The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

R Cabrera

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

654

Joined

Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:14 pm

Location

NYC

WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by R Cabrera » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:03 pm

1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)
La Fonda del Sol, NYC
12/07/10


Cold. Winter. Northeast. December. Yep, perfect for some good old hefty, robust, food-friendly reds. So, 6 wine geeks gathered at a modern Spanish restaurant in midtown NYC to drink some 1990s Northern Rhones and chow on some good Spanish foods. We had good all-around service at the restaurant and the hearty dishes that accompanied our wines started with a delicious amuse amuse bouche of sliced squid and chorizo, followed by a shared plate of chef-selected sliced meats of chorizo, lomo, and jamon that I thought was just right in prepping us up for the wines and the other dishes to come. I opted for a superb appetizer of octopus a-la-plancha, braised with morcilla sausage and chickpeas. My entrée of Creekstone Duck breast with fresh quince was one very tasty dish and paired well with our wines. This was a fun dinner with a small and very enjoyable company, plus a good selection of wines.

The wines:

2004 JL Chave Hermitage Blanc
Not in line with the vintage theme, but it’s still Rhone. This was a big and thick wine. I sensed mixed reactions to the bottle. “Oaky” was a prevalent among the comments, but I also found wax notes with some honey, butterscotch, and fig. The bouquet evolved over time, from woody notes to sweet citrus and finally added confection stuff near the end of the dinner. Will keep my fingers crossed on this as this was my first of a 3-bottle purchase. B

1st Flight

1994 Thierry Allemand “Reynard” Cornas
Wonderful smell with leafy notes mixed in with confection spice. Very soft in the mouth, a fine level of acidity, cherries, silky and finesse. I wish this wine was easily available. B+
Group: 3rd Place WOTN (6-of-36 votes)

1995 Edmunds-St.-John Syrah “Durell Vineyards”
Another off theme bottle, but Jay had asked in advance to include this as a wine to compare with. This and the ensuing mystery bottle definitely added to the fun factor. High in acidity, raspberries, noticeably higher in alcohol than the others in the same flight, The ripeness and sweet fruit became greater and more evident with time in the glass. With one staunch dissenting opinion, the general thinking was that this was a worthy Cali QPR. Thanks Jay. B

1998 E Guigal Cote-Rotie Chateau d’Ampuis (mystery bottle)
Matt brought this bottle wrapped in white paper. Guesses included Spanish Rioja and California. I began to like this wine with more time in the glass. Very alluring and evolving nose with wood, dry earth, fresh meat that I just can’t stop sniffing at. Showed very ripe black fruit with well-delineated layers of sweet cherries and blueberries on the palate. Sweet but controlled balance, with a pleasant smooth mouth feel. Thanks to Matt for adding this to the mix. B+


2nd Flight

1991 Rene Rostaing Cote-Rotie “Cote Blonde”Expressive bouquet with confection spice, sulfur, wet earth and ripe fruit. Elegant with sufficient muscles and compact structure, but showed to be more feminine, smoother and delicate than the Gentaz. Quite forward with the red fruit. Some comments about being modern, relatively, but retaining old world qualities. Excellent. A-
2nd Place WOTN (12-of-36 votes)

1991 Gentaz-Dervieux Cote-Rotie Brune
Even as the bottle showed to be just slightly advanced, the bouquet easily reminded me of what a very good classic Cote-Rotie should be with earthy, some bacon fat, sulfur and fresh-baked croissant. Red fruit and a lot of acidity, it was easy to somehow discern how traditional this wine was crafted to be. I’d loved to have had the opportunity to taste this when it was slightly younger. B+/B


Flight 3

1995 Paul Jaboulet-Aine Hermitage “La Chappele”
A constantly evolving nose from wood, savory meat, to flowers, this wine showed slight harshness amidst ripe blue and black fruit. A wine needing hearty food and, imho, this will need more cellar time to really stuff to strut its stuff. B

1994 JL Chave Hermitage Rouge
Finesse and silky. The nose is what I’d always thought good classic Chave would be with dry earth, fruit, fresh meat and baking spice. This wine was regal with its all-around pleasantness and food-friendliness. Showed depth in complexity and showcased a very well balanced fruit, acidity and very slight meat and vegetal notes. Notes of cherry pie and subdued fine liquor. A stunning showing. A-/A
Groups 1st Place WOTN (15-of-36 votes)

1997 JL Chave Hermitage Rouge
The bouquet was just slightly subdued than the 1994, but differed by being slightly earthier and less fruity. Lots of acidity, leaner in texture and fruit-content than the 1994, also came across as a little more brutish, but still showed why Chave can be good regardless of generalized so-called lower expert opinion on the vintage. With time, showed more baking spice, wet leaves, and some ripe red fruit on the nose. A young wine requiring more cellar time. Lingering finish. B+

Dessert

2007 Weegmuller Haardter Mandelring Scheurebe Auslese
Jay generously provided the auslese. The wine was soft, lemony, honeyed but had that taste of Key Lime pie filling that I would easily finish off in one TV-watching session. A fine light semi-sticky wine to finish off with. B

* edited to add the name/vintage of the dessert wine
Last edited by R Cabrera on Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ramon Cabrera
no avatar
User

