Any Turley fans out there?

I received a newsletter from Turley last week (I think I signed up a few years ago). Cellar Tracker shows overall good reviews for Turley but I want to get your opinions before I decide to order.

They have nine 2009 Zinfandel available, one white, one Charbono and two Petite Syrah's. Their zins are:

Dragon Vineyard, Howell Mountain ($45)
Duarte, Contra Costa County ($32)
Dusi Vineyard, Paso Robles ($42)
Grist Vineyard, Dry Creek Valley ($40)
Juvenille, California ($20)
Mead Ranch, Atlas Peak ($35)
Old Vines, California ($25)
Rattlesnake Ridge, Howell Mountain ($40)
Turley Estate, Napa Valley ($38)
Vineyard 101, Alexander Valley ($42)

Alcohol amounts not listed but I have an email into them to get that info.

Any opinions?

Thanks,

Dave

[Robin Garr]

David, this could generate an interesting discussion.

Turley wines are somewhat controversial. They tend to get glowing ratings from the usual suspects. They're big, in-your-face and high in alcohol - I'll be surprised if you don't get a response up in the 15% range. They're not particularly to my liking, with my preference for earthy, Euro-style wines, but lots of people just love them and line up for the opportunity to buy some. It would certainly be worth giving them a try for the experience, and if the big wines that win high Parker ratings are your cuppa, then you'll probably like Turley too. If not, then I'd suggest you try one or two before going big on an order.

They're big, in-your-face and high in alcohol - I'll be surprised if you don't get a response up in the 15% range.

That's quite moderate for a Turley.

I'll echo Robin's thoughts - if you have not tasted the wines before, buy a couple of bottles of their Zins first before you think about exploring the range. The style is very polarizing (I personally hate them, but know a few people who really enjoy that type of grotesquely over the top, alcoholic and volatile wine), so I wouldn't suggest buying a lot of the wines before you've had a chance to familiarize yourself.

I'm not a Turley, Rafanelli, or Martinelli fan.
They all tend to be really big, in-your-face, omigod I just signed up to be a flamethrower, kind of wines.
That said, those I have tasted have been well made and even elegant in their elephantine ways.

Give me Joseph Swan instead.

John

Last week I went to the local AWS Holiday party and when looking for a bottle to share (there was no theme or blind tastings) I found a bottle of the 2005 Turley Estate, Napa Valley in my cabinet, so I took it along. I'm not sure where it came from, but I think one of my sons gave it to me for a present. I seldom drink Zin, but I liked it - deep color, big aromatics. I should have taken notes. There were 2 other Zins there, but this was by far the best.

What Robin said. Turleys tend to make a good first impression -- I was wowed the first time I had one -- but I've found their high extract, high alcohol, eucalyptus and iodine aromas make for intolerable matches with food, and now I don't even like to drink them on their own. I speak from considerable enforced experience as a friend belongs to their mailing list.

I have only tried one Turley, a zin last summer. Sorry I don't remember which one. I was expecting the monster that a lot of people have already discussed yet while big I did not find it overwhelming or hot. I liked it. Not enough to justify the pricetag however. So I would not be a buyer.

Dave,

I have a close friend on their mailing list and I drink with him perhaps a half a dozen bottles per year. I've had some that are spectacular and some that are so hot/alcoholic that they are virtually undrinkable. I would never buy them but since they are free to me I taste them regularly. I've had more success with Old Vines and Juvenile but that might be just a random thing. That is, a more rigorous analysis might show that all have about the same probability of being spectacular or undrinkable. I spend 90% of my Zin dollars on Ridge.

I'm not a Turley, Rafanelli, or Martinelli fan.
They all tend to be really big, in-your-face, omigod I just signed up to be a flamethrower, kind of wines.
That said, those I have tasted have been well made and even elegant in their elephantine ways.

Give me Joseph Swan instead.

