Trends in your wine tastes over time?

I've always been fascinated by the "journey" of the wine lovers I know: why they enjoy certain styles and not others, how their tastes change with time/experience, etc.

One of the trends I've noticed is how, as individuals become more experienced and knowledgeable in their wine drinking, they seem to gravitate more towards wines that are less fruit (and/or oak) orientated, more structured (i.e., with potentially higher acidity and phenolic content), and become more interested in non-fruit/non-oak flavours like vegetal/earthy/funky/animally/mineral flavours. (I'm not saying that individuals necessarily lose their earlier tastes for bigger, more fruit- and oak-flavour-orientated wines, just that there is a trend towards a greater appreciation of more structured, less fruit/oak-flavour-orientated wines (which is often, though not always, accompanied by a reduced pleasure/appreciation of wines that are less structured and whose flavours are more fruit and/or oak orientated.)

This generalised trend seems to perhaps be more representative of individuals who began exploring wine during (and after) the 1990's, since the trend at that time in many markets (e.g. the UK, USA, Canada and Australia) seems to have been towards drinking bigger, more fruit- (and perhaps more oak-) orientated wines; and individuals who first got seriously into wines at that time (or after) have then progressed in their "wine drinking journey" and (at leats in part) moved on. The trend is perhaps less true of individuals who began drinking prior to the late 1980's (at least within those markets mentioned above), who might have begun their "journey" with, for example, claret rather than, for example, Cali Cab or Aussie Shiraz.

I recognise comments/conceptualisations of this kind (on the trends in drinking preference) can only ever be gross generalisations, but the generalisations above nevertheless seem to be observable for many people who get into wine as a seriousl interest. I'd be interested to hear from the WLDG community:
*Does the above mentioned (generalised) trend ring true for the experience of yourself or other wine lovers you know? If not, why not?
*How long have your and those wine lovers you know been drinking wine with attention/reflection/serious interest?
*Have you noticed your drinking preferences for certain styles change significantly over time, or do you continue to drink all styles with equal appreciation/pleasure (i.e., you perhaps take more the position that it's a matter of the "right wine for the right mood/context")?
*Have you noticed any trends in the habits of yourself and/or your wine loving friends as they have gained in experience and knowledge and, if so, what have those trends been?

The historical timing component is interesting because it raises the question of what arc people follow if they got into wine in recent years when natural wine was popular and everyone was dissing overoaked Chardonnays and the like. At the same time, there probably is something about big obvious flavors that appeal to newbies, regardless of the stylistic trends.

That said, I got into wine in the late 90s/early 00s primarily through the Loire Valley. It was a coincidence, based on my French teacher here in the States (from Orleans) who used to pour the wines for me, and then some travels to the Loire (initially not for wine purposes). I don't know if that formation set my palate, because when I did catch the bug I expanded to try richer wines. But I pretty quickly (less than a year) honed in on the virtuous minerally mono-cepage line of Loire-Burgundy-Northern Rhone-Piedmont-MSR-Austria.

Ben,

I have to respectfully disagree. Fruit is very important and experienced wine geeks want fruit but they may not want sweetness. You need to separate fruit from sugar/sweetness.

I do think that many (not all!) new to wine equate wood/oak with quality and they tend to favor it. Over time the more experienced person generally prefers wood/oak in smaller amounts integrated with many other characteristics (as opposed to oak that hits you over the head).

So, I guess I agree on the oak/wood but disagree on the fruit. Of course we are generalizing here.

[David M. Bueker]

Ben,

I've been "into wine" for close to 20 years now (scary thought), and while some of what you write rings true for me (coming to enjoy earthy, funky elements over time), the moving away from fruit does not work for me at all. I've never been a huge fan of oak (with some notable exceptions), but I have always enjoyed fruit and even sweetness when it is balanced.

From a wine journey standpoint, I started with mostly Zinfandel (huge Ravenswood fan then got into Ridge), then the German Riesling thunderbolt hit me, and I have never moved away from it. Over time I came to appreciate a broader range of wines, rather than (with the exception of the truly high octane Cali wines) discarding things I once liked in favor of new areas/wines. Now some wine regions have moved away from my taste center (e.g. recent Chateauneuf vintages), but my issue is that the circle is still expanding, rather than contracting/focusing on a different, smaller group of wines.