Salil

Rank

Franc de Pied

Posts

2703

Joined

Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:26 pm

Location

albany, ny

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Salil » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:34 pm

Really nice lineup, thanks for the notes. Sorry I couldn't join you, but sounds like you guys had a great time.
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Matt Richman » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:37 pm

1990S NORTHERN RHONE - (12/7/2010)

  • 2004 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage Blanc - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Strong, big, broad, expansive. Floral, yeasty, sweet with a long finish. Very nice, clean and elegant. Buttery, waxy, oaky with malolactic. Rich but nice.
    B/B+
  • 1991 Gentaz-Dervieux Côte-Rôtie Côte Brune - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie
    Tar, rubber, black fruit. Fair amount of acid and fine tannins. Mature, much more than the Rostaing of the same vintage.
    B/B+
  • 1991 Rene Rostaing Côte-Rôtie Côte Blonde - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Côte-Rôtie
    Black fruit with tar and a touch of sweetness. Pure, clean, smooth, lovely. Some floral notes and some acid. Very nicely balanced. In its young maturity.
    A
  • 1995 Paul Jaboulet Aîné Hermitage La Chapelle - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Some sweet fruit along with some tar and acid. Nearly entering its drinking window. A little hard and angular, lacks a bit of fullness or richness.
    B
  • 1994 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Smooth with a bit of sweetness. Well put together. Drinking really well. Clean with a bit of acid. A beautiful, complete wine.
    A/A-
  • 1997 Domaine Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage - France, Rhône, Northern Rhône, Hermitage
    Some flowers and pretty, dark fruit and high acid. Light like a Barolo. Young. Hold, this will improve. Showing much younger than the 1994.
    B/B+
Last edited by Matt Richman on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

12044

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Dale Williams » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:40 pm

Wines and food sound nice. Wish I could have come- my meeting was changed, but it was so late I didn't feel like checking to see if you could have used one more (plus I would have had to dig for the wines). Sounds like you guys had a blast!
no avatar
User

R Cabrera

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

654

Joined

Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:14 pm

Location

NYC

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by R Cabrera » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:21 am

Good to see that , directionally, Mat's notes and mine are in line .... other than the part that he went to Park Avenue Cafe (which I think had changed names over the last year or so) and I didn't.

Dale: I don't think it would have been an issue to add you in at the last minute.
Ramon Cabrera
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Matt Richman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:59 am

Park Avenue Cafe? That's weird. I've corrected that.

Dale, wish you had made it. But I think it may be too late now.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

12044

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Dale Williams » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:07 pm

Matt Richman wrote:Park Avenue Cafe? That's weird. I've corrected that.
Dale, wish you had made it. But I think it may be too late now.


No, I'm coming! :)

Whatever happened to PAC? Had a good corkage deal for a while. Then they did that weird thing where they were going to change their name with each season. Talk about how NOT to keep your restaurant in people's minds.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9798

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Rahsaan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:39 pm

Sounds like a great dinner with a lot of fun wines. Interesting to see the different views on the ESJ. Did Matt try the wine over the same different time periods that others did?
no avatar
User

Michael K

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

570

Joined

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:13 pm

Location

Wellesley, MA, USA

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Michael K » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:27 pm

Thanks for the notes!
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Matt Richman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:52 pm

Rahsaan-

I tried the ESJ repeatedly throughout the night and there was much discussion about the differing views.

I wish I liked ESJ wines. I have tried them many times. A lot of people I have a lot of respect for love their wines. They just aren't to my taste. I also don't like sauvignon blanc, mussels, olives or Six Feet Under. Everyone's tastes differ.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9798

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Rahsaan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:02 pm

Matt Richman wrote:Rahsaan-

I tried the ESJ repeatedly throughout the night and there was much discussion about the differing views.

I wish I liked ESJ wines. I have tried them many times. A lot of people I have a lot of respect for love their wines. They just aren't to my taste..


Oh, that is fair enough. I know we all have our idiosyncratic preferences. But I did find it interesting that you described the wine as 'angular, acidic, and hard' whereas others described it as 'ripe, sweet, alcoholic, more CA, etc.' So I thought it could have been a function of you tasting it before the fruit filled in, but maybe that is just a function of everyone's different baseline for what they expect syrah to be.
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Matt Richman » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:25 pm

There was actually discussion of physiological differences since I consistently reacted to the wine so differently than everyone else. I think my palate is sensitive to very high acid and this wine crossed my threshold. I really could taste little else than lemony acid.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9798

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by Rahsaan » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:15 pm

Matt Richman wrote:There was actually discussion of physiological differences since I consistently reacted to the wine so differently than everyone else. I think my palate is sensitive to very high acid and this wine crossed my threshold. I really could taste little else than lemony acid.


You and Jay must make a great pair! And me as well, if we ever meet. ESJ wines are easily the richest and most low acid red wines I own.
no avatar
User

R Cabrera

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

654

Joined

Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:14 pm

Location

NYC

Re: WTN: 1990’s No. Rhone Reds (plus a California syrah)

by R Cabrera » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Not this one Rahsaan. Just as I admitted during the tasting, It's my 2nd ESJ ever, and high acidity was there on this bottle.
Ramon Cabrera

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, Apple Bot, ClaudeBot, LACNIC160, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign