly sure there'd be no point trying to find it in Bellingham.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Shlomo R » Sat May 21, 2011 11:13 pm

Hoke wrote:Oh, and another thing, being hopelessly pedantic, I have to add: the story you tell of Heaven Hill is true...but there's another side to the story too. (I was there, by the way, and watching the night of the HH fire, when the creeks literally were afire from the runoff of burning alcohol.) HH did indeed use old stocks, because they had to. But the other distillers banded together and agreed to help out HH in their years of need, and offered up existing stocks to help them out, as well as agreeing to long term arrangments to make the necessary volumes at their distilleries for Heaven Hill, so the company could maintain the flow of spirits until their new distillery was back in production and their warehouses were back in balance again. So some people benefited from the old stuff (the EJ story you mentioned); and many people benefited from the goodwill of the other distilleries in their support of Heaven Hill (and still are). I thought that was a story worth telling in this all to cynical world.[/color]


Thanks for the info, Hoke. Very interesting, and I'm glad to know it.
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Jenise » Sun May 22, 2011 7:42 am

Mike Filigenzi wrote:Wow - sorry to hear about that Manhattan incident, Jenise! A good rye Manhattan has been my favorite cocktail for a number of years now, and I've been working my way through a lot of different ones. No other quite stacks up in terms of complexity and easy elegance.


In a way it's odd, in that I've acquired a number of long-term aversions over the years because I got sick (flus, food poisoning, what have you) after eating something, but I've gotten over every one of them except this. You and Hoke make me feel a bit of a rube in that I drink virtually no cocktails--I do adore dark rum gimlets, but more as a sunny summer day outdoors kind of drink. And I do love Scotch, but tend not to drink it as a cocktail as opposed to after dinner on nights we skip wine with dinner--when I make an exception to that, it will be to enjoy a single malt straight up in an ice cold martini glass. Otherwise, white wine's my cocktail.

Last night, btw, we had a little glass of bourbon after dinner, the Russell. Liked it even better than a few days ago--I actually think I could warm up to this quite well.

And a question: at the state store, there was a bottle of clear stuff called White Dog from a Washington producer called the Woodinville Spirits Company on the bourbon shelf. Was this a mistake, or is this white dog possibly what has been called 'white lightening', and is that the pure distillate sans barrel aging? If so, what do people do with that?
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Sun May 22, 2011 11:16 am

White Dog---also known by distillers as "new make whiskey", isn't 'white lightin', but it is new distillate of whiskey.

All whiskey---all distilled ethanol---comes out crystal clear. The color and most of the flavor comes from the barrel maturation. Recently, the trend has developed for a handful of distillers to release White Dog, so we're seeing some of those on the market. Buffalo Trace, for instance, has one out.

It's a trendy thing. And I believe (hope) it will fade, quite frankly. It's not that I don't like clear spirits; I do. Just don't care all that much for a spirit that is made to be aged to then be released as clear. Also, not a big fan of clear grain distillates that are unaged. Don't really see the point of it, frankly: if I want clear distillates, I'll go with a fruit distillate (brandy). White Dog, to me, is simply a waste of what could have been perfectly good whiskey in a couple of years. :D

But some folks are naturally fascinated at the raw spirit---it's an oddity to them---so they purchase it and try it. It tends to be fruity, with the fairly clear essence of grain base, but not a whole lot else. Try it. You may or may not like it. Suggest you don't buy a bottle, else you'll probably have it for a long time.

The Woodinville Whiskey folks are good people, dedicated artisans, and whiskey lovers. They make decent product. A really neat thing they're doing---which I think is fantastic!---is they've now released an "Age Your Own Whiskey" package, wherein you get a couple of bottles of their White Dog, a couple of tiny oak barrels and a little funnel-----and you can age you own whiskey! Fascinates the do-it-yourselfers and is educational at the same time. And of course gives bragging rights to people with their friends and guests. I can see Bill Spohn, for instance, doing something like that (while he's secretly drinking his good scotch in the back room.)

The difference, Jenise, from White Dog and white lightnin' is that the Dog is made legally and in accordance with the rules of the different beverages, and white lightnin' is made illicitly and thus without any rules. Which generally means it is made in a cruder way and there's little to no attention to pulling off the good stuff from the still. In white lightnin' you don't generally have the fine distinction between heads-hearts-tails, thus you have a much higher incidence of methanol (wood alcohols), fusel oils, unwanted aldehydes, etc., the oils and chemicals that taste foul and can do inconvenient things like, oh, blind you and kill you.