And then there's the old argument about people shifting back to big fruity obvious wines in their old age, because that's all they can taste. I'm too young to speak to that directly, perhaps Lou has some insight on this

i remember when i first got into wine - more than 40 years ago - that i had a good bottle of white burgundy with a friend before dinner. we both opined that it was ok; but that we would have liked a red wine even more. over the years i find myself drinking more whites for pleasure - drinking more champagne as well - and drinking hardly any CA or AU or SA wines. fruit is one thing - and i like it better than oak; but the current fad of lots of cool fermented monotone fruit bores me. and the overripe fruit that gets all jammy and portlike just doesn't go with food - nor more importantly with my sense of aesthetic. but most importantly, i now appreciate cleanly made wines and NO, i do NOT like animal and similar smells associated with Brett to any degree. just last night i had to throw out a '99 Pegau CdP Reserve. it was all Brett all the time. found solice in a '95 Mordoree. still, southern Rhones in particular hold less appeal than they did in the beginning of my journy. of course southern rhones have gone up nearly 2% in ABV and miles in ripenss since i started as well. now its all about sublety and elegance for me.

My introduction into wine was Germany, because that's where I lived when I first started appreciating wine. It rather quickly expanded to include French wines, largely Burgundy and Bordeaux, because quite frankly that was what was what was available in America then. The Rhone, Loire, Alsace (except for ethnic enclaves), and Languedoc-Roussillon were pretty much nonexistent, especially outside of the major east coast cities.

As wine expanded, the California paradigm took over and exerted tremendous influence---which led to the fruit bomb/oak explosion, or rather, the larger explosion of 'everything bigger is better, of which the fruit/oak was a major component part.

My own personal development was largely directed then by being in the business. My specific job was twofold, partly toward the company I worked for and partly toward the customer base. I was supposed to be as totally knowledgeable as possible on as many wines as possible from as many areas as possible, so I could both give advice internally and externally, to make the right business decisions and achieve the right balance and product mix.

This meant I had to be as familiar as possible with everything, but to also stay tuned to the zeitgeist of what customers wanted to drink (and sometimes before they knew they wanted to drink it).

My own personal arc, however---what I prefer to drink for myself---is necessarily influenced by all this, and I've never lost my love for exploration and education in the whole wonderful and fascinating world of wine, but I realize I have more of a "European" palate---the mineral and funky and earthy rather than the overtly and egregiously fruity.

But what I want more than anything is BALANCE. Neither too much fruit nor too much minerality. Neither boneless nor screechy. Balance. That's what it should always be about. There is nothing more impressive than a wine that lulls you away from dissecting it and analyzing it to simply appreciating how wonderful it is and being amazed by it.

*Does the above mentioned (generalised) trend ring true for the experience of yourself or other wine lovers you know? If not, why not?
*How long have your and those wine lovers you know been drinking wine with attention/reflection/serious interest?
*Have you noticed your drinking preferences for certain styles change significantly over time, or do you continue to drink all styles with equal appreciation/pleasure (i.e., you perhaps take more the position that it's a matter of the "right wine for the right mood/context")?
*Have you noticed any trends in the habits of yourself and/or your wine loving friends as they have gained in experience and knowledge and, if so, what have those trends been?

Ben,

Speaking for myself, my wine preferences never followed any particular order, although I have had certain fixed preferences throughout the years - pretty much right from the get-go.

I got into wine appreciation rather abruptly, near the end of 1997. Before that, all I had ever known were cheap wines of poor quality that people served, obligatorily, at "special occasions" - e.g. Piat d'Or, Blue Nun, Black Tower, Maria Christina, etc. I always got a sharp headache after even a small glass of this type of wine, and so I naturally concluded (falsely, but I didn't know it at the time) that "wine didn't agree with me".