John

Has Rafanelli gone the way of Turley? I used to really enjoy their Zins, but haven't had one in at least 10 years. They used to be well priced but hard to obtain on the East Coast. Now they are available around here, but I have no desire to spend $40 on a Zinfandel.

The one Rafanelli I've had - at a party so I didn't take notes - was huge and a terrible thing to inflict on good food. If I'm going to spend $40 for Zin, it'll be Ridge or Swan or Yoakim Bridge.

John

Be there no question but that Helen Turley is one of California's best winemakers... her wines suited to a particular palate (as described by Robin and others). That makes her wines indeed somewhat controversial but in short hers is a style that you either adore or despise. Best is to sample a few to determine on which side of the "Turley fence" you stand.

As for me, she is one of the few winemakers with whom I am familiar who can do 15% and higher and still be fine matches to food. I have particular weaknesses for her Petite Sirah and Zinfandel releases, but lawsy, lawsy, only with heavy beef, lamb and mutton stews.

Best
Rogov

Be there no question but that Helen Turley is one of California's best winemakers... her wines suited to a particular palate (as described by Robin and others). That makes her wines indeed somewhat controversial but in short hers is a style that you either adore or despise. Best is to sample a few to determine on which side of the "Turley fence" you stand.

As for me, she is one of the few winemakers with whom I am familiar who can do 15% and higher and still be fine matches to food. I have particular weaknesses for her Petite Sirah and Zinfandel releases, but lawsy, lawsy, only with heavy beef, lamb and mutton stews.

Best
Rogov

Turley Vineyards is Larry Turly. Helen Turley (sister) had a strong influence early on with Turley Vineyards, but it's Larry that makes the wines now (and has for a while). Notwithstanding Helen's strong influence with other wineries (Martinelli, for instance).

And since everyone else is weighing in on Turley (Vineyards), I'm not very fond of them, for the reasons cited. Too much jam and too much alcohol, fatigues my palate quickly, and I can barely finish a glaa before I get bored.

On the other hand, my wife likes the stuff (although I snarkily note she doesn't drink a lot of it at any given time either!).

Hey, folks.......don't know what you'all been drinking under the Turley label, but they are not what you folks are describing...least most of the ones
I've had over the last 15 yrs or so. Followed 'em from the very start, I did/I did.
When (Larry) Turley started out, his sister, Helen Turley, was his winemaker. She (forever, it sounds like) placed her stylistic stamp on the Turley Zins. They were
big/extracted/heavily oaked/alcoholic/hot/volatile rather over the top kind of Zins. They were Parker favorites and got big scores. His reviews made their mailing
list fill up immediately. They were wines that didn't particularly appeal to me, but I liked to try them because..well...Parker said they were great.
Larry & Helen had a falling out and she left after 3-5 yrs. EhrenJordan, who worked under Helen, became the winemaker and more-or-less continued her style for a few yrs.
But, under Ehren, the style began to evolve over the yrs. The focus is on single vnyd wines, usually from old-vine vnyds. Even one from Baja Calif in Mexico (that's much
better than you'd expect from such a hot area). But the wines are no longer big/heavily oaked/over-extracted/fruit-bomb/in-your-face kind of Zinfandels.
They are much more restrained then they were under Helen...they show their terroir...the expression of each individual vnyd. You can taste thru the entire range
and see these differences...they're not "Turley-style" any more. The PasoRobles ones show that jammy style of that area. The ContraCoast and Lodi ones show that
earthy/mushroomy character you'd expect. The HowellMtn ones reflect the earthy/dusty/rustic fairly tannic/structured Zins you get off HowellMtn....Zins that need some
time in the btl to show much.
That said....they still tend to be on the alcoholic side....14.5%-16%, sometimes even above. But I find they carry their alcohol pretty well; almost never show the raisened/pruney/over-ripe
side of Zin that the alcohol levels would suggest. I seldom find them (young) to be hot/fumey/volatile in character.
That also being said....I don't think they age very well because of their alcohol levels. They're best within 2-4 yrs of release is my feeling. Much beyond that and the alcohol starts to
come to the forefront and they do start to become hot/alcoholic/fumey.
So...that's my take on the Zins. They other varietals are a whole nuther story. The PetiteSirah and the Charbono are usually in the low-14% alcohol range. They are usually pretty
big (in extract) but have the structure and backbone to age much better than the Zins. They're about all I buy (for myself) anymore. But I usually buy everything just so's I can try them.

