What do you do when you encounter a fake?

Just keep quiet and let it pass... or mention it quietly to the person with the bottle?

What if it's at someone's home, and the host is the one opening a bottle that (at least to you) is a fake?

Out of curiosity, what is the wine?

All your other questions are beyond the realm of winegeekdom and fall into the general category of manners. As such, much depends on the circumstance, how well you know this person, the type of setting, etc.

Lucky (unlucky?) for me, my friends and acquaintances and I rarely open together bottles of 82 Petrus, Jefferson bottles, or other such wine deemed appropriate by counterfeiters to fake. However, on the chance that it happened, and I was sure about it (and it would have to be a poor substitute of a wine for me to be positive about it being a fake) I would tactfully mention it to the owner of the bottle. Letting the scam perpetuate doesn´t do anyone any good.

Cheers,
Bill

If one has some expertise or more than the usual knowledge in such matters, I think it behooves us to discretely mention the possibility to the host. It should go without saying, however, that one should back up the suggestion with some factual knowledge. Indeed, discretion is the heart of the matter in such cases.

Best
Rogov

I'm with Rahsaan- while this has never happened to me, I can't predict response, because it depends on relationship to host, how "geeky" the situation is (I'd be certain to publicly question a fake at a formal vertical, far less so at a dinner where the host brought out his best bottle for non-geek friends), how sure I was, etc.

I have a few friends who own many bottles of the level that get most attention from counterfeiters, but they are really geeky and are more likely to be suspicious that I am, so I doubt it would ever come up for me.

But it's not only 1947 Cheval that can be faked. My guess is that as more and more expensive wine is sold in emerging markets, there is more and more counterfeiting of mid-level wines, and that some will eventually make it to Western markets. Which of these seems easier/more profitable:
1) come up with a fake 1959 Mouton, fool auction house, pocket $2K
2) buy 400 cases of cheap Bordeaux at $8/bottle, print 5000 labels that say 2005 Leoville Poyferre, sell 8 pallets at $700/cs in Far East, pocket about $200K.

There have long been stories of Mouton Cadet being counterfeited with cheap Chinese wine, then sold in markets where no one has familarity with the real product. This just appeared in NYTimes:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2 ... eit&st=cse

cheers

I've also read of sweet cheap wine being sold in China with labels of Niagara Peninsula Ice Wine.

There have long been stories of Mouton Cadet being counterfeited with cheap Chinese wine, then sold in markets where no one has familarity with the real product.

As no one that WAS familiar with this product WOULD buy it, they could have used the 'real stuff' to sell. I used to find this a reliable bottle for a modest price, but the tastes I have given it in recent years indicates that it is neither - quality has dropped it would seem, or maybe I was just unlucky enough to hit a bad vintage of the red?

Oh.. this is about wine...

[James Roscoe]

Oh.. this is about wine...

Is it a problem otherwise?

Bizarrely, a few bottles of cheap German wine have recently been reported in the UK with fake Jadot Puilly Fuisée labels. You would not think it was worthwhile bothering! I would guess the labels were downloaded from the Kobrand website as they were for the US market.

Bizarrely, a few bottles of cheap German wine have recently been reported in the UK with fake Jadot Puilly Fuisée labels. You would not think it was worthwhile bothering! I would guess the labels were downloaded from the Kobrand website as they were for the US market.

Not such a surprise.. big money to be made.... http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/09/counterfeit-wine-below-the-radar-the-case-of-tesco/

Bizarrely, a few bottles of cheap German wine have recently been reported in the UK with fake Jadot Puilly Fuisée labels. You would not think it was worthwhile bothering! I would guess the labels were downloaded from the Kobrand website as they were for the US market.

Not such a surprise.. big money to be made.... http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/09/counterfeit-wine-below-the-radar-the-case-of-tesco/

I'm not so sure. You need to consider the cost of the fraud in terms of label production, replacing the labels, the cost of the actual wine, and getting the wine into the distribution chain. If you skimp on the labels and the wine (as it seems these guys did) you are going to get rumbled too soon, and quite possibly arrested.

As no one that WAS familiar with this product WOULD buy it, they could have used the 'real stuff' to sell. I used to find this a reliable bottle for a modest price, but the tastes I have given it in recent years indicates that it is neither - quality has dropped it would seem, or maybe I was just unlucky enough to hit a bad vintage of the red?

Hi Bill,

I would give the Mouton Cadet red another try. I believe that the quality of the wine is markedly improved. The '07 is some excellent juice for the price.

OK, Sam, thanks for the update. After a bad experience or three I tend to stay away, so given your report I will give it another try.

In regard to the thread, I would add that it would be the rare person that had the experience linked with the self confidence to taste a wine and declare it a fake. Unless the substitute was egregiously bad or so different from what it should be that no one could ignore it, people would tend to write off a bad tasting experience as a bad bottle, or as their unfamiliarity with the wine.

I think the Ice Wine in China is hilarious. Our market for ice wine consists mostly of oriental tourists who wouldn't know a real ice wine if it bit them. They are just trophy wines to show the folks back home. 98% of the Chinese wine buyers that aren't in the real aficionado category care only for the label. Many, many bottles of top rank Bordeaux are drunk in social situations where the whole point is showing that you can afford the fancy labels, not that you know, or enjoy the wine. I dare say you could replace Mouton with Mouton Cadet and as long as the label was original, those customers would be pretty happy (I see them buying mostly Mouton, Lafite and Latour).