As good as it gets?

I see my life as a wine lover as a journey of education, motivated by the fact that there is always more out there to discover and understand (call that the "Apollonian" aspect). Of course there is the hedonistic reward as well (the "Dionysian" aspect), but the pursuit of pleasure purely for its own end is likely, no matter how good the wine, to end in disappointment.

At the moment, I fear that my chances of ever being able to move forward at more than a snail's pace in my journey of wine discovery are being threatened. And it forces me to ask if the journey is worth continuing if this is as good as its going to get.

Now, I am not looking for advice or sympathy here, but rather want to pose the question: if you felt that you had reached the point where your life as a wine lover was being forced to stagnation, how would you move forward?

"Forced to stagnation"? Are you talking about financial circumstances, sensory limitations, or what? What is the "threat" you are facing?

I know I will never know all there is to know about wine, but that just encourages me to keep drinking and keep learning.

"Forced to stagnation"? Are you talking about financial circumstances, sensory limitations, or what? What is the "threat" you are facing?

I know I will never know all there is to know about wine, but that just encourages me to keep drinking and keep learning.

Financial, but not an actual financial limitation, but rather an imposed one, even where the means exist. But I don't want to dwell on that, because its nothing anybody here can solve.

I agree that nobody could ever learn everything under heaven there is to know about wine: there are far too many dimensions. But as they say, it's the journey, not the destination. If I ever arrived at the destination, I wouldn't know what to do - and in some sense, I fear I am being expected to accept that I am at the destination. And I'm an astronomer for goodness sake - the whole universe is my playground - and I find the idea of limits to knowledge (at least within the physical universe) somewhat depressing.

I can understand maybe coming to the point where significantly new and different taste experiences are harder to come by, and certainly while one can never know everything one could certainly know a very great deal about wine but is the knowing the point of wine? I would proffer that wine (or beer, spirits, tea, coffee, sparkling water, apple juice, etc) is only a portion of the whole to which the rest of the world is part. Sure swirling the juice around in the glass to clinically quantify all the components is stimulating, and learning & understanding about a wine's creation is enriching, but I humbly suggest sharing a bottle with a compatriot whilst solving the mysteries of the cosmos is the superior end. As far as I've been able to ascertain, understanding Life, the Universe, and Everything (with a glass of vin) is a job no near it's completion date. But maybe that's too Dionysian a view?

At the moment, I fear that my chances of ever being able to move forward at more than a snail's pace in my journey of wine discovery are being threatened. And it forces me to ask if the journey is worth continuing if this is as good as its going to get.

Now, I am not looking for advice or sympathy here, but rather want to pose the question: if you felt that you had reached the point where your life as a wine lover was being forced to stagnation, how would you move forward?

You might want to be a bit clearer if you want people to respond directly to your concerns.

If one is reaching stagnation or boredom and the excitement is not there any more, I think it is time to take a break. Whether from the particular wines that are causing that stagnation/boredom or from wine in general. I think this happens to everyone once in a while.

You can always come back later and very often you will have a fresh perspective. If not, no biggie. There is no rule that says because you liked/loved wine from years a through b that you have to keep liking/loving wine for the rest of your life. There are a lot of other things out there to explore in life.

For me personally, I haven't really gone through a period of being disillusioned with the wine journey. But, I have definitely gone through periods of disenchantment with some of my core grapes/wines. And then not drinking them for a couple of months usually sufficed to bring back my spark. (And it's not like there isn't plenty of wine choice out there anyway).

On the issue of financial limitations, perhaps you can elaborate further? I think you're a Bordeaux lover, and if your frustrated that you can't see the possibility of mastering knowledge of the First Growths in every vintage. Sure, I think many around here can relate to that. But there are so many wines/regions in the world that you can explore. So there's still plenty of great cabernet to learn about. For example in the Loire

The world of coincidences. You say "the whole universe is my playground." Within the last 12 hours I was thinking about my nephews and the next generation (my middle nephew has a six-year-old daughter and a 3 1/2-year old son.) I was wondering how much the parents, especially the mother, understands about what the children are thinking and feeling and I remember that middle nephew when he was a child saying wistfully "I wish I knew what was beyond the universe." Most children that age don't really care what is beyond the next block.

The same young boy said once that he wished he could get inside his older brother Jim's mind for a few minutes to know what Jim was thinking but then he wouldn't be Steve to know as Steve what Jim was thinking. Pretty philosophical for a youngster.

[James Roscoe]

Have you thought about therapy?

Have you thought about therapy?

It's called Disorder now

[James Roscoe]

Have you thought about therapy?

It's called Disorder now

LOL! When did that happen? Actually Ryan might enjoy the banter there. Haven't been since the change. It might give him "perspective".

Although there are all sorts of therapy, and Ryan is holding back on the general public. He was much more open about the source of his angst in chat.

$10?

Ryan,

What types of wines do you typically drink? What regions have you explored?

My own preferences are for Bordeaux and Burgundy, and with those it helps to have a cellar from which you can pull bottles that are reasonably mature. Or you can try to backfill from internet sources if shipping to your state is allowed. Proper age, and proper aeration!, of mature Burgs and Bordeaux will produce a pretty endless array of taste experiences due to producer, terroir, and vintage differences. The only problem now is the cost of the very top wines! But you can still do well sometimes if you find older vintages at auction. For Bordeaux, 1976 and 1979 can be very good wines and good values, for instance.

The following is in direct response to Rahsaan, but answers Paul as well. James, the truly depressing thing was not just the dollar figure, but the attitude, which was to the effect that I'm doing just fine with what I have so I don't need more. And that makes me worry for my long term prospects as well. So its a double-whammy: not going anywhere, possible not ever going to go anywhere.

You might want to be a bit clearer if you want people to respond directly to your concerns.

Like I said above, that part cannot be resolved here - I am merely lamenting, and throwing it out as a general discussion item.

If one is reaching stagnation or boredom and the excitement is not there any more, I think it is time to take a break. Whether from the particular wines that are causing that stagnation/boredom or from wine in general. I think this happens to everyone once in a while.

I'm not yet bored with the wines I can drink, but rather am distressed that I will be limited in exploring the wines I want to drink - there are so many appellations in several different countries that I have not tried or have little experience with and would like to learn more about, but my present constraints, which I fear will continue to be imposed even when no longer necessary, prevent me from trying even the most modest examples of a mostly modest list of appellations.

You can always come back later and very often you will have a fresh perspective. If not, no biggie. There is no rule that says because you liked/loved wine from years a through b that you have to keep liking/loving wine for the rest of your life. There are a lot of other things out there to explore in life.

Oh I have other interests. I can for example conceive of life without wine. But life without music would be torture. And my favorite operas for example, satisfy me completely no mater how many times I listen to them.

For me personally, I haven't really gone through a period of being disillusioned with the wine journey. But, I have definitely gone through periods of disenchantment with some of my core grapes/wines. And then not drinking them for a couple of months usually sufficed to bring back my spark. (And it's not like there isn't plenty of wine choice out there anyway).

I'm not disillusioned with the journey, I'm just afraid that the journey itself is be prevented. The only time I ever got bored of any particular wines/region is when I went on cheap Spanish wine kick for about a year, after which I drank almost no Spanish wine for a year and a half.

On the issue of financial limitations, perhaps you can elaborate further? I think you're a Bordeaux lover, and if your frustrated that you can't see the possibility of mastering knowledge of the First Growths in every vintage. Sure, I think many around here can relate to that. But there are so many wines/regions in the world that you can explore. So there's still plenty of great cabernet to learn about. For example in the Loire

Actually, Italy, Tuscany in particular, is my first love. And Italy has such a wealth of grapes and appellations, many of which I haven't tried but can't even though I want to. And yes, I am serious about Bordeaux, but its not 1st Growths I worry about - I've accepted that those will be a once in a great while and not by my owns means treat - I would be ecstatic if I got to the point of just being able to have 4 - 6 Cru Classe each vintage. As it is, I have to really work to taste more than a few petite chateaux in any vintage, and I have to target specific vintages just to do that.

The problem here is that I am embarrassingly restricted, and have to rely entirely on what is affordable and what happens my way. What region/appellation I get to drink is usually not a factor I have control over in a typical month. But, I am a grad student, and I have to accept some limitations. The real issue is that even though I will soon have the means to ease those limitations a bit, I fear I am not going to allowed to. What worries me is not "where I am," but rather "where I will be allowed to get to."

...I remember that middle nephew when he was a child saying wistfully "I wish I knew what was beyond the universe." Most children that age don't really care what is beyond the next block. The same young boy said once that he wished he could get inside his older brother Jim's mind for a few minutes to know what Jim was thinking but then he wouldn't be Steve to know as Steve what Jim was thinking. Pretty philosophical for a youngster.

Wow, JC; That's deep stuff. You've got a real thinker there and that's a good thing as long as he keeps doing so.

The problem here is that I am embarrassingly restricted, and have to rely entirely on what is affordable and what happens my way. What region/appellation I get to drink is usually not a factor I have control over in a typical month. But, I am a grad student, and I have to accept some limitations. The real issue is that even though I will soon have the means to ease those limitations a bit, I fear I am not going to allowed to. What worries me is not "where I am," but rather "where I will be allowed to get to."

Allowed? Who or what is not allowing you?

The problem here is that I am embarrassingly restricted, and have to rely entirely on what is affordable and what happens my way.

Who isn't and who doesn't? I don't foresee any great growths in my future (near or far).

"Allowed. Who or what is not allowing you?"

Could be self-imposed discipline or could be significant other? Or health issues but that seems less likely.

This isn't really going the direction I want it too. I'm not looking for advice on the specific issue (none of you here can solve that), but perspectives on the general question of how you would move forward if your wine journey was cut short by external factors.

