The wine was how much?

Liz and I took another couple out to dinner on Friday. Fantastic food, great wines and outstanding service! All four of us had the 6 course dinner but only three opted for the wine parings, which were @ $50. Liz just wanted a glass of PN, not only to have less wine but to save a few bucks, too. The sommelier, who we know and trust, suggested a half bottle and Liz thought that was a good idea since she could take it home if not finished. It was not a label I was familiar with.

When the bill arrived, that half bottle was $68, even more that the cost of the parings. Now, I know I should have asked the price before ordering and I did not. But my question is this - was there any obligation on the part of the sommelier to tactfully let us know that the half bottle was not cheap?
(Maybe a good question for Dave McIntire.)

Not sure I can answer this question without knowing what the wine list looks like. $68 for a half is probably $125-$130 for a 750. At 2X thats $60-$65 retail. At 3X thats $40-$45 retail. If the list is a 3X list, than I don't think it would be considered expensive and probably no reason to expect a warning. Gets to be a harder question at 2x. Also need to consider how much is already being spent on dinner and if this bottle would appear out of line to the Somm. Assuming the dinner is at least as expensive as the pairing, you already have a bill of $350 so the $68 may not seem to the Somm to be an issue.

I will say that my wife and I dine at a local place a few times a year and they know us there. When they tell us the specials they never give us a price and if they suggest a wine they never mention the price of that either. If I am concerned I ask, but normally I don't so I may not be the best one to answer this question.

Thanks for your thoughts, Brian