What's up with German Riesling drinking windows?

I'm a bit puzzled by the varying, and at times, contradictory ideas about drinking windows for German Riesling.

The main issue is how long these wines will last, and once fully mature, drink at peak or least very well. To be sure, German Riesling is famous for the longevity of its off-dry white wines, and the internet is replete with ancedotal stories of 25-30 years Kabinetts drinking fabulously (albeit, usually from top-shelf producers and strong vintages). Yet, we all see the tasting notes for 5-7 year-old kabinetts where the taster concludes to "drink now", even from famous estates in excellent vintages like 2001, 2002, etc. So which is it?

Of course, "drinking well now" and "drink up" are very different things, but this issue isn't altogether academic as my cellar is quite full with Rieslings of all pradikats coverings the 2001-2009 vintages.

What's the board's experience aging German Riesling? Can they regularly hold-up nicely for 20 years, in particular the Kabinetts and Spatlese? Or are there rules of thumb, like one can assume that most Kabinetts won't hold much beyond 10 years even in, say, the 2001 vintage, etc.?

Personally, I have tasted numerous Kabinetts and Spatlese from 2001 that still seem vibrant (and delicious), and while they are developing, they seem in no danger of failing apart any time soon.

Thanks.

hi Patrick,
the more experience I have with wine the less I like to say about drinking windows. I have seen many wines - not just Rieslings - that seemed in terminal decline, only to come across a lovely bottle of the same years later. As a rule of thumb, I would say that Kabinetts and Spätlesen live longer, often much longer, than we tend to expect. In fact, I'm not sure that Spätlesen have a shorter life span than Auslesen.

Peter

Yet, we all see the tasting notes for 5-7 year-old kabinetts where the taster concludes to "drink now", even from famous estates in excellent vintages like 2001, 2002, etc..

Don't forget there is always the issue of preferences. People prefer to drink wine at different stages. So when someone says to 'drink now' it helps to know more about their preferences.

As far as prognostication about future development, as Peter says, that is often rather tricky.

[David M. Bueker]

Indeed the wine will always have the last word.

There's nothing more complex about aging German Riesling than there is about Bordeaux or Burgundy. There are scores of folks regularly checking in on their 2000 Bordeaux. While I might peek in for academic reasons, I will not be touching the bulk of them for at least another decade. By that time there will be people that consider the smaller wines to be well past their peak, but I will just be starting to enjoy them.

Back to the topic at hand - last week Salil and I shared a 13 year old bottle of kabinett that I had purchased on release. It was delicious now, but still had plenty of fruit and nerve to at least hold on for several more years before even beginning to seem like an "old" wine. Realize that today's kabinetts are more like yesterday's spatlese or even auslese, so longevity is even greater for wines from the new century.

Best advice is to sample widely from your cellar to get a feel for how you personally like the wines.

Yet, we all see the tasting notes for 5-7 year-old kabinetts where the taster concludes to "drink now", even from famous estates in excellent vintages like 2001, 2002, etc..

Don't forget there is always the issue of preferences. People prefer to drink wine at different stages. So when someone says to 'drink now' it helps to know more about their preferences.

As far as prognostication about future development, as Peter says, that is often rather tricky.

I think what you say is very true. I know more than one person who does not like the petrol nuances that have developed in older German wines but they are very fond of those same wines when they are younger.

[David M. Bueker]

Yet, we all see the tasting notes for 5-7 year-old kabinetts where the taster concludes to "drink now", even from famous estates in excellent vintages like 2001, 2002, etc..

Don't forget there is always the issue of preferences. People prefer to drink wine at different stages. So when someone says to 'drink now' it helps to know more about their preferences.

As far as prognostication about future development, as Peter says, that is often rather tricky.

I think what you say is very true. I know more than one person who does not like the petrol nuances that have developed in older German wines but they are very fond of those same wines when they are younger.

And in many cases the petrol goes away with further cellaring, so it gets even more interesting.

German Riesling can age damn, damn well. I've had bottles of Auslese and feinste Auslese from the 60s and early 70s that were fantastic (and some 71 Spatlesen) - considering those parallel modern Spatlese (and some times even Kabinett) in terms of ripeness/must weights, I'm not concerned about how long a lot of these wines can go.

