What does "off-dry" mean?

Bob's disappointment at the sweetness of a Washington Riesling described by the wine merchant as "off-dry" has got me thinking.

My first observation is that “off-dry” is not a term which appears on labels.

In Europe, the best known sweetness/dryness indicators which do appear on labels (occasionally only in France) are –

French: Sec, Demi-Sec, Moelleux and Liquoreux

English rough equivalents: Dry, Medium Dry, Medium Sweet and Sweet

German: Trocken, Halbtrocken with sweeter grades being more or less understandable through the QmP system.

The German definitions have typically been better thought through than the French as far as they go because they also take account of compensating acidity. So “trocken” is defined as wine with up to 9g/l of RS against a sliding acidity scale which may not be less than 7g/l against 9g/l of RS. “Halbtrocken”is defined as 9-20g/l RS; I don’t have the information on the compensating acidity scale here.

In France for still wines, according to Wikipedia, “sec” means less than 2g/l, “demi-sec” from 2 to 30g/l, "moelleux" 30 to 50g/l, "liquoreux" >50g/l. (The scale for bubblies is different.) It is easy to see why the French descriptors are little used on labels since very few supposedly dry wines have less than 2g/l of RS; for example there are very few white Burgundies, except possibly some Chablis, which qualify for “sec” labelling by this definition.

The term “off-dry” seems to have been devised to describe the dryness/sweetness of wines at the dry end of the French “demi-sec” definition and the sweet end of the German “trocken” definition.

In my book, I would expect wines which I describe “off-dry” to have perceptible RS implying analytically between, say, 5 and 9g/l of RS though recognising that the level of acidity can play tricks on the perception. For example, I recently described a “spätlese trocken” from Dönnhoff as “off-dry”.


Beyond the level 9g/l RS against 7g/l acidity, I am perfectly happy with the terms “demi-sec”, “halbtrocken” and "medium dry" and so on.


I do believe that there is a good case for differentiating between bone dry (French "sec") and off-dry and some wine merchants’ catalogues as well as Zind-Humbrecht in Alsace do recognise this.

What do other people think?

I would think that if one uses a term that has "dry" in it, then the wine should be closer to dry than to sweet. I.e., if one calls a wine "off-dry", then it really shouldn't have much sweetness AT ALL, imho. Wouldn't it be more clear to call a wine that was slightly sweet, uh..., "slightly sweet"? But I think producers fear that buyers will avoid anything that has a "sweet" descriptor associated with it, so "off-dry" becomes more saleable, if not more accurate (in some cases anyway).

Along these lines, if the wikipedia article is correct, how clear is the term "demi-sec", if it describes a wine with anywhere from 2 to 30 grams per liter of residual sugar?? That is such a huge range that the "descriptor" has very limited value, I think.

I think one just has to become familiar with a producer's style, and/or have a knowledgable retailer that has familiarity with the particular wine (not easy to do, with changing vintages and so many wines out there!).

One other thought - it was interesting to me when I learned that the required sweetness (of the unfermented must) for German wines was not uniform for all regions. For instance, Rhine and Nahe wines must have higher levels of initial sugar to qualify for Kabinett, Spatlese, and Auslese levels (not sure about BA without looking it up). M-S-R wines have lower legal limits. A very ripe Rhine "Kabinett" could qualify for "Spatlese" labelling if it were a Mosel wine, for instance. Naturally, these are the pre-fermentation ripeness requirements, but it does translate in the finished products most of the time.

Dan Berger has been pushing for standard descriptors for American, and possibly North American, New Zealand, Australian, and South African Riesling. They are dry, medium dry, medium sweet and sweet. "Off dry" which is commonly seen in some regions such as the Finger Lakes, conforms to medium dry. But, that probably doesn't answer your question.

Clearly a case of different strokes for different folks, for the labeling laws relating to level of dryness vary enormously from country to country.

In the English language in the same country we might have dry, off-dry, semi-dry, half-dry, semi-sweet and sweet as valid legal descriptors. I know of one producer in Alsace who became so frustrated by American labeling demands that he wanted to label his wine as "Outrageously Fuckin' Sweet". His wife convinced him that this would not be a very good idea.

Best
Rogov

In the English language in the same country we might have dry, off-dry, semi-dry, half-dry, semi-sweet and sweet as valid legal descriptors. I know of one producer in Alsace who became so frustrated by American labeling demands that he wanted to label his wine as "Outrageously Fuckin' Sweet". His wife convinced him that this would not be a very good idea.

So THAT'S what Cecil DeLoach's "OFS" stood for!

Mark Lipton

One other thought - it was interesting to me when I learned that the required sweetness (of the unfermented must) for German wines was not uniform for all regions. For instance, Rhine and Nahe wines must have higher levels of initial sugar to qualify for Kabinett, Spatlese, and Auslese levels (not sure about BA without looking it up). M-S-R wines have lower legal limits. A very ripe Rhine "Kabinett" could qualify for "Spatlese" labelling if it were a Mosel wine, for instance. Naturally, these are the pre-fermentation ripeness requirements, but it does translate in the finished products most of the time.

Hi Paul,

The reason for this is that when the German QmP system was devised, it was thought that some of the cooler regions would be at a disadvantage when it came to producing higher prädikat wines with regularity. Fast forward 40 years and now each of the 13 wine growing regions in Germany (sometimes even Saale-Unstrut and Sachsen in the east) have the ability to ripen grapes to the point of declassification (labelling Spätlese or even Auslese as Kabinett simply to fill a space in the market) almost yearly through improvements in vineyard management and climate change. The preoccupation with Oechsle as an indicator of quality in Germany has proven to be a failure from both stylistic and marketing standpoints. Write your Congressman and get the 1971 Wine Law repealed!

Cheers,
Bill

Great discussion, thanks Tim for starting this thread. Did you see that Tom has just posted on his off-dry `08 Urbans Hof, whereas I found the `07 sweet!!
Needless to say, I am not losing it, LOL.

It seems my personal definition of off-dry (there's clear RS, but not what I call dessert ) is sweeter than most here, but dryer than say Cellartracker. To me, when I say off-dry, I'm placing in range of most traditonal German Kabinetts and Spatlesen, and probably towards the median in Loire demi-sec. I notice than CT generally lists Kab as dry (well, "white") and Spatlesen and Auslesen as off-dry.

I notice than CT generally lists Kab as dry (well, "white") and Spatlesen and Auslesen as off-dry.

These are aberrations .

It is clear that "off-dry" means such different things to different people that I will try to erase it from my vocabulary.

Tim, I think I can still use "off-dry" in my vocabulary. I am currently enjoying a riesling from Niagara which has just a hint of residual sugar without being "sweet". Sure, in my mind this is not dry and does not have "bracing acidity" which store clerk said this wine had!

[David M. Bueker]

I may have come up with a definition for "off-dry."

Off dry=I think it's dry, but you won't.

I may have come up with a definition for "off-dry."

Off dry=I think it's dry, but you won't.

Thanks to a contributor on another board, I have discovered that there is now an EU regulation on the use of the terms dry, medium dry, medium sweet and sweet in European wine labelling. Scroll down to Article 5.1 a, b, c & d for the definitions in this link http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 043:EN:PDF . It appears from the language that it is not mandatory to use these terms but, if they are used, then it must be in conformity with the definitions; I am not sure how far this is being respected in the wine producing member states.

Personally I think that it would be a big step forward for the consumer, if use of these terms and definitions were made mandatory on all wines produced in the EU, notwithstanding the fact that they are not perfect.

Thanks to a contributor on another board, I have discovered that there is now an EU regulation on the use of the terms dry, medium dry, medium sweet and sweet in European wine labelling. Scroll down to Article 5.1 a, b, c & d for the definitions in this link http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 043:EN:PDF . It appears from the language that it is not mandatory to use these terms but, if they are used, then it must be in conformity with the definitions; I am not sure how far this is being respected in the wine producing member states.

Personally I think that it would be a big step forward for the consumer, if use of these terms and definitions were made mandatory on all wines produced in the EU, notwithstanding the fact that they are not perfect.

Tim, did you miss my post? Didn't realize that the EU had picked it up too!

Tim, did you miss my post? Didn't realize that the EU had picked it up too!

I saw your post, Carl. The proposal there seems confined to Riesling in the countries you name at present. Are the criteria defining the descriptors the same as in the EU?

I remember a previous thread in which it came clear that the European producers were showing little interest in the Riesling initiative. The fact that the EU regulations do not make use of the descriptors mandatory is probably a reflection of producer opposition.

I wonder whether they realise that blurring the issue loses them sales; at least to me.

The EU regulations are indeed being reflected on an increasing number of labels, that throughout Europe and in countries (e.g. Israel and Lebanon) that while not part of the EU export to it and are signatories to these agreements. Also interesting that there remain parallel labels - one set for use within EU signatories and one for export to the U.S.A. and Canada.

Best
Rogov

[David M. Bueker]

There's a severe problem with the EU regulation - for wines with 18 g/l of residual sugar, the acidity requirements are set by the member state. In other words, demi-sec/halbtrocken/off-dry is still a quagmire.

There's a severe problem with the EU regulation - for wines with 18 g/l of residual sugar, the acidity requirements are set by the member state. In other words, demi-sec/halbtrocken/off-dry is still a quagmire.

It's a cop-out. But it's still much better than nothing.