Canadian Question

Our annual visit to Grand Manan, NB included our most disappointing visit to the island’s provincial liquor store in many years. We always like to bring back a selection of Canadian wine with us. This year we didn’t buy any. The assistant manager/clerk was very helpful, but didn’t have the answer to my most urgent question.

With the exception of a Mission Hills Chardonnay, and a Chardonnay and a Sauvignon Blanc from the Maritimes, every other bottle of Canadian wine had a statement on the back of the bottle that scared me. The wines included those from some of the largest and most popular Ontario brands. The statement said either “made from domestic or foreign grapes”, or “bottled from domestic or foreign wine.”

Is this a reality or is it just a statement required to be on the bottle by some mindless bureaucrat? If the latter, how does one know?

In order to have the designation VQA (Vintners Quality Alliance) Ontario wines must be grown in Ontario from an approved list of varieties. While visiting Niagara-On-The-Lake a few years ago I came home with a few bottles that were not VQA and they had the same labeling as you described. I didn't notice this until i was back home. Apparently, in a bad growing year, some wineries will add a certain amount of foreign juice to their own. In my case, it was Riesling from Germany. The wines were fine. I posted a thread about this a few years ago, but can't seem to track it down. Always look for VQA wines.

Carl, I think it was 2005 (and 2003) where the crops yields were so low that they produced wines that had less Ontario content than ever. These wines were not given VQA status I believe but did have the statement that they were cellared and bottled in Ontario.

Generally not well received by consumers that were in the know but how many were in the know I'm not sure. I don't know to what extent this is being continued even when the yields are good. BTW, 07 had the nice combo of both good yields and great vintage so if you find any Ontario VQA wines from 07 still on the shelf, those should be okay.

Mike

Just to elaborate on some of the information provided: Foreign grapes have been blended with domestic grapes in Ontario for ages, as long as I can remember. What can change is the percentage of foreign grapes allowed in these blends. Ususally 70% foreign content was allowed, but in the short crop vintages of '03 and '05 (due to winter damage), the government increased the allowed percentage in those years to 99% foreign. This was primarily as a result of the lobbying of big corporate players such as Vincor which is one of the biggest producers of these blends. It prompted Moray Taswe (a big proponent of 100% domestic wines) to purchase several barrels of Morey St Denis 1st Cru and blend it with 1% domestic Pinot and legally sell it as Canadian product....a kind of "in your face" gesture to the supporters of this foreign dominated "Canadian" wines. I can assure you that most of the grapes/wines being imported for blending is not of the quality of premier cru burgundy.

I avoid these "cellared in Canada" wines or whatever they are called now like the plague. As was noted, always look for the VQA label. This assures you that 100% of the grapes were grown in a designated viticultural area in Ontario (or BC), from apporved varieties and which meet minimum quailty standards (though this last part needs to be tightened IMO).

Norm

I had a chance to drink the Tawse Pinot Noir that you had mentioned a few years ago. It was a nice wine though I won't pay for a Burgundy in Canadian disguise!
Having said that, their top Chardonnay rivals any white Burgundy. had a blind tasting once, it compares nicely with a Chevalier Montrachet where the tawse tasted more like a great Batard.

BTW, VQA is the sure way to buy 100% Canadian grown wine indeed!

I always tell people that they need to buy a VQA wine if they want to try a Canadian wine. Otherwise they'll end up drinking something that is actually from Chile or California.

Carl,

I echo all those who said to avoid the blended "cellared" stuff. If you want true Canadian-grown wines, then VQA is the main way to go. The blended stuff is made more for business, than out of love for the art of wine and authenticity, IMO.

I always tell people that they need to buy a VQA wine if they want to try a Canadian wine. Otherwise they'll end up drinking something that is actually from Chile or California.

The problem with that is that the best wines made in Canada are generally not VQA. A VQA choice will simply ensure that you get a wine made from Canadian fruit using approved techniques. It certainly doesn't ensure that you will get a good wine. There is a ton of crap VQA wine out there.