Re. Kabinett aging - I've had a few older ones (David has opened a couple of 97 and 98 Kabinetts for me in the past, and a 1990 from St. Urbans Hof about a year ago that was delicious) and they certainly age very gracefully.

The key thing as Rahsaan said is to determine what phase you like the wines in - as Spatlese/Auslese at age 1-2, age 10 (when some of the maturing petrol-like flavours are emerging), age 20 or age 40 (when there's a completely different flavour profile, without the petrolly/smoky notes of development) can be very, very different beasts. It's certainly very helpful to have a few vintages from different periods to get a sense of what the wines offer at those points in life, and then see what you prefer.

If you're wondering how long to leave your bottles in the cellar, may not be a bad idea to look up a place like Crush or HDH, buy a mix of older stuff (e.g. some 71s, 83s, 90s, 98s) and check them out to get a sense of where your sweet spot for those wines is. (I'm unfortunate in that I seem to like Riesling in all those phases for different reasons - and really need to buy more so that I have enough to enjoy young and with age.)

Yet, we all see the tasting notes for 5-7 year-old kabinetts where the taster concludes to "drink now", even from famous estates in excellent vintages like 2001, 2002, etc..

Don't forget there is always the issue of preferences. People prefer to drink wine at different stages. So when someone says to 'drink now' it helps to know more about their preferences.

As far as prognostication about future development, as Peter says, that is often rather tricky.

I think what you say is very true. I know more than one person who does not like the petrol nuances that have developed in older German wines but they are very fond of those same wines when they are younger.

It's even tougher with J. J. Prum, Lou: you have to worry about getting to the wine sometime between the sulfur reek of youth and the foehn diesel of age.

As David said - the diesel/petrol thing is not present with longer age. Terry Theise has mentioned in his catalogues that those flavour elements are more indicative of an in-between phase between youth and full maturity.

[David M. Bueker]

As David said - the diesel/petrol thing is not present with longer age. Terry Theise has mentioned in his catalogues that those flavour elements are more indicative of an in-between phase between youth and full maturity.

Of course with Prum that means none of us is going to live long enough to enjoy the wines in the full maturity.

one point to keep in mind is that modern german wines are NOT treated with as much sulfur when they are bottled. the older wines you mention that lived to a ripe old age WERE treated with probably illegal amounts of sulfur and lived to tell the tale accordingly. the best advice is to check on things every so often so they don't go off on you.

[David M. Bueker]

one point to keep in mind is that modern german wines are NOT treated with as much sulfur when they are bottled. the older wines you mention that lived to a ripe old age WERE treated with probably illegal amounts of sulfur and lived to tell the tale accordingly. the best advice is to check on things every so often so they don't go off on you.

Not always true either then or now. Checking in is always good advice though.

well, more true more often than not - which is all anyone means anyway.

I like to drink different German Rieslings at different stages, it all depends what I am looking for at a given time. Not that I have a lot of old bottles lying around anyway, but I most of them are enjoyable young (JJ Prum is an obvious exception). There are a select few that I have decided to keep for the "long haul", which include most of my special bottles from higher pradikats, but also some others.

As far as the diesel/petrol flavors going away completely with age, there are always exceptions. I have often noticed light petrol aromas in Mosel and Saar Rieslings from the 1970s and 1980s, and do recall a 1983 Zilliken GK Auslese from a few years ago that had quite a bit of petrol. Then again, the petrol scent doesn't bother me at all. Just my 2 cents on this topic.

As far as the diesel/petrol flavors going away completely with age, there are always exceptions. I have often noticed light petrol aromas in Mosel and Saar Rieslings from the 1970s and 1980s, and do recall a 1983 Zilliken GK Auslese from a few years ago that had quite a bit of petrol. Then again, the petrol scent doesn't bother me at all. Just my 2 cents on this topic.

Some of the 83s I've had still have a lot of time ahead of them, especially the Zilliken GKAs. Had both the '83 Saarburger Rausch and Ockfener Bockstein GKAs side by side last fall - the wines were pretty impressive (didn't really notice many petrolly flavours though), but had a ton of stuffing and I would love a chance to check back into both wines in another decade or so. (Of course, older bottles will always vary...)