Then, I chucked all forms of pop that same year for beer. I never enjoyed mass-market beers, and went straight for the diverse beer world immediately: I instantly started experimenting with dark beers, lambics, wheat beers (Hefeweizen), microbrews, etc. Shortly after that, I began exploring wine by variety - e.g. Cabs, Hungarian Bikavérs, and eventually Maréchal Foch, which really cemented my love of wine.

The thing that has been consistent over the years is a preference for the artisanal, for dryness and structure, and originality. I am a fan of most forms of funk (so long as it isn't overpowering), and that includes the odd dose of brett.

I don't like "cookie cutter" anything, and really dislike it when the market sees the demise of original, personality-laden wines in favour for what I call "politically correct" wines: those that are "designed to be inoffensive". But, such is life - and I am always on the lookout for stuff outside the mainstream.

My wine journey started started in the late 50s/early 60s. That's much earlier than most people's here. In those days in the UK where I was brought up, the only "serious" wines were claret, Burgundy, hock, Moselle, port, sherry and Madeira. Except for occasional approving nods towards Barolo, Côte Rôtie and CndP, the rest of French regional wines along with Italian and Spanish were for quaffing on holidays in the areas concerned while New World wines were hardly on the map at all.

The first widening of my horizons occurred in the 70s on business trips to Spain when I drank some very fine Riojas (incredibly cheap at the time) and on holiday in Florence I encountered some fine well aged Chianti at Sabatini.

Since then the wine world has opened up and exciting new flavours continue to emerge from unexpected places. Most of the French wine I now drink comes from regions which I ignored in the 60s such as the Loire, Rhône, Languedoc/Roussillon and Sud-Ouest and my choice of Italian and Spanish wines has widened immeasurably. Lately I been excited by the wines of NW Spain such as Bierzo, Rias Baixas and Valdeorras Godello as well as by Etna from Sicily and Aglianico based wines from S.Italy.

Quite frankly I have never taken to the fruit forward and oaky New World style which tends to blur any exciting new flavours which may exist and make the resulting wines taste similar. Sadly, however, this style seems to be making headway in European wineries as well as in the New World - see my WTN on Lagrézette. I have tasted wines from producers in New World countries who make wines in a less "in your face" and more elegant style but they are not readily available here because consumers who turn away from European wines usually like the caricatural New World approach.

However, if Rahsaan is right, when I get really "old", I may yet graduate to this style.

As was said balance seems to be the key. But one person's balance can be anothers too much or too little of something.

I do believe a lot of ppl, Americans anyway, get into wine with something a bit sweet, such as white zin, KJ chard. That's because there's something familiar there for the taste buds to relate to since we seem to have a sweet tooth. You have to acquire a taste for the less familiar over time.

I doubt too many had their first shot of expensive scotch and went, "Wow, this is great!" Although come to think of it my first wow wine that I can recall was a Concannon Petite Sirah. I did, however, go through a grey reisling, white zin, etc. phase, luckily short-lived. LOL

I think big fruit, big oak, low acids, and alcohol can all be perceived as sweetness, not just R.S. So those components can "help" if you are used to drinking Pepsi, having sugar in your tea, etc.

In the "old days" Cab was #1, Zin #2 for me, anything else a distant 3rd. Over the last several years I've migrated to more Pinots because, I think, Calif finally learned how to make good ones. Now the trick is to find ones that don't finish hot. That is, I haven't totally migrated along with Calif wine styles to the "fruit uber alles" trend.

I agree with Ben but I also see what David is saying and find myself agreeing with Hoke most of all.

My journey started with Spanish wines. My parents lived there when I was little and we used to drink Paternina Banda Azul Rioja for every nice meal and Vino de Mesa at other times (I left Spain when I was 7 so you can see we had liberal views on underage drinking). For some reason my parents lost their appreciation of wine and resorted to plonk like Don Cortez and all the really bad French stuff the British supermarkets sold in the 80s.