Continue to read wine forums (fora) and talk to wine lovers and sample what wines you can as circum-stances permit?

This isn't really going the direction I want it too. I'm not looking for advice on the specific issue (none of you here can solve that), but perspectives on the general question of how you would move forward if your wine journey was cut short by external factors.

But it's a little hard to give an answer without knowing how the journey was cut short.
If I discovered I had medical issues that made it impossible for me to drink at all, I'd sell my wine, and look for another hobby. If on the other hand I had a medical condition tht merely constrained me from no more than a glass, I'd react differently, and spit a lot. And buy lots of half bottles!
If it was financial, again it would depend on what the situation was. While I'd miss more expensive wines, I think I could have a pretty good time exploring $15 and under wine (I'd start with the cheapo mixed cases from Astor or Chambers, or taste every Muscadet in market, or QbA Riesling). Take advantage of store tastings. But if my family was truly desperate for money, I might find spending anything at all on wine unreasonable.
I know someone who gave up wine for all intents and purposes because her spouse developed an alcohol problem. She couldn't have it in the house. Without knowledge of the specific issue, one's answer changes.

[David M. Bueker]

Well if funds were short then I would buy Beaujolais, Cotes du Rhone and basic German Riesling. There's so much to explore.

Bordeaux and German Rieslings. Drink less but drink well.

But it's a little hard to give an answer without knowing how the journey was cut short.

Per my earlier post, the issue is financial, but not an actual limitation, just an imposed one, even where the means exist.

Okay, if you really all must know, in January I will be getting a massive raise, but my wife's reaction is to not even consider the possibility of an increase in my wine allowance until she knows "exactly what the situation is at that point." There is one issue that could close my case on this yes, but she also basically said: "well I think you're doing fine, so why do you need more?" Which is an attitude I've gotten on the subject from her before, and leads me to believe I will be having this fight for a long time. Her reaction to any surplus is always "we need to use that for something productive practical." But the amount I'm asking for will have no impact on our ability to do that stuff, which I do agree needs done. Though the percentage increase I'm asking for is comparable to the percentage increase in my salary, the actually dollar amount is insignificant - in fact our budget could support it now.

To put it bluntly, I cannot currently shop even in the $10 - 15 range and be able to drink wine on a weekly basis. By rationing and strategy only, I can perhaps shop in that range once a month. I only survive because we've got a nice wine outlet store in town with extraordinary deals.

Like I said, none of you can help me with this issue. I'm just looking for some psychological comfort mechanisms. And no, even humorous mentions of divorce I not would find in good taste (no offense James).

[James Roscoe]

Ryan, the problem is that you haven't sorted out all these issues in your head. You need to go home and work that issue out first.

Money is always a problem with wine. Most of us will never be able to explore big name Bordeaux, Burgundy, Barolo, etc... That does not mean I will never taste a great Bordeaux blend, or a wonderful Pinot Noir, or an outstanding Nebbiolo. There is plenty to explore out there.

I will say that my family shares my passion and it does make life a lot easier. I am older so their aren't the same financial issues facing us. I would say that life is short. Do not live for someone else. Enjoy the ride!

if you felt that you had reached the point where your life as a wine lover was being forced to stagnation, how would you move forward?

I imagine I'd pursue something else and treasure the journey that I had with wine and the wonderful memories, experiences, friendship and connections it spawned.

I have friends who formerly had high-paying jobs that allowed them to discover and pursue a passion for the most innovative and exciting (and correspondingly expensive) cuisine at high-end restaurants. While they pursued the journey, they experienced not only the gustatory delights, but the intellectual experience of discovery and appreciating craft and artistic approaches to food. But their high-paying jobs made them miserable, so they switched over to doing something they actually enjoy and believe in--but the correspondingly enormous reduction in compensation made their previous lifestyle and accompanying exploration of high-end cuisine untenable. Sure, they could save up and perhaps over two years save up enough to dine at a place that they might dine at every other week on an expense account before--but clearly the experience would not be the same.

Sometimes journeys continue and sometimes they come to an end--sometimes due to our own choosing and sometimes forced upon us. But we can always treasure the memories of the journey while it lasted.

Though, of course, your journey may continue, just in a far different way than you have pursued it in the past. I would set aside the word 'stagnation' as that decides the outcome before you've even made a decision. The question is whether you wish to find a way to continue the journey in a different way or to decide that you prefer to just treasure the memories and pursue other paths of discovery in other areas of your life instead.

Sorry, Ryan, I missed the confirmation that it was financial in a quick read. And (no offense) it seems some of your frustration is less at the lack of ability to be able to explore more, but frustration that you feel you are being unnecessarily restrained. But at least you are actually not losing the allowance you have had, and it seems to me you've drunk some interesting wines over the last few years. You might keep an eye open to see if there are free tastings at merchants in your area. Or even if someone needs a little help for a couple of hours on the weekend (will work for wine!). In any case, congratulations on the raise, even if it doesn't help your wine budget.