Another thing you can now aspire to, once we seduce you back into the wonderful world of whiskies (it might happen!) is several of the distilleries are now offering a 'select your own barrel" or "blend your own whiskey". You can travel to some of these distilleries, sit with the Master Disitller, either select a single barrel of your choosing, or blend several samples into your own blend, then have that selected whiskey bottled up and labeled for you. Plus, you get the barrel it was aged in! (Costs vary, but you can figure roughly from 15--20 cases (depending on the age/fill of the barrel)...so 20 cases at $40 a bottle would be $9600.

Hurry, get your club of tasters together and split up the cost of a barrel. (I just worked with a group that did just that, actually.) It's quite the popular thing to do.

You can now do this with Reposado Tequila, by the way. Anyone up for a trip to Tequila???
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Sun May 22, 2011 11:55 am

Jenise, re cocktails and the consumption and appreciation thereof:

For a long, long time, I avoided cocktails and mixed drinks. Think it was a reaction the doldrums that part of the biz was in, as much as my professional/personal fixation on wine.

I drank some cocktails when I was young---but when I got into wine, my tastes changed and I didn't want many sweet cocktails (which many of them were then) and I didn't want a bunch of mucked up flavors (which many of them were then).

But with the still-developing trend towards craft bartending and the combination of the spirits explosion and pride in artisanal creation by drinkmakers, and the incredible creativity combined with mastery of craft that the "new" bartenders are striving for, I rediscovered the joys of the cocktail a few years ago.

Mind you, my preference is still for the classics, but some of the new drinks are incredibly creative without being mucky---they follow some fairly rigid guidelines in terms of emphasizing flavors and tastes, and they are, in their mode, as much a revolution as the various cuisine revolutions we have been through once cooking became popular again. :D

It's a world I couldn't ignore...and didn't want to.

I understand people who focus primarily---or only---on wine. I know. But my horizon, like Mike Filigenzi's, manages to include spirits and wines now, and they can indeed be mutually beneficial.

Plus, the same general rules of wine appreciation apply: how to distinguish between the industrial swill and the good stuff; how to focus on quality and passion; how to find the 1% that is superb and avoid the crap.

And spirits, now, are simply a point in the scale, like wine, on the ability to appreciate the concentration of that alchemical delight that fermentation and distillation bring to our lives (if we're lucky).
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Shlomo R » Sun May 22, 2011 10:53 pm

Jenise, I like a wide variety of ethanol - tequila, beer, scotch, bourbon, rye, a few rums, and kosher brandy, cognac and wine. I almost never drink cocktails - I haven't got the patience for the mixology myself, and have only a few places where I can get a decently made cocktail.

Hoke, I tend to agree with you on most of the new make spirit out there, especially since most of it carries offensively high price tags. About 5-6 weeks ago, however, I attended a tasting event in NYC where I tried Heaven Hill's Newmake Rye, which is supposed to retail at about $25. Honestly, this was a newmake spirit interesting enough in its own right (although I wouldn't object to trying it with a few years aging as well).
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Hoke » Mon May 23, 2011 12:16 am

Shlomo, I've been hearing about the HH New Make Rye, but haven't had it yet. There's some decent enough new make out there, I have no doubt (there are some artisanal versions from around here that aren't bad)---it's just that I've never had one that was interesting enough to pursue any further than a sip.

I have some bartender friends that get revved up over the stuff as a base for cocktails, or at least an informing spirit, but again: I don't see the worth of it. If I wanted a white spirit with a grain profile, I'd use Bols Genever, since that's a malted barley base. (So is most of the local stuff in the Northwest, by the way: it tends to be mostly malt, and a few people using wheat. No corn 'round here, and not had the rye. Suspect rye would fill out the holes and add some much needed spice.

As to cocktails, there again, I'm fortunate to be living in Portland---this place is a hotbed for great bars and bartenders. Easiest thing in the world to find great cocktails pretty much anywhere you go. Helps that a bunch of them are friends of mine too. :D
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Re: So, about bourbon

by Bob Sisak » Mon May 23, 2011 8:55 am

There are a lot more ryes out there than I believe I've seen above. Over the past few months, I've had a number that are worthy of mention (for one reason or another). Rittenhouse, as noted, is right at the top of the heap. Another wonderful, but expensive one, is the 23 yo from Black Maple Hill, followed by Old Portrero from Anchor Distilling. Old Portrero is a 100% 2 yo rye that would probably benefit from another few years of age. A bit further down line, but nice ryes in their own right, are Bulleitt, Redemption and (RI)1. Redemption is a 95% 2 1/2 yo that is surprisingly inexpensive at under $30. Quite nice for what it is. There are several others, many of which have already been mentioned above.

As for bourbon, my current favorite is the Black Maple Hill Small Batch.

Disclaimer: I get to try many, many spirits at my job and I'm able to recommend what our shop carries.
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