Who put the Doctor in German wine?

I have been puzzled by the references to "doctor" in relation to German wine. The only reference I found was one sentence in the Wine Bible (Karen MacNeil) indicating that people referenced the vineyards as "doctors" because of it's medicinal powers (smart people those Germans).

What's the story with "doctor" in German wine (e.g., Dr. Loosen)?

David

The story behind Bernkasteler Doctor goes like this: in the 13th century the Archbishop of Trier visited, fell ill but was cured by this wine. From then on, it became known as "the Doctor".

Today sadly no wine grower makes wines worthy of its legendary reputation! (Although a 2005 Wegeler TBA was quite good!)

Greetings from Sweden / Fredrik L

Great question.

Are those winemakers all actually doctors?

As far as winemakers with Dr. in name (as opposed to the Doctor vineyard in Bernkastel), just remember that the use of Dr. as an honorific for someone with a Ph.D is more common in German than in English (it'll be a cold day in hell when I call Lipton "Doctor")

So, if I understand correctly, it is the relatively lax criteria in Germany that bestows the "Dr." title to winemakers, rather than having many winemakers with PhD.

So, if I understand correctly, it is the relatively lax criteria in Germany that bestows the "Dr." title to winemakers, rather than having many winemakers with PhD.

No, I just meant that the use of the doctor honorific for PhD holders is much more common in Germany than in US (I think, but don't know, that holders of J.Ds can also be referred to as Doctor). I don't think criteria for Ph.D are easier (if anything , the opposite). It's just as hard to get a PhD in Chemistry at Heidelberg as Berkeley, but people would look askance if Mark started the Dr. Lipton Winery in Sonoma.

And if you have mutliple PhDs, you are entitled to use them both (for example Dr. Dr. Metzler). So if you have a PhD in Chemistry, one in Medicine, and a degree honoris causa from Humbolt University, Dr. Dr. Dr. Metzler is possible. Don't think for a minute that the Germans won't use them all!

Cheers,
Bill

Just reinforcing what Bill said.

It's stilll, even with younger people, a very important mark of respect and distinction that any achievement, professionally or academically, is proudly signalled with the "Doktor" tag. It's actually fairly "informal" just to use Doktor. Usually it's the entire title that is rendered in a more formal situation.

Don't assume the Doktor is medical.

if you have mutliple PhDs

Clearly I don't have a PhD in spelling!

I had been told that the German wines were once marketed as curatives. The "Doctor" title imbued the wine with a sense of healing ability.

Perhaps David will chime in. If he doesn't know the answer it must not be known.

Perhaps David will chime in. If he doesn't know the answer it must not be known.

Or he hasn't made it up yet.

This is the quote from the MacNeil book:

"Behind the village of Bernkastel is the Doctor vineyard, so named because, as the story goes, an archbishop was cured of a terminal illness after drinking its wine".

As far as winemakers with Dr. in name (as opposed to the Doctor vineyard in Bernkastel), just remember that the use of Dr. as an honorific for someone with a Ph.D is more common in German than in English (it'll be a cold day in hell when I call Lipton "Doctor")

Curiously, it is rather common for the students and staff at my august institution to refer to me and my colleagues as Dr. So-and-so rather than Prof. So-and-so. I've never been able to puzzle out the origins of this anomaly, though, so it remains just that.

Mark "Call Me a Doctor" Lipton

p.s. And in Germany, I am Herr Professor Doktor Lipton, so take that, you naysayer!

And then there is the story (apocryphal perhaps) of Deana Shapiro who married a guy named Maury Dean and became Deane Dean. Later when the good lady became dean of the school of education of one august academic institution she became of course Dean Deana Dean.

Or the story of one of my junior high school teachers who was to all her students: Mrs. Seltzer. And the gag.....who would marry Mrs. Seltzer? which was answered simultaneously as loudly as possible by dozens if not more students: "Mr Seltzer".