In 1989 I went on gite holiday to the Dordogne with some University friends and a couple of wine books. Every night we tried differnt wines and tried to see understand the flavours we were finding. That holiday was my epiphany and from then on I read as much as I could, experimented as much as my budget would allow and developed my palate as much as any underprivileged twenty-something can. From 1990 to 1994 I got really into Australian and then New Zealand wines. I suppose they were well-made and obvious examples of their grape varieites and that really helps when learning. South African was often dirty tasting. Chilean was a boring version of Australia. Italy was confusing and oftten a waste of money. Californian was good but often more pricey than an equivalent Australian. Spain and Portugal offered good value and plenty of variety but nothing really outstanding. German Riesling was for rare occasions and France offered a playground of variety. Some brilliant, some weird, some dull, some nasty. I think the mid 90s in Britain was a golden era for wine. The supermarkets prided themselves on finding good value own-label wines, there were plenty of small independant merchants and there was Oddbins. A brilliant store with young, well-informed, enthusiastic staff and an inspired range of wines.

In 1999 I went to New York for work and was forced to start again with my wine discoveries. Most of the wines I'd grown to love could not be found. There was no equivalent of Oddbins. There weren't even any supermarkets. There were plenty of Eyetalians selling massively overpriced Italian wines and quite a few Indian-owned wine shops who had a massive range that they knew nothing about. Fortunately I lived on Chambers Street and had a great little merchant who at the time had a wonderful range of Loire wines. I found it funny that all the wines had a sticker underneath with a percentage score. I'd not seen that before. I tried some of the high scoring wines. They were very concentrated, oaky and well polished. I also discovered Chelsea Wine Market and a couple of other treasure troves who stocked wine for wine-lovers instead of characters from American Psycho.

I started to drink a lot of wine from the Pacific Northwest which seemed to me to offer the styles I'd liked from Australia and New Zealand. Even on my Wall Street salary, I couldn't justify the expense of the Californian wines I really liked. I also tried the local Hudson River and Long Island wines. My word, that would be the worst set of wines I have ever seen for sale. I did find one winery - Whitecliff - who were doing a good job and we bought their wines regularly.

After September 11, a lot of things changed for me. Work colleagues who'd discussed their dreams had been buried under tonnes of melting building. I lost my job and my work visa with it. We moved back to England and had a rethink. After quite a lot of soul-searching we decide to make a complete lifechange and make wine our work and life as well as our hobby. we researched the options and decided to go to New Zealand to study and train. I was one of the oldest people on my oenology course but also one of the most motivated. I learnt a whole new way to taste wine. To be able to spot faults, to recognise different styles and techniques, to perform trials and taste results and, perhaps most importantly, to consider mouthfeel and balance.

After university I was offered the unrefusable job of assistant winemaker at one of New Zealands most revered wineries, Neudorf, in the idylic Nelson region at the top of the South Island. Under the tutillage of Tim Finn and ex Palliser and Alana Estate winemaker, John Kavenagh, I had my masterclass in tasting wine to assess its potential and also to look, in infinite detail, at the effect of blending different proportions of wines that were only differnt because of the clone or the type of barrel they'd been aged in.

This winemaker's approach to winetasting is a completely different take to that of the connoisseur or most of the trade and critics. The dangers are to look only for faults and to develop the dreaded "cellar palate" of those who only taste their own wine and their neighbours. The advantages are that it gives you the ability to cut through the bullshit and also to see the future of a wine.

So where has my story taken me? I think it's a huge advantage to have come from a wine-lover background. Not tied to the limitations of an inherited estate, not guided by the fads of the trade, not blinkered by the views that New World wine is oak-chipped, sugary fruit juice or that terroir is "an excuse for bad winemaking". Those 15+ years of tasting wine purely for enjoyment and recognising that the true wine lover seeks interesting wines that also offer value for money are very important to me.

So what I look for today is wine that firstly is true to its origins (or terroir). Secondly it is lovingly made and thirdly it has a beautiful complexity that is "the combination of a hundred barely perceptible faults". I tend to think of wine as personalities or to find other analogies. Keira Knightly is not perfect in her beauty. Van Gogh was not the most precise artist. Radiohead have never won a Grammy. Leonard Cohen didn't have the perfect voice.

Congratulations to anyone who has made it to this last line. For the rest, that's why I didn't become a wine writer.