Turley wines are somewhat controversial. They tend to get glowing ratings from the usual suspects. They're big, in-your-face and high in alcohol - I'll be surprised if you don't get a response up in the 15% range. They're not particularly to my liking, with my preference for earthy, Euro-style wines, but lots of people just love them and line up for the opportunity to buy some. It would certainly be worth giving them a try for the experience, and if the big wines that win high Parker ratings are your cuppa, then you'll probably like Turley too. If not, then I'd suggest you try one or two before going big on an order.

Of course...if you like earthy/brett-laden/barnyardy/fecal/unclean/funky/Euro-style of wines; then the Turley's probably won't appeal to you. (Sorry, Robin..couldn't resist that one!!!)

I would suggest, Dave, that you try the entire tableau, beside each other, and see what you think. You may be surprised and like some of them. Particularly the HowellMtn and the DryCreek. And for their
prices, I think the Juvenile (young vines) and the OldVine are pretty good Zins for the price. Just don't hold them very long.
So...that's my rant...and I'm stickin' to it.
Tom

Thanks for the overall feedback and thanks for the detailed information Tom! I'm always willing to give something a try so I'll pick a few and see what I think.

I haven't heard back from them regarding the alcohol levels but will post them when I hear.

Dave

Hey, folks.......don't know what you'all been drinking under the Turley label, but they are not what you folks are describing...least most of the ones I've had over the last 15 yrs or so.

Tom, did you really intend to say "15" years? If so, can you give us your timeline of Turley Zins. For example,

1995-2000 - heavy Helen Turley influence, wines didn't appeal to me.
2000-2005- ?
2005-2010 - Ehren Jordan and the Ridge approach to single vineyard wines.

As I said, I only taste a handful a year but some are clearly from the mid 2000s and have definitely seemed overly oaky, jammy and alcoholic.

Tom, did you really intend to say "15" years? If so, can you give us your timeline of Turley Zins. For example,
1995-2000 - heavy Helen Turley influence, wines didn't appeal to me.
2000-2005- ?
2005-2010 - Ehren Jordan and the Ridge approach to single vineyard wines.
As I said, I only taste a handful a year but some are clearly from the mid 2000s and have definitely seemed overly oaky, jammy and alcoholic.

Tom,
Not exactly sure of the timeline on everything w/o going back to my notes.
Turley was founded in '93 when LarryTurley sold his interest in Frog'sLeap to focus on Zin under his own label.
I think Helen was winemaker only until '95 (according to Wikipedia...font of all authoritative knowledge), then Ehren took over.
I seems it was there in the early 2000's that I noted a backing off of the oak/extraction and much more vnyd-designate
characteristics and more of an EhrenJordan style imprint. The last I've had from about '04-'05 vintages forward have not
seemed overly alcoholic or over oaked/extracted. I would say their flagship Zin from HayneVnyd, priced about $80, is the
one that displays the old-style HelenTurley character more than any.
Tom

Here are the alcohol levels for the 2009s. The average for the zins is 15.76%. The Turley Estate is the highest at 16.3% and the Duarte and Grist the lowest at 15.2%

2009 Dragon Vineyard Zinfandel 16.10%
2009 Duarte Zinfandel 15.20%
2009 Dusi Vineyard Zinfandel 16.00%
2009 Grist Vineyard Zinfnadel 15.20%
2009 Juvenile Zinfandel 15.50%
2009 Mead Ranch Zinfandel 16.10%
2009 Old Vines Zinfandel 15.50%
2009 Rattlesnake Ridge Zinfandel 16.00%
2009 Turley Estate Zinfandel 16.30%
2009 Vineyard 101 Zinfandel 15.70%
2009 Tofanelli Vineyard Charbono 13.50%
2009 Rattlesnake Ridge Petite Syrah 15.60%
2009 Turley Estate Petite Syrah 13.80%

And those numbers are plus or minus 1 or 1.5 so it could be higher!