Best
Rogov

And then there is the story (apocryphal perhaps) of Deana Shapiro who married a guy named Maury Dean and became Deane Dean. Later when the good lady became dean of the school of education of one august academic institution she became of course Dean Deana Dean.

Or the story of one of my junior high school teachers who was to all her students: Mrs. Seltzer. And the gag.....who would marry Mrs. Seltzer? which was answered simultaneously as loudly as possible by dozens if not more students: "Mr Seltzer".

Best
Rogov

I heard Mrs Seltzer's husband's name was Alker.

if you have mutliple PhDs

Clearly I don't have a PhD in spelling!

But I know a physicist with multipole PhDs....

[David M. Bueker]

if you have mutliple PhDs

Clearly I don't have a PhD in spelling!

But I know a physicist with multipole PhDs....

Shocking!

Curiously, it is rather common for the students and staff at my august institution to refer to me and my colleagues as Dr. So-and-so rather than Prof. So-and-so. I've never been able to puzzle out the origins of this anomaly, though, so it remains just that.
Mark "Call Me a Doctor" Lipton
p.s. And in Germany, I am Herr Professor Doktor Lipton, so take that, you naysayer!

Again, I was concise to the point of non-clarity.
Certainly within universities in US it is the norm to refer to PhDs as "Doctor." But that does not commonly transfer to general society, as it seems to in Germany. In the US if someone says "my neighbor Dr. Lipton", most people will assume a medical degree. But if you open the Dr. Lipton winery, I promise to buy a bottle despite the silly name,

Again, I was concise to the point of non-clarity.
Certainly within universities in US it is the norm to refer to PhDs as "Doctor." But that does not commonly transfer to general society, as it seems to in Germany. In the US if someone says "my neighbor Dr. Lipton", most people will assume a medical degree. But if you open the Dr. Lipton winery, I promise to buy a bottle despite the silly name,

Although I have come upon very few non-medical PhDs (Economics, etc.) here in the US and, somehow, they have "Dr." on their business cards and ... they're not German, either.

in italy i remember being told that ANYONE with a university degree would be called Dr. - not merely one with a PhD. can't vouch for this.

Although I have come upon very few non-medical PhDs (Economics, etc.) here in the US and, somehow, they have "Dr." on their business cards and ... they're not German, either.

I always remember a management professor from college (U.S.) who said "I took me 10 minutes to get married and six years to get my PhD so call me Dr. Stone". Turns out she was a lousy professor.

Again, I was concise to the point of non-clarity.
Certainly within universities in US it is the norm to refer to PhDs as "Doctor." But that does not commonly transfer to general society, as it seems to in Germany. In the US if someone says "my neighbor Dr. Lipton", most people will assume a medical degree. But if you open the Dr. Lipton winery, I promise to buy a bottle despite the silly name,

Perhaps I needed more emoticons, Dale. I got your point (Dear Abby said years ago that only medical doctors should use their Dr. title socially, a dictum that I have taken to heart) but felt that a little friendly joshing was in order. Perhaps a bit of friendly Daling would have been more appropriate.

Mark Lipton

Indeed the title of doctor (or, if one prefers doktor or dottore) is often used as an honorific in several countries, those including especially Italy, Germany and Brazil where any person who has completed even a basic education but has gone on to hold a position of respect or power may use it. Some even use it on their calling cards.

Even in those countries, however, calling cards of those who have actually earned a medical degree, a legal degree, an EdD or a PhD will not refer to the person as "doctor" but as "James Smith, PhD" or "James Smith, Doctorate in Physics". More modest and more egotistical people do not list titles on their calling cards. In the first case that means they are not trying to impress anyone and in the second because they feel people should already know who and what they are.

As to precisely how the custom of using that title in German wineries came about, I am at a loss.

Best
Rogov

Over here I'd say "Dr" is common in any context where your research credentials are important - not just academia, but also in commercial research organisations. In my first couple of jobs, to address a PhD holder as "Mr" would have not been really disrespectful, but just wrong. Of course, first names were OK in less formal contexts, but If you used a title you needed to get it right!