And then there's the old argument about people shifting back to big fruity obvious wines in their old age, because that's all they can taste. I'm too young to speak to that directly, perhaps Lou has some insight on this

.
I don't know whether to answer this post or just cut Rahsaan out of my will and let it go at that.
Actually I've been lucky by still having a good sense of smell and taste still intact. I started drinking CA wines back in the 60s, found Kermit Lynch in the 70s and like Hoke never lack from a desire to taste different wines. I could sum up my taste in wines with just one word balance. Actually have been involved in a retail wine store in So. CA but it was not where I made a living. Was involved directly in starting it and in spite of me it has been a success. Actually my tastes in wine would have to be seen as eclectic. I like a great many "good" wines from around the globe.

I started drinking wine while living in Germany for several years. Mosel and Rheingau Rieslings were my favorites along with some Scheurebe and Baden Rulander types. As I traveled to France and Italy, I tried red wines, gravitating toward the less tannic wines such as Valpolicella and Lambrusco, some Chianti, red Burgundies and Beajolais. When I moved back to the USA and worked in California (three years in the 80's and three years in the '90's) I never got too fond of most Cabernet Sauvignon but developed a liking for Zinfandel and some Pinot Noirs. I still avoid most Cabernet Sauvignon unless it has ten or more years to it and has mellowed enough to integrate the tannins. I still like a fruity wine but can appreciate other elements in some wines like mushrooms or gamy notes in Burgundies, flinty Chablis, depth and structure in a Chateauneuf du Pape, pencil lead and tobacco in a Bordeaux or herbal undertones in some wines. As others said, balance is a very important factor in the enjoyment of a wine. Occasionally I will fall for an "overripe" wine, but mostly I want a food-friendly wine or one that can be sipped as an aperitif and hold its own for more than a few minutes without becoming tiresome or too "in-your-face."

I've now been drinking (and, as importantly, cellaring) wine for 30 years. Having grown up in CA during the time of the "Judgment of Paris" I was heavily influenced by the developments in my back yard. I started drinking and collecting Zinfandel and Cabernet Sauvignon because big red wines appealed to my sensibilities, though from the very beginning I was impressed by a Sauvignon Blanc that I had. Five years later, while in NYC, I began to appreciate European wines, especially Chablis, Bordeaux and wines from the Rhône Valley. I began to drink more Pinot Noir and, in another five years, began to appreciate red Burgundy. The next seismic shift occurred when my wife and I read Kermit Lynch's book "Adventures on the Wine Route" which opened our eyes to some of the "lesser" wines of France such as Beaujolais and Bandol. Most recently, I've embraced the wines of the Loire, Austria, Germany and the the Piedmont.

Evaluating my own evolution, I've moved from large-scale red wines to more nuanced, elegant wines, which includes not only the lighter varieties but also more aged wine. Although I've always enjoyed the earthy, non-fruit oriented elements in wine (such as the black pepper and tarry smells in Zinfandel early on), I've become much more appreciative of acid in wine (and residual sugar in white wines). This transition in part stems from our use of wine, which for the past 20 years we've consumed only with meals. (My contention is that many who gravitate toward big, fruit-forward and oaky wines drink them as aperitifs or cocktails and not as much with food)

Mark Lipton

One of the trends I've noticed is how, as individuals become more experienced and knowledgeable in their wine drinking, they seem to gravitate more towards wines that are less fruit (and/or oak) orientated, more structured

That is sort of true with me, but I think what happened is more that I discovered I liked a broader range of styles than I used to, rather than actually losing the taste for wines with big fruit and oak. One eye-opener for me was my first taste of a really petrolly Riesling, which gave me some insight into the huge range of exciting flavours that were possible in wine. Wines that I used to like less than others I still like less - they tend to be wines made of grapes with the words Cabernet and/or Sauvignon in them - but even they sometimes hit the spot.

My trends in wine taste seems to always return to 49 degrees N latitude, 4 degrees longitude...

Thanks to wonderful sites like this, to which I am indebted, my wine journey began well over ten years ago now. I had a "name-only" fascination with champagne since I first heard the word but didn't dive into the bubbles headfirst until the late 90's. Reading several books devoted to the passion of the wine, I become more and more in love. Those books quickly confirmed my initial attraction to the name. I learned that champagne wasn't just the prettiest sounding word ever created but was a wine every bit as special, regal and romantic as the name sounded!