And those numbers are plus or minus 1 or 1.5 so it could be higher!

Tom,
Those #'s change every yr, so I think they're pretty accurate. If they were all 15.5%, then I'd
question their accuracy. I don't think Turley has any reason to understate their alcohol levels.
Tom

Here are the alcohol levels for the 2009s. The average for the zins is 15.76%. The Turley Estate is the highest at 16.3% and the Duarte and Grist the lowest at 15.2%
2009 Dragon Vineyard Zinfandel 16.10%
2009 Duarte Zinfandel 15.20%
2009 Dusi Vineyard Zinfandel 16.00%
2009 Grist Vineyard Zinfnadel 15.20%
2009 Juvenile Zinfandel 15.50%
2009 Mead Ranch Zinfandel 16.10%
2009 Old Vines Zinfandel 15.50%
2009 Rattlesnake Ridge Zinfandel 16.00%
2009 Turley Estate Zinfandel 16.30%
2009 Vineyard 101 Zinfandel 15.70%
2009 Tofanelli Vineyard Charbono 13.50%
2009 Rattlesnake Ridge Petite Syrah 15.60%
2009 Turley Estate Petite Syrah 13.80%

Gasp...only 13.5% on the Charbono...who'd want to buy a wuss wine like that???
Those are pretty typical of the Zins. As I said, the Charbono and the PS's are typically lower
than the Zins. Don't know why the Rattlesnake PS is high this year.
Tom

[Robin Garr]

And those numbers are plus or minus 1 or 1.5 so it could be higher!

Tom, I believe that wiggle room only applies to wines between 11.5 and 14 percent alcohol, not for wines of higher alcohol level.

And those numbers are plus or minus 1 or 1.5 so it could be higher!

Tom, I believe that wiggle room only applies to wines between 11.5 and 14 percent alcohol, not for wines of higher alcohol level.

Nope. There are allowances on both sides. I think its 1.5 below 14% and 1% above 14% but the magic line is suppose to be the 14% point which should not be crossed. Therefore a wine labeled 14.2% could range from 14% to 15.2% or a wine labeled 12.8% could be anywhere from 11.3 to 14%. As Tom HIll notes, since these change every year they are probably close. Its not like Shafer HSS that is always 14.9% on the label so that it can range from 14% to 15.9% without having to change the label.

Nope. There are allowances on both sides. I think its 1.5 below 14% and 1% above 14% but the magic line is suppose to be the 14% point which should not be crossed. Therefore a wine labeled 14.2% could range from 14% to 15.2% or a wine labeled 12.8% could be anywhere from 11.3 to 14%. As Tom HIll notes, since these change every year they are probably close. Its not like Shafer HSS that is always 14.9% on the label so that it can range from 14% to 15.9% without having to change the label.

Yup.....if they don't change the alcohol on the label, they don't have to get the label reapproved...saving them a nice chunk of change.
Tom

I had the Turley 2009 Old Vines, California ($25) with a steak on Saturday.

Deep red color. On the nose, it was very fruity. The taste was very fruit forward (jammy) with little noticeable tannins. The listed alcohol was 15.5% and there was a definite alcohol taste throughout but not overpowering like some Zins I've had. It was lacking the spicy bite of zins. It had a very smooth finish. On the second day, the fruit taste was diminished but all of the other components (alcohol, tannins) were still there. Is this the fruity, overpowering wines that Parker favors??

The Turley was certainly different that the three-R Zins. I have two more bottles of Turley, vineyard-specific. It will be interesting to see how they compare (or what does $20 more per bottle get you??!!)

David