$15 Riesling TBA???

I just picked up a 375 ml. of 2005 Klaus Dillmann Pfalz RieslingTBA. No one at the store knew anything about it but for the price and being Riesling I had to give it a shot. No vineyard or village designated and with %9.5 abv. Has anyone ever heard of this producer? Even if unbalanced (flabby) it might still be good on pancakes!

[David M. Bueker]

No clue. Sorry.

I meant to post a similar question a while ago when I noticed some proper German Eisweins that came in under $25. Now I'm all for getting a bargains but given that most Eiswein I see is well north of $100 ($200?), I can't figure how it could be coming in so cheap. I've seen a few BAs like this too.

I have seen the name. I do not think he is a winemaker, he is probably more of a negociant as I recall seeing his names on (cheap) Mosel bottles.

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L

[David M. Bueker]

I meant to post a similar question a while ago when I noticed some proper German Eisweins that came in under $25. Now I'm all for getting a bargains but given that most Eiswein I see is well north of $100 ($200?), I can't figure how it could be coming in so cheap. I've seen a few BAs like this too.

Good question. This is one of those areas where you have to be VERY careful, and know a bit about the producers. Kurt Darting (Pfalz) makes some fantastic Eiswein, BA and TBA for ridiculously low prices (think $29.99 for 500 ml) from grapes such as Scheurebe, Rieslaner and Muskateller. It is very rare to find top quality RIesling Eiswein, BA or TBA for such modest prices.

I had a very enjoyable and cheap BA a few years back. Here's a link: http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6522

Good question. This is one of those areas where you have to be VERY careful, and know a bit about the producers. Kurt Darting (Pfalz) makes some fantastic Eiswein, BA and TBA for ridiculously low prices (think $29.99 for 500 ml) from grapes such as Scheurebe, Rieslaner and Muskateller. It is very rare to find top quality RIesling Eiswein, BA or TBA for such modest prices.

Ah, the "other grape" gambit. Hadn't considered that. Good hint. Hey it' Dr. Humbert von Thumperwhacker's Konkord Eiswein.

Klaus Dillmann was, and still may be, and importer based in Michigan IIRC. When I was schlepping wine, he was the importer for JJ Prum amongst other wines. I believe he "lost" the Prum label maybe 7 or 8 years ago and shortly thereafter we began stocking the Dillman label. The shop owner and Klaus had built a long relationship, so carrying his private label I always interpreted as a favor to Klaus.
I have no idea if Klaus is the winemaker, but always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he was more of a negotiant.
I don't have any recent experience with his wines, but back in the day, I found them to uninteresting/utilitarian at best.
BP

[David M. Bueker]

Ah, the "other grape" gambit. Hadn't considered that. Good hint.

Only certain grapes though. There's a lot of terrible stuff out there, and so I avoid grapes like Kerner, Bacchus, Ortega and others. They can sometimes make an interesting wine, but more often than not they are industrial level plonk. I stick with the odds.

My luck with supercheap BA/TBA is terrible. That said, at $15 I'd give a shot- it'll be sweet at least!

I tried that TBA last nite and it was indeed nothing special. Dark amber in color with lots of residual sugar but not very viscous and lacking sufficient acidity for good balance. No botrytis detected. I will not be getting another one of these.

I guess it begs the question are there any QPR BA/TBA/Eisweins out there?

I guess it begs the question

Must....resist.....

Darting's dessert wines from non-Riesling grapes, cited by David B, would get my vote as best value priced German dessert wines.

I tried that TBA last nite and it was indeed nothing special. Dark amber in color with lots of residual sugar but not very viscous and lacking sufficient acidity for good balance. No botrytis detected. I will not be getting another one of these.

As an aside, winemakers are trying to avoid botrytis when making an icewine. The concentration should result from cleanly frozen grapes. TBA/BA style stickies are where you want botrytis.

Must....resist.....

Colloquialism is a bitch ain't it?

Winger basically pegged Klaus.

Klaus is an old, old business aquaintance of mine from when I was a buyer down in Texas many years ago. At that time, he was a pretty big player in the German scene, but he was always a go-between, never a winemaker. He knew everyone and was a first class schmoozer, so he had the sources, for sure, for sure.

He also led some epic buying tours through Germany. I participated in one and it was one of the major wine trips of my career, I'll have to say.

Later, as things went, some of the major labels Klaus had championed went to guys like Terry Theise and other negociants, brokers, consolidators and dealers, and the German wine biz got so weak in my market that Klaus's business fell off sharply.

Not surprised to see his own negoce labels. And if there was going to be an inexpensive Riesling, it would have to come from the Pfalz, I suppose. Then again, I've never been a fan of BA/TBA Rieslings from the Pfalz, outside of a couple of very select producers.

Ah, the "other grape" gambit. Hadn't considered that. Good hint.

Only certain grapes though. There's a lot of terrible stuff out there, and so I avoid grapes like Kerner, Bacchus, Ortega and others. They can sometimes make an interesting wine, but more often than not they are industrial level plonk. I stick with the odds.

Yuh. The only one that ever showed me anything that I was remotely interested in was the Kerner, David.

Had a couple of those that were interesting. Kerner was kinda weird: didn't even start to get interesting until you hit the sugar concentration of an Auslese, maybe getting up to the level of a Feinste (back when those were still around), but then rarely made compelling BAs.

In Lieser, for a short while, they flirted with a secondary grape for their sweeties...but none of them came anywhere close to Riesling, so I never invested in any. My understanding was they got the message and ripped the vines out.

[David M. Bueker]

I guess it begs the question are there any QPR BA/TBA/Eisweins out there?

Putting aside my pedantic urges, I will say that there should be no expectation of QPR (if by that you mean cheap, since as I already put forward, Darting's wines are very reasonably priced for what's in the bottle) in BA/TBA/Eiswein because of what is required to produce these wines. It's akin to asking for a meal at the French Laundry for the price of Burger King.