I always tell people that they need to buy a VQA wine if they want to try a Canadian wine. Otherwise they'll end up drinking something that is actually from Chile or California.

The problem with that is that the best wines made in Canada are generally not VQA. A VQA choice will simply ensure that you get a wine made from Canadian fruit using approved techniques. It certainly doesn't ensure that you will get a good wine. There is a ton of crap VQA wine out there.

Bill, It may be true in BC that the best wines are not VQA but I cannot think of many (if any) here in Niagara that are not VQA. The best producers such as Le Clos Jordanne, Tawse, Malivoire, Henry of Pelham etc are all VQA.

But you are correct, there is a ton of crappy VQA wines, but the same can be said of almost any wine region.

Norm

hmmm i hope bill spohn will name some of the fine canadian wines that are NOT VQA. why would anyone make a canadian wine in BC or ONT andd NOT get the VQA seal? unless the best are from Newf and Lab or Alberta

hmmm i hope bill spohn will name some of the fine canadian wines that are NOT VQA. why would anyone make a canadian wine in BC or ONT andd NOT get the VQA seal? unless the best are from Newf and Lab or Alberta

Belonging to VQA has an annual tariff for the producer. As the best producers sell all of their product without being VQA, many don't see any reason to pay extra for something that is of no marketing benefit to them.

Many of the best are hard to find and some do not even make it down to Vancouver - you have to go to the winery or be a list member to buy them. Others have limited distribution down here at a few private stores. The tank farm wines from the big VQA producers like Jackson Triggs are in the BC LDB - but who cares?

The discussion of Canadian wines calls to mind an incident about eight years ago. I had been on one of my extended N. American trips and detoured through to Eastern Canada and there purchased six cases of wines that I wanted to ship back to Israel. Because I wanted to consolidate a single shipment from New York, I placed the six cases in the trunk of my rental car.

Crossing into the USA I was asked by the customs people to open the trunk. The inspector came back, asked for the value of the wines so he could charge me duties. I tried to explain that I was a wine critic and the wines were "not for drinking but for tasting and writing about. His comment: "You're kidding, right?"

To make a long story short, I did not cross into America but returned to the Canadian side, checked into a very pleasant little motel and tasted my Canadian wines not quite blind in the next day and a half. Even found a good steak house nearby for dinner.

Best
Rogov

I always tell people that they need to buy a VQA wine if they want to try a Canadian wine. Otherwise they'll end up drinking something that is actually from Chile or California.

The problem with that is that the best wines made in Canada are generally not VQA. A VQA choice will simply ensure that you get a wine made from Canadian fruit using approved techniques. It certainly doesn't ensure that you will get a good wine. There is a ton of crap VQA wine out there.

Bill, It may be true in BC that the best wines are not VQA but I cannot think of many (if any) here in Niagara that are not VQA. The best producers such as Le Clos Jordanne, Tawse, Malivoire, Henry of Pelham etc are all VQA.

But you are correct, there is a ton of crappy VQA wines, but the same can be said of almost any wine region.

Norm

I agree with Norm. I would find it very shocking if Vancouver liquor stores didn't have a good selection of excellent BC VQA wines. Last time I was in BC I was thrilled with the huge selection of local products, and most of them were VQA. I think it's definitely a misnomer to state that the majority of good BC wines are non-VQA. It seems to be quite the opposite. Any Canadian winemaker taking themselves seriously will definitely go in for VQA status.

I do agree that there are crappy VQA wines, though. They just tend to be less crappy than non-VQAs.

I agree with Norm. I would find it very shocking if Vancouver liquor stores didn't have a good selection of excellent BC VQA wines. Last time I was in BC I was thrilled with the huge selection of local products, and most of them were VQA. I think it's definitely a misnomer to state that the majority of good BC wines are non-VQA. It seems to be quite the opposite. Any Canadian winemaker taking themselves seriously will definitely go in for VQA status.

I do agree that there are crappy VQA wines, though. They just tend to be less crappy than non-VQAs.

