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David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36369
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
wnissen wrote:
Certainly it does not help that the federal government charges a fee (not to mention the increased headache) to change the alcohol level on a label.
Howie Hart
The Hart of Buffalo
6389
Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm
Niagara Falls, NY
Instrumentation is really not necessary. There are several independent labs that provide detailed wine analysis, and they're not that expensive. In fact, from posts I read on another website, some home wine makers even use the labs. One popular lab is at Virginia Tech. That being said, I don't use a lab, but do put the abv on my home wine labels, based on the potential alcohol scale of my hydrometer, which is about 55% of the Brix (% sugar). This is pretty close and works for whites, rosés and reds that don't see a barrel.wnissen wrote:...Not every winery has a tank big enough to fit an entire vintage, and they certainly don't all have $16,000 Alcolyzer instruments...
David M. Bueker wrote:Actually, according to winemakers who have posted on this topic on other sites, the government label approvals do not include alcohol level in the approval.
What states do (and yes, states get their say as well) I am not sure.
Howie Hart
The Hart of Buffalo
6389
Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm
Niagara Falls, NY
Howie Hart wrote: That being said, I don't use a lab, but do put the abv on my home wine labels, based on the potential alcohol scale of my hydrometer, which is about 55% of the Brix (% sugar). This is pretty close and works for whites, rosés and reds that don't see a barrel.
Peter May
Pinotage Advocate
4086
Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am
Snorbens, England
Jim Grow wrote:I believe it is still legal and I still see it done to not reveal any alcohol level on a wine if it is under %15 and labeled "table wine".
Peter May wrote:This is a non-story.
It is not as if US law required wineries to print an accurate alcohol percentage.
Brian Gilp wrote:Wine and Spirits did a similar type of snapshot last fall. They used City Winery and Crushpad to test 84 wines using Ebulliometer to test alcohol. Half were US (all west coast) and the other half were rest of the world. Of the US wines tested 27 had more alcohol than stated on the label. Of the world wines tested 26 had more alcohol than stated on the label. All total there were 53 wines that had higher alcohol than stated, 13 where it was as stated, and 18 where the alcohol was lower than the lable. A few interesting points; of the 20 Australian wines tested 7 had less alcohol than on the label and the only country that had the same over as under was Argentina but it was only 3 wines tested. France and Italy were both 3 over to 1 under.
Not sure how much one can conclude from small sample sizes such as this as they relate to the larger context of alcohol content reported on the label. Also not sure how acurate one test method is compared to another or the process variability. When I look at the label I just assume +/- 0.3%.
wnissen wrote:Brian Gilp wrote:Wine and Spirits did a similar type of snapshot last fall. They used City Winery and Crushpad to test 84 wines using Ebulliometer to test alcohol. Half were US (all west coast) and the other half were rest of the world. Of the US wines tested 27 had more alcohol than stated on the label. Of the world wines tested 26 had more alcohol than stated on the label. All total there were 53 wines that had higher alcohol than stated, 13 where it was as stated, and 18 where the alcohol was lower than the lable. A few interesting points; of the 20 Australian wines tested 7 had less alcohol than on the label and the only country that had the same over as under was Argentina but it was only 3 wines tested. France and Italy were both 3 over to 1 under.
Not sure how much one can conclude from small sample sizes such as this as they relate to the larger context of alcohol content reported on the label. Also not sure how acurate one test method is compared to another or the process variability. When I look at the label I just assume +/- 0.3%.
Dear Brian,
Thanks for the follow-up. The sample size is small but the data are overwhelming. There's just no way that you can have random variation that runs 3 to 1. Putting +/- implies says that you're as likely to be over as under, so I think my rule of thumb will be to add +.5%.
Walt
Oliver McCrum
Wine guru
1076
Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:08 am
Oakland, CA; Cigliè, Piedmont
David M. Bueker
Childless Cat Dad
36369
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am
Connecticut
Oliver McCrum wrote:From talking to CA producers, my sense is that it's common to understate by the permissable 1.0. The government only gets involved if the taxes aren't being properly paid, ie if the wine says 13.9 and it's actually 14.1 they are very interested. (I'd be curious to know how many producers understate by more than 1.0...)
I would be curious whether the accuracy of the label was related to the level of alcohol. I would expect to see more understatement at the higher levels of alcohol, there's no motive to understate if you're naturally low.
David Creighton
Wine guru
1217
Wed May 24, 2006 10:07 am
ann arbor, michigan
wnissen wrote:Brian, could you please post a link to the raw data? I'm having trouble finding it. Thanks.
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