In short, the name whose sound I had always loved was not merely "a pretty face". There was history, romance, magic and careful quality behind this wine of wines. Most of all, insatiable pleasure and happiness was at the heart of the "king/queen of wines". It was my kind of wine. The one that seemed to best relect my aesthetic sensibilities and was the one region that never felt like "work" to get into and learn about. It was a naturally alluring wine. Maybe the most mystique-driven as well. Here was a wine that was sweet-hearted, playful, intelligent, open to everyday pleasure yet always the definition of elegance and true beauty. Her delicious gentleness guarded by her most private secrets. Revealing them only if she knows you will safekeep them in adoration and think of her whenever you recall them.

WARNING: Some "Adult Analogies" Follow (only slight)

Imagine the girl of your dreams working at, let's say, an office. Smart, kind, sexy, a sweetheart of a girl. As best that you've come to know her, you surmise she posesses a bit of a playful streak as well. She is the kind of girl you are easily becoming best friends with but there's something more there. If you are like yours truly, you may find yourself keenly attracted to her hosiery-adorned legs as she sits or walks by. She never catches this directly for you are mature enough to not blatantly gawk, yet she seems to know by nature when a man might be looking. She likes that you notice her. She REALLY likes it. Yet she is a good girl who knows right from wrong and is no fool. Much to your surprise, lust is not the only reason she feels a connection to you as she contemplates a secret whim of thought. For unbeknowst to you, she is quietly reading your heart. She knows it is a good one, at least one of decency. And she's wise to not let you in on that for the time being.

The good news is she likes you. You make her laugh and your daily efforts to write hand-written blurbs of poetic affection on the sticky notes you place upon her desk will not go unrewarded. Perhaps most miraculously, she trusts you. At least for the time being. She sees a "style" about your ways with her that other guys seem to miss. And she can't help but feel beautiful because you like to notice them in her.

Suddenly, everything within her swells with pride and free spirit. She feels her inborn sexuality is at its height and her charms flow gracefully without a thought towards self-awareness. Her intelligence is now power and yet elegance seems to wrap all of it together with a creamy velvet bow. She wants you to feel good. And she only asks that you remember she is the one providing it. This is no other, this is her. She wants to give you a glimpse of her garden. Fulfill one of your fantasies and whisper a thank you in her own special way. She may not give you all she has to offer right now, but with patience and a bit of time, the love you take may indeed be the love you make...

"Jeff...", she says discreetly, tucked behind the doorway of her office with a careful smile, knodding her head in the direction for me to follow.

Entering the room, she shuts and locks the door, turning with a suggestive stride. No more interruptions. Only a window that overlooks the bustle of Main Street admist the tops of soft fluttering oak trees decorates the backdrop of her desk.

She made sure I was in casual view as she innocently stepped out of her leather heels and began playing with her cell phone in a most nonchalant fashion. I felt as if the cork had been popped and a whole new experience was being poured. Indeed it was...

No, not the climatic experience you may be thinking but rather the promiscuous beginnings of one. She allowed me to admire her "legs and body". She took my hand and showed me what "touch" is all about - the feel of silk that guarded her legs, the sensuality of shapes, sizes and depth. How a woman can be demure and exotic all at once. Vulnerable and intelligent. Shy but self-confident, flashing highlights of all her various colors in hedonistic peaks of pleasure. Her scents lingered sweetly in the confines of her office space and were forever stamped upon my visceral memory. She allowed me to taste the source. I relished the open opportunity. It was different, delicious and left thoughts in the head that inspire all sorts of words. Words that never seem to do justice in notes. Savoring the hints of her origin, I felt blessed to be alive. Most of all she showed me what happiness, kindness and appreciation is all about, for I now knew what she meant when she assured me the best was yet to come.

For one evening, that was to be all. A passion had been born. No gaudy story to tell and no ending. Just two friends learning to become lovers, giving and giving back, and discovering how to enrich life with its pleasures...

So if my tastes seem narrowly blinded to the enchantment of champagne, somewhere in my "story" above is the reason why.

