Cork'd post on value Burg, your thoughts

http://content.corkd.com/2010/08/03/her ... -burgundy/

Just wondering what people's opinions are on the value offerings listed here.

I don't see any wines listed? I just see discussions of cheaper villages. Sure, there are delicious wines everywhere in Burgundy, and these villages tend to be cheaper than Vosne or Chambolle. But the more important information would be specific wines/styles.

Well, those are communes, not individual wines. I love good Marsannay (Bart, Roty, Bruno Clair, Meo-Cam, etc can be good), but plenty of bad stuff too. Same applies to Fixin, St Aubin, NSG. I'd be especially wary of village level NSG if not from a top producer, can be hard and mean.

I'm with Dale and Rahsaan on this: it's not particularly useful as it doesn't list any real selections. There's plenty of good wine from those areas, plenty of bad wine too and a range of prices depending on who you buy from. Would be much more useful to have a list of good value producers in certain styles or regions.

Alex Gambal has a nice Saint Aubin 1er Cru Les Murgers des Dents de Chien that is a relative bargain. He feels that St Aubin is underrated for the quality of the wines produced there. (He also produces a nice Chardonnay from Fixin.) I agree with Bruno Clair Marsannay (a nice rose' from Pinot Noir also) and I've had a nice Roty Marsannay also (but haven't had Bart or Meo Camuzet from that commune.)

Trying to make light work of Burgundy, which can be "eye candy" to the uninitiated, is easy pickings for some wine writers. The previous posters mentioned the obvious lack of producers, but then the prices would surely escalate, eliminating the price advantage. She clearly didn't mention real potential treasure troves like Chory-les-Beaune, Les Maranges, Santenay, Hautes-Cotes-de-Beaune, and Hautes-Cotes-de-Nuits, Cote-de-Beaune-Villages, & Cote-de-Nuits-Villages. But in a short article she at least alluded to the fact that Burgundy doesn't have to be a $150 special occasion wine. And we don't want everybody telling all the secrets, lest we further escalate the already dear aspects of these lovely wines. I will cross the line and mention a very nice '07 Chorey-les-Beaune, Les Beaumonts from Marchand de Gramont that was only $17 (w/coupon), drinking nicely, with a decant. It is easy to criticize an article like this, but do we really want her going into great detail to "demystify" Burgundy to the masses? Not that it is possible in 500 words or less!

I don't see any wines listed? I just see discussions of cheaper villages. Sure, there are delicious wines everywhere in Burgundy, and these villages tend to be cheaper than Vosne or Chambolle. But the more important information would be specific wines/styles.

The most important information would be the producers.

I've had Alex Gambal's Saint Aubin 1er Cru Les Murgers des Dents de Chien in past vintages and it's been a gem.

One recent revelation for me was Domaine Francois Lumpp. His white Burgundies from Givry are good QPR, especially as Burgundy goes.

-Paul W.

The most important information would be the producers.

Sort of. Producers and styles really need to be explained together. It's not just about getting quality wine. It's about quality wine that suits your particular needs/palate.

One recent revelation for me was Domaine Francois Lumpp. His white Burgundies from Givry are good QPR, especially as Burgundy goes.

-Paul W.

I agree on Francois Lumpp. I bought many of his reds from the '02 vintage and they are drinking very very well. Well made, clean, and focused for a burg. I'd love to see what he could do with better fruit.

Richard, thanks for bringing up Santenay. That has been a fertile hunting ground for me. I did have several bottles of a delicious Cote-de-Nuits-Villages, but that was Jayer-Gilles and I haven't been able to find it in more recent vintages.

I obviously overlooked the "greatest Burgundy value of all" in decent Bourgogne. Here the real challenge lies! Lurking among the myriad choices of this most common "Burgundy" (52% of production) are some of the best values to be had. When you are starting at the bottom there is no where to go but up, and some of these will quite often drink like village wines, and even modest 1st Crus. Two come to mind, the '05 Ambroise Bourgogne(Robert Kacher) and one that I just opened tonight, '08 Arlaud Roncevie($19 from North Berkley Imports). The Ambroise obviously shows more mature fruit and round flavors, but the Arlaud promises nice things to come. It is pleasant now with opulent aromas and perky acidity, though it should improve noticeably. Strong showing for such a young wine. They just anointed a new AOC (Bourgogne Cote d'Or if my memory serves me) that will designate fruit from Burgundy's Cote d'Or that should help demystify Bourgogne. It used to be that fruit from anywhere in Burgundy could be labeled "Bourgogne". So now we will have a better hand on the origin (and probably a more expensive wine). The beat goes on, but it sure is fun to listen to!

I have found both Santenay, and even more so, Savigny-Les-Beaune, to be fertile hunting grounds for value in Burgundy.

Long live pinot noir as it was meant to be.

-Paul W.

If we're talking regions, I'll also throw out a mention for Pernand-Vergelesses. Both Rollin and Jadot make some really good value stuff from there.

Thanks for the good info. I of course overlooked the whole Burgundian thing wherein it seems every grape cluster can have a different owner and therefore variation is wide even within the smaller appellations/communes/villages/whathaveyou that the referenced link mentioned, so thanks for reminding me of the importance of producer.

I will say that while the Cork'd site's updates always pique my interest they are frequently light on detail, sometimes surprisingly so.

I of course overlooked the whole Burgundian thing wherein it seems every grape cluster can have a different owner and therefore variation is wide even within the smaller appellations/communes/villages/

It seems to me that the overall quality has improved considerably over the last 4-5 years. They seem to know what a resource they have and the young people are getting involved and really ramping-up to meet expectations. I am somewhat new to Burgundy, having been intensely studying over the last 3-4 years, but the quality level, even at the Bourgogne and Village level seem to produce very nice characteristic wines that make you want to delve further into the 1st Crus, and maybe even a Grand Cru, if someone else is buying! You do need to wait on these wines, but not as much as Bordeaux, and a decant is usually in order (2-3 hours) if you want the most out of your wine. But these are the little nuances that make Burgundy so esoteric.

Another real eye-opener for me the last time I visited Burgundy was the high quality of Cremant de Bourgnone from Savigny-les-Beaune. This is a sparkling wine made using the same method as in Champagne, and the same grape varieties. It ain't Krug--no way, no how--but it'll match your run-of-the-mill NV Champagne Brut from the big houses, and at half the price. And it'll run circles around any of the sparklers from California. It's a shame that nobody in the USA seems to want to import it. The QPR is astounding.

-Paul W.

They will start, if supply is adequate. I have noticed that more and more wines from coops are coming into the US, and rightfully so. When in France, you will constantly be impressed with the local coops. An they produce enormous quantities of well priced wine. In most coops I've visited they will open any bottle in the store for you to taste, and they have ample supply. Cremant de (insert region) are not big production wines, except maybe in the Loire, but you will see more and more of them as they become familiar to domestic markets. I will take exception to you disparagement of the Cali sparklers. These can be nice value wines. Piper-Sonoma and Mumm-Napa come to mind, not to mention the high end DMV and "etoile", that both rival Champagne (though at a comparable price). Don't overlook the eclectic Gruet from New Mexico, a fun sparkler with a story. You are right, most Cremant sell for about half what Champagne cost, and is at least 80%. But if you need the real deal, that would be Champagne! Decisions, decisions!!