Of course Vancouver stores DO have a great selection of VQA - we have VQA stores that have nothing but. I don't think Norm said anything about that, actually. Nor did I say that the majority of good BC wines weren't VQA. I said that that the best wines in BC were generally not VQA, and I hold to that. There are lots of decent VQA wines and lots of lousy ones. The very best wines tend to be made by small production winemakers that do not join VQA because it makes no sense for them to do so.

Many Canadian winemakers think that the whole VQA concept is a joke and a cash grab and is not reliably reflected in wine quality. And I am parroting several BC winemakers when I say that. Any winery serious about selling as much product as possible will certainly join VQA. Any winemaker serious about making small amounts of the highest quality wine probably won't because there is nothing in it for them.

Edit - I should add that the situation back East may be different - I am not plugged in to the winemaking scene there the same way I am here.

I do have some issues with unripe Bordeaux-variety reds getting the VQA seal of approval when clearly the problem is that they generally demand a longer (not hotter: longer, more stretched out) growing season than what we typically have here in Ontario. Some years, like '07 - and certainly this year - will produce examples that are better than average for our area.

All the same, I've always believed that the extent to which a grape's growing characteristics fit the climate - and this includes innate hardiness - should be the starting point for what gets grown and what ultimately gets designated approval.

I said that that the best wines in BC were generally not VQA, and I hold to that. There are lots of decent VQA wines and lots of lousy ones. The very best wines tend to be made by small production winemakers that do not join VQA because it makes no sense for them to do so.

Can you give some specific examples of these wines? I'm curious to check them out.

Can you give some specific examples of these wines? I'm curious to check them out.

Sure, although you probably won't find them in Alberta.

I'd include Poplar Grove, La Frenz, Black Hills (VQA), Blue Mountain, Kettle Valley, Nichol, Pentage, Noble Ridge (VQA), Tantalus (for riesling - this one is VQA, I believe) and there are a number of up and comers - Howling Bluff was pretty decent on first tasting. There is also a new area being developed in the Similkameen including Orofino, Crow's Nest, Herder....

My friends in the 'biz' agree that VQA simply guarantees Canadian content, not quality.

PS - looked at your web page - looks great! My compliments to your photographer - is it you?

Thanks for the specifics Bill. I've tried most of those and had though that they were mainly VQA (La Frenz and Kettle Valley, anyways), but now I'm going to have to sojourn to the wine shop and confirm that.

Glad you liked my site! The photographer is indeed me, using a cheesy old point-and-shoot if you can believe it. Works for me, anyway!

My friends in the 'biz' agree that VQA simply guarantees Canadian content, not quality.

I completely agree, Bill, but until there is a better distinction between wines made with 100% Canadian grapes and those that have a high percentage of foreign grapes, the VQA seal serves a purpose. I just wish it ensured some reasonable level of quality.

Norm

Could a quality minded producer who wanted to opt out of VQA put 'produced solely from Canadian (or estate, or whatever) grapes' on their (back) label? In the states I know producers who make Bordeaux blends but don't want to pay to call it Meritage, or who opt out of a 'wine trail' for cost or political reasons.

Joe, below is a link to the VQA Ontario site which outlines the labelling restrictions (See in particular the right hand side of the page). So I think that the answer to your question is "no".

http://vqaontario.com/FutureWineries/Overview

Crossing into the USA I was asked by the customs people to open the trunk. The inspector came back, asked for the value of the wines so he could charge me duties. I tried to explain that I was a wine critic and the wines were "not for drinking but for tasting and writing about. His comment: "You're kidding, right?"

Daniel, even a man as charming as yourself has no hope with US customs agents. They are humourless bunch to say the least. I dread crossing the border.

Norm

I dread crossing the border.Norm

How would you like to have relatives in Compabello? You would have to come into the U.S., then leave the U.S. and go through Canadian customs; the then reverse the whole process on the way back!

Carl, I am embarassed to admit I had never heard of Campobello Island until now. Thanks. Definitely will try to visit when my family and I travel out east in a few years time, if only to have that customs experience!

Norm