Could It Be The Same Wine?

I just can't wait to taste this wine!

From Wine Enthusiast Magazine:

* 96
* $78

Williams Selyem 2008 Allen Vineyard Pinot Noir (Russian River Valley)

Country: Sonoma, California, US

A joy to drink now, and will develop over a decade or more. A dry, pure, focused wine whose intricately detailed cherry, cola and cranberry flavors are enhanced by minerally things from the earth and a near-perfect application of oak. Changes by the second in the glass, ever fascinating. - S.H. (2/1/2011) - 96



From Wine Spectator Magazine:

Pinot Noir Russian River Valley Allen Vineyard 2008

Score: 83

Release Price: $78

Country: California

Region: Sonoma


A touch of gaminess runs through this medium-weight, delicate Pinot, giving it a dry, leather edge on the finish. Drink now through 2014. Tasted twice, with consistent notes. 336 cases made. –JL


Stephen Tanzer rated the '08 Allen a 93. So I wonder, what's the story with JL? I notice the Spectator frequently gives low scores to WS wines. Is it that everyone else is deluded, or do they need to assign someone else to taste the Pinots?

[David M. Bueker]

The WE review sounds like it hints at a higher acid wine. That would generally be a no-no for Laube.

Allen Vineyard is usually one of the most aromatic Williams Selyem wines. I have been ordering one bottle of the Allen Vineyard (along with some other vineyards) for several years now and hope that I agree more with Tanzer or the "Wine Enthusiast" review.

Teh We review sounds like it hints at a higher acid wine. That would generally be a no-no for Laube.

I didn't know that about Laube. Such a distinct preference would seem to be a big negative for a professional wine reviewer wouldn't it? Probably not a reviewer I should look to for guidance as I appreciate wines that are high acid if they are otherwise balanced and interesting. I guess JL is a big fan of the "international" style.

[David M. Bueker]

The WE review sounds like it hints at a higher acid wine. That would generally be a no-no for Laube.

I didn't know that about Laube. Such a distinct preference would seem to be a big negative for a professional wine reviewer wouldn't it? Probably not a reviewer I should look to for guidance as I appreciate wines that are high acid if they are otherwise balanced and interesting. I guess JL is a big fan of the "international" style.

Distinct style preferences for a critic a negative? They all have them. You have to calibrate your palate to one who speaks to what you like.

The WE review sounds like it hints at a higher acid wine. That would generally be a no-no for Laube.

I didn't know that about Laube. Such a distinct preference would seem to be a big negative for a professional wine reviewer wouldn't it? Probably not a reviewer I should look to for guidance as I appreciate wines that are high acid if they are otherwise balanced and interesting. I guess JL is a big fan of the "international" style.

Distinct style preferences for a critic a negative? They all have them. You have to calibrate your palate to one who speaks to what you like.

David, I know & expect wine critics to have individuality. But there is objectivity involved also insofar as a wine being exceptional and well made but not one's style, am I wrong there? A strong aversion to acidic wines would seem to get in the way of that to some extent, wouldn't it? Maybe I am wrong but for an apparently excellent example of top sourced Russian River Pinot to get an 83 score when most of the rest of the world sees 93+ is curious isn't it? Can't the positive attributes of the wine be recognized while at the same time pointing out that it might not be the critics style? I just think there is more objectivity involved in wine critiquing than I see here from JL.

Maybe I am wrong but for an apparently excellent example of top sourced Russian River Pinot to get an 83 score when most of the rest of the world sees 93+ is curious isn't it?

I might be missing something but you cited one other wine review and that is supposed to represent "most of the rest of the world"?

Laube is probably useful for people who share his tastes or at least can base their preferences off of his reactions. Like any critic.

Maybe I am wrong but for an apparently excellent example of top sourced Russian River Pinot to get an 83 score when most of the rest of the world sees 93+ is curious isn't it?

I might be missing something but you cited one other wine review and that is supposed to represent "most of the rest of the world"?