P.S. I reserve the right to keep secret the truth or non-truth to any of the above storylines

Jeff

Ben,

I've been "into wine" for close to 20 years now (scary thought), and while some of what you write rings true for me (coming to enjoy earthy, funky elements over time), the moving away from fruit does not work for me at all. I've never been a huge fan of oak (with some notable exceptions), but I have always enjoyed fruit and even sweetness when it is balanced.

From a wine journey standpoint, I started with mostly Zinfandel (huge Ravenswood fan then got into Ridge), then the German Riesling thunderbolt hit me, and I have never moved away from it. Over time I came to appreciate a broader range of wines, rather than (with the exception of the truly high octane Cali wines) discarding things I once liked in favor of new areas/wines. Now some wine regions have moved away from my taste center (e.g. recent Chateauneuf vintages), but my issue is that the circle is still expanding, rather than contracting/focusing on a different, smaller group of wines.

David, I thought I would make you feel better by revealing that I have been into wine for 57 years. I don't think my taste in anything has changed much over the years. If anything I have gone backwards from time to time. I started off enjoying jazz and classical music at about the time I learned to walk, and slummed for a few years in rock n' roll. My taste in wine does not seem to evolve.

I am not at all sure my tastes have changed all that much. Early on in my voyage with wine, I seemed to have a good idea about what I liked in wines but had little opportunity to try such wines. Now that I have more experience, I still like the same style (high acid, no oak, purity of flavors, elegance and even understatement) but have become a grumpy old man because I am less and less tolerant of what I don't appreciate! Perhaps my tastes will change some day: I can't wait to see the reaction here when I start praising blueberry milkshakes!

Good to hear about peoples' taste "journeys" (or non-journeys).

On "fruit", I wasn't suggesting that the trend I notice is for people to lose interest or appreciation of fruit character, my point was that people may tend to lose interest in/appreciation for wines that are almost exclusively about fruit ("fruit driven" or, as Hoke put it, "overtly and egregiously fruity", or as Otto's example of "blueberry milkshake" illustrated). Of course, even that would be a gross generalisation, as I originally noted.

I think the issue of fruit "sweetness" (ultra ripe fruit that smells "sweet") is a significant one. Tom suggested I should "separate fruit from sugar sweetness" - I do! Actually, I'd go further and suggest that "residual sugar sweetness" (sugar) might be seen as different to "non-fruit sweetness" (non-fermentable fruit and oak sugars, alcohol, glycerol, high pH...) which might both been seen as distinct from "fruit sweetness" (the olfactory perception of sweetness such as arises from the scent of honey/very ripe fruit/some flowers). Different trends might emerge by defining wine "sweetness" by these kind of categories. I would suggest many people drink less "fruit-sweet" wines as they progress on their journey - and that's not to say they still don't enjoy them in the right context - but that this is less true of "residual sugar sweetness". I increasingly believe context is KEY though! David C mentioned "monotone fruit" too, which brings another element to the whole fruit flavour issue.

I didn't bring up the issue of balance precisely because, as Bob noted, one person's balance is another's imbalance (at least to a degree). A move toward subtlety and elegance could also be argued, but that's tricky because then we get into definitions of what it means for a wine to be subtle/elegant, let alone differences in taste. Paul's point about "personality-laden wine" is also a significant part of the story IMO. Still, plenty of comment regarding ripe styles vs more elegant styles, and mention of overripe fruit (David C); mineral/funky/earthy rather than overtly fruity (Hoke); artisanal, structured, original, funky (Paul); hot finishes - presumably imbalanced high alcohol (Bob); not tiresome/"in-your-face" (JC), and I think the idea that the "fruit forward and oaky... style[s]... tends [to] blur any exciting new flavours which may exist and make the resulting wines taste similar" (Tim) is particularly relevant.

A broading of one's tastes in wine (as many have mentioned) seems to be part of the journey for many (and it's one of the best things about an interest in wine IMO), though there seem to be a handful of people (perhaps including in this thread) who become almost exclusively focused on a (few) particular style(s).

Lots of good points raised, thanks all for the comments and stories.

