That Little Green Stamp Atop French Wines???

I've noted over the yrs that little green stamp that are atop some btls of French wine, right on top of the capsule, w/ some vaguely familiar person's head, wearing a WWI flight helmet.
What, exactly, does that little green stamp signify? Why is not atop all French wines we buy? Who is that person? And what do all those numbers signify?
For some (unknown) reason, I've associated that stamp w/ wine that come in from the "grey market". Is that a correct association??
Anyway...just sort curious.
Tom

Tom,
I was told by a vigneron as he was affixing the green label that it denotes payment of some sort of tax. But then he may have been pulling the leg of the gullible tourist!
-Shaji

They are French tax stamps, which is why they're only on the gray market bottles. I always assumed the person is Marianne, the symbol of France. The stamps list whether the producer is recoltant or negociant and then they have two numbers. One is the department number (each French department/state has a number - e.g. Paris is 75) and I don't know what the other number signifies. Anyone?

They are French tax stamps, which is why they're only on the gray market bottles. I always assumed the person is Marianne, the symbol of France. The stamps list whether the producer is recoltant or negociant and then they have two numbers. One is the department number (each French department/state has a number - e.g. Paris is 75) and I don't know what the other number signifies. Anyone?

OK, Rahsaan....that makes sense. I sorta guessed that (just kiddin' about the WWI flying helmet). So...any wine that comes thru a property's recognized importer will not have the
green stamp affixed cause the producer doesn't need to pay French taxes on a wine that's exported.
So....any (French) wine I buy in the US w/ a green stamp atop means that I paid a tax also in France...I assume. Nothing more. Does that necessarily mean that that wine came thru the grey market??
Not necessarily, I would guess. I would guess that there may be circumstances where the authorized importer may have also sourced some of their wines that had already been (French) tax paid?
Like if they sold thru their initial allocation and their producer still had some available in France (that he'd paid the French tax on) that he sold them a second allocation.
It's all very confusing for a simple little ol' country computational physicist!!!
Tom

The French tax on wine is minimal, matter of pennies.

When I see the green tax stamp on a wine in a restaurant in the UK my suspicious mind thinks that the owner may be brought the wines in himself or bought them from the back of a van.....

(i.e. avoided the definitely not minimal UK taxes)

[David M. Bueker]

A lot of wines with the tax stamp are showing up in the USA. I buy from a shop that has its own import license, and many of the wines they bring in have the stamp. Most of these come from producers that do not have exclusive agreements with a major distributor, so at that point they are not truly gray market.

A lot of wines with the tax stamp are showing up in the USA. I buy from a shop that has its own import license, and many of the wines they bring in have the stamp. Most of these come from producers that do not have exclusive agreements with a major distributor, so at that point they are not truly gray market.

Right, David. "Grey market" wines are any wines that don't go thru a domaine's "authorized" distributor, or distributors. So a wine w/ a green stamp
is not necessarily "grey market". As I understand it, anyway.
However, one of the Bojos we had Wed had the Dressner label on the back..but also had a green stamp, I think.
Tom

[David M. Bueker]

However, one of the Bojos we had Wed had the Dressner label on the back..but also had a green stamp, I think.
Tom

Yes, many of the Dressner wines have the green stamp. Joe must be tax-friendly.

Hi guys,

This is a very complicated thing.

YES the green stamp means that someone paid the "accise" tax, which is a consumer tax of 0.025 € for a 750 ml bottle.

NO the N ir R on the stamp doesn't mean that the wine comes from a vigneron (R) or a négociant (N). It just mean that a negociant or a vigneron paid the tax.
Especialy in bordeaux you can find wines from vignerons with a N stamp only because a négociant paid that tax. The last distributor who put the wine on the market has to pay the tax. So if you find a bottle with a R stamp, it means that a vigneron sold direct to the retailer or the restaurant.

NO you don't pay that tax in the US on a bottle with the green stamp. This tax is due only if the wine in drunk in France. The customs administration pays us back as soon as we can prove that the wine has left the French ground.

If the wine is destinated to be exported, then we don't have to use the stamp. As a grower I try to figure out how many bottles of a given bottling will be exported, but if I run short of no stamp bottles (capsule neutre) I'll use stamped bottles (capsule congé) and ask for a refund when they reach their final destination.

I hope this help.

Cheers

Eric

[David M. Bueker]

Thank you for the detailed explanation Eric. Tom asked this same question on another site. Mind if I re-post your answer?

NO the N ir R on the stamp doesn't mean that the wine comes from a vigneron (R) or a négociant (N). It just mean that a negociant or a vigneron paid the tax.

Interesting, thanks for that. I remember someone complaining that a wineshop in Paris (La Derniere Goutte) wouldn't stock his wines because they had an N on the stamp and Juan (owner of La Derniere Goutte) had a policy of not buying negociant wines. The winemaker pleaded that his wines were not negociant, but Juan wanted all his capsules to say R. I always wondered why the discrepancy existed, but now it makes sense. Thanks.

Hi guys,
This a very complicated thing.
YES the green stamp means that someone paid the "accise" tax, which is a consumer tax of 0.025 € for a 750 ml bottle.
NO the N ir R on the stamp doesn't mean that the wine comes from a vigneron (R) or a négociant (N). It just mean that a negociant or a vigneron paid the tax.
Especialy in bordeaux you can find wines from vignerons with a N stamp only because the négociant paid that tax. The last distributor who put the wine on the market has to pay the tax. So if you find a bottle with a R stamp, it means that a vigneron sold direct to the retailer or the restaurant.
NO you don't pay that tax in the US on a bottle with the green stamp. This tax is due only if the wine in drunk in France. The customs administration pays us back as soon as we can prove that the wine has left the French ground.
If the wine is destinated to be exported, then we don't have to use the stamp. As a grower I try to figure out how many bottles of a given bottling will be exported, but if I run short of no stamp bottles (capsule neutre) I'll use stamped bottles (capsule congé) and ask for a refund when they reach their final destination.
I hope this help.
Cheers
Eric

Thanks for the explanation, Eric. You French guys would have it a whole lot easier if you did like the Italians do...just ignore the tax collector!!!
Tom

Thank you for the detailed explanation Eric. Tom asked this same question on another site. Mind if I re-post your answer?

No problemo

So, I've been cellaring wine since the mid 1980s and I have purchased a LOT of French wine over the years and I've never once seen this stamp. Since I buy nearly all of my wine from large wine stores around Boston does that mean that in Massachusetts there's virtually no gray market activity? Is that a tautology given MAs three-tier system?

Why would Robin want/allow any content here to be placed onto another web site?

[David M. Bueker]

So, I've been cellaring wine since the mid 1980s and I have purchased a LOT of French wine over the years and I've never once seen this stamp. Since I buy nearly all of my wine from large wine stores around Boston does that mean that in Massachusetts there's virtually no gray market activity? Is that a tautology given MAs three-tier system?

Why would Robin want/allow any content here to be placed onto another web site?

Lots and lots of green-stickered bottles at Table & Vine. Bordeaux (even the big boys), Dressner wines, Alsace, etc.

As for the re-post - it's an answer to a question that Tom posed in multiple places. Having the facts available to all is not such a bad thing. Besides, it was Eric providing the information & Eric giving me permission to re-post it.

So, I've been cellaring wine since the mid 1980s and I have purchased a LOT of French wine over the years and I've never once seen this stamp. Since I buy nearly all of my wine from large wine stores around Boston does that mean that in Massachusetts there's virtually no gray market activity? Is that a tautology given MAs three-tier system?

Why would Robin want/allow any content here to be placed onto another web site?

Again there is no direct connexion between the green stamp and grey market. In fact most of the french wines grey market comes from european countries where the wines are shipped without the stamps.

BTW, I also post on wine berserkers. Thanks to David to spare me some time if Robin doesn't mind, of course.

Lots and lots of green-stickered bottles at Table & Vine. Bordeaux (even the big boys), Dressner wines, Alsace, etc.

I once asked about tax stamps on wines imported through normal channels and Joe Dressner responded saying that some winemakers just find it not worth the effort to stamp some but not all of their wines and (given the low cost of the tax) do it with all of them.

Mark Lipton

The French tax on wine is minimal, matter of pennies.

Many thanks to Eric for his explanation. When I visit a French vigneron, there is sometimes a delay for them to "habiller" purchased bottles, i.e. placing the tax capsule and labels. Without the former, an offence is being committed.

French excise duties on wine are tiny; it is these which are concerned by the green capsule. However VAT is levied at 19.6% on purchases in France.

(I've lost track of what the VAT rate has become in the UK.When UK VAT was 16%, there was a break-even point on higher value bottles above which UK VAT+excise fell below those in France.)

Within the EU, people who import wine from another EU country in the back of a van or car are allowed quite a large amount (90 litres per person I think) tax and duty free into the importing country for "personal consumption". However I know of no way of avoiding VAT and duty in the country of purchase for such "personal" imports. If these bottles turn up in the commercial circuit of the importing country, there has a priori been tax fraud in that importing country.

As Eric says, presence of the French green tax capsule abroad may just signify that the distributor ran out of untaxed bottles.

UK VAT is currently 20%, from 4/1/2011

When introduced it was 8%, then 15%, then 17.5% then reduced to 15% for one year (to encourage recovery) returned to 17.5% and now 20%

There is no limit for importation of alcohol for personal consumption in the EU if tax paid in the country you bought it. UK Customs guidelines say if you bring in a quantity greater than 90L (10 cases containing 12 bottles) of wine then they could ask for some proof the wine was for personal consumption -- e.g. a wedding or party.

Interesting, especially Eric's info. Tonight's Texier Macon has a tax stamp, but white market (Dressner). A couple of Brun's with tax stamps. And one LLC with a C&E sticker. But some Lafon Macon I got yesterday has stamp and seems to be grey from importer.

Eric,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation. I knew that the green stamp indicated that French excise tax had been paid, but I wasn't aware of all the various circumstances that can lead to a stamped bottle arriving in the USA.

-Paul W.

Just eyballed the wines in my cabinet and the only current bottles with the green stamp are Eric's '07 Brezeme and some Brun Beaujolais - both Dressner imports.

That's all correct. I have now reverted to putting the French tax capsule on all my wine as I can;t be botherd with the extra stocktaking and I hate having to recapsule wine for the French market.

One little addition. Cooperatives count as recoltants too.

I don't quite understand Eric's comment about the N not signifying a negociant wine. Eric, are you saying that negociants buy bottled wine from recoltants in suspension of duty and then put their own capsules on it top sell in France? Why would they do that?

With today’s technology I’m sure the tax stamp does more than just indicate that a required “special tax” was paid. I’m sure with hologram and now digital stamps one can actually “track” the bottles of wine. Just one way to combat “illicit” trade (smuggling and/or counterfeiting).

Salute