Laube is probably useful for people who share his tastes or at least can base their preferences off of his reactions. Like any critic.

Well actually I cited two reviews, but let me be more thorough. The first 18 reviews that appear on cellartracker for WS Allen vineyard Pinots which give a score average out to 92.5 points, with not one below 90 and the highest being 95. If I were a bett'n man I'd say when Parker gets around to rating this wine it won't be an 83. That's a better picture of what I meant by "most of the rest of the world".

I know nothing about this wine and I've never heard of the Wine Enthusiast but I have to ask...

Does Williams Selyem advertise in the WE?

I know nothing about this wine and I've never heard of the Wine Enthusiast but I have to ask...

Does Williams Selyem advertise in the WE?

Gee, I don't know if Williams Selyem advertises in The Enthusiast. Should all reviews of wines that appear in a publication in which they advertise be discounted as biased? The Enthusiast, however, is certainly not alone in their high regard for WS wines.

In the 12/2010 Issue of "The Tasting Panel" Anthony Dias Blue says "...one of California's most noteworthy producers...I feel that the entire line-up from this superb, world class producer is worthy of mention...In my book, Williams Selyem has crossed the threshold from cult to legend"

...and from the 20 year Vertical of Allen Vineyard WS Pinot we get Steve Heimoff's assessment of the 2008 "Very young. All primary cherry-raspberry fruit and unintegrated oak. Good acidity, balanced, dry, elegant. Will be a great Allen but needs 7-8 years to begin to come around. 14.1% 95 points."

No, I'd truly say "most of the rest of the world" views this wine and winery far differently from Mr. Laube.

Tom,
I get your point, but do you truly expect all critics to have the same reaction to a given wine? David B's already given you one plausible reason (high acidity), but many others present themselves as well. More to the point, why should we care? Let's not mistake a critical rating for an objective assessment of quality, whatever that might mean. To me, this situation is no different from the ones I've experienced wherein I open up a bottle of wine for some friends and find that all but one of us love the wine and the remaining person can't stand it (too acidic, too Bretty, not enough fruit, you name it, it's happened). Opinions differ; vive la difference!

Mark Lipton

Tom,
I get your point, but do you truly expect all critics to have the same reaction to a given wine? David B's already given you one plausible reason (high acidity), but many others present themselves as well. More to the point, why should we care? Let's not mistake a critical rating for an objective assessment of quality, whatever that might mean. To me, this situation is no different from the ones I've experienced wherein I open up a bottle of wine for some friends and find that all but one of us love the wine and the remaining person can't stand it (too acidic, too Bretty, not enough fruit, you name it, it's happened). Opinions differ; vive la difference!

Mark Lipton

Your points are well taken Mark. Still, I tend to think that when it comes to a "professional wine critic" it shouldn't be overly about what he or she personally likes. Evaluating the characteristics of quality, style, age worthiness, structure, balance, terroir, and tipicity, among others, would seem to me to be the function of the professional wine critic. I would think a score should be based upon such characteristics. Having now done his or her job, the "professional wine critic" could always then mention whether or not they personally fancied the wine.
Basically I just found it interesting and noteworthy that a famous wine critic could be so very at odds with what nearly everyone else seems to think, his peers included.

I just found it interesting and noteworthy that a famous wine critic could be so very at odds with what nearly everyone else seems to think, his peers included.

From what I can tell it happens a fair amount. I've seen the Pointy Folks organize tastings around this very theme. (I.E. wines with significant point differentials between different reviewers).

I just found it interesting and noteworthy that a famous wine critic could be so very at odds with what nearly everyone else seems to think, his peers included.

From what I can tell it happens a fair amount. I've seen the Pointy Folks organize tastings around this very theme. (I.E. wines with significant point differentials between different reviewers).

That sounds like fun Rahsaan. I think I'll find some examples of significant point differentials between JL's Williams Selyem Pinot reviews and other's reviews of the same wines and plan a tasting. There can never be enough reasons to plan a wine filled get together!