This winemaker's approach to winetasting is a completely different take to that of the connoisseur or most of the trade and critics. The dangers are to look only for faults and to develop the dreaded "cellar palate" of those who only taste their own wine and their neighbours.

Agreed. I think it's vitally important for every winemaker to also taste their wines using a more holistic approch (as opposed to a reductionist approach). I would also argue that this approach tends to go more in hand with a terroir-oriented approach to winemaking, because it focuses on what the wine is "telling you" about itself rather what you are looking for (or not looking for) in it!

I've found that my wine taste has tended to gravitate towards younger wine as I've gotten older. I still appreciate and enjoy well-matured old wines from great vintages, but I find that the occasions that are appropriate for opening such bottles are few and far between. I'm finding far more delight in less complex wines that deliver simpler pleasure when younger.

-Paul W.

P. S. - I'm not talking about your over-oaked, overly alcoholic, hedonistic fruit-bombs. I avoid those like the plague.

I started drinking wine dated back 20 years ago. My preference has been changing from mainly Bordeaux(what's available in HK tht time) to later Australian , Spain, Italy, German Riseling and NZ Sauvinon Blanc. Recent years, I tend to like wine that is not as full bodied and massive, with pretty fruit and silky palate , floral, mineral etc . therefore I chose Burgundy as my ultimate choice of wines. I do like other wines but tends to drink less of them.

The purity of fruit in young burg, has intrigued me ever since and there's no turning back.

Quality of fruit is important rather than quantity. But one gets to appreciate more the complexity of secondary aromas as one progresses. It's relatively easy to make wine with loads of fruit but it's not easy to make wine with balance of fruit and other aromas.

cheers,
Eric

Ah, here's a topic to bring me out of occasional lurking! I've not been a wine drinker for very long, maybe six years or so, so maybe it's a bit premature to say how my tastes have changed "over time". No doubt, living down the street from Ryan Maderak has sped me along on this journey much faster than I ever could have gone on my own. That said, as I settle down a bit from the past two years of learning and drinking, I find that the wines I purchase now are more likely to be "food friendly" rather than wines that demand all the attention at the table. Not that I don't enjoy the more expansive wines--we just don't have much room for them, being that we don't eat much meat and that we live on a public school teacher's salary. I realized that this was happening to me at a weekly tasting in the local liquor store. One of the wines was Lapostolle Merlot Alexandre Cuvee. Wow. That was really tasty, and it was on sale. The wine I walked out with though was a nice little Elki syrah. Not nearly so impressive, but much more meal friendly and subtle.

Ah, here's a topic to bring me out of occasional lurking! I've not been a wine drinker for very long, maybe six years or so, so maybe it's a bit premature to say how my tastes have changed "over time". No doubt, living down the street from Ryan Maderak has sped me along on this journey much faster than I ever could have gone on my own. That said, as I settle down a bit from the past two years of learning and drinking, I find that the wines I purchase now are more likely to be "food friendly" rather than wines that demand all the attention at the table. Not that I don't enjoy the more expansive wines--we just don't have much room for them, being that we don't eat much meat and that we live on a public school teacher's salary. I realized that this was happening to me at a weekly tasting in the local liquor store. One of the wines was Lapostolle Merlot Alexandre Cuvee. Wow. That was really tasty, and it was on sale. The wine I walked out with though was a nice little Elki syrah. Not nearly so impressive, but much more meal friendly and subtle.

Bill!!!!! Welcome, welcome, welcome at last! Yes, watching your journey has been a fascinating and rewarding experience, although I'm afraid I do indeed bear full responsibilty for your corruption.

In my very early years of wine-drinking, I did in fact rapidly go through the typical "sweet, fruity, white" to "dry, balanced, red" progression. Since then, while I have arrived at a position of wanting less emphasis on fruit and more emphasis on undertone, for me it has always been about balance. An interesting thing to note though is that as I look back, wines I really liked early on I still like now, the difference being that I now understand why I like them. And my preference for Old World came about very early. As did my enjoyment of mature wines, although once again, I understand a great deal more about them now, and can appreciate them even more.

So, in a very general way, I would say I did follow the arch that Ben proposes, but with qualifications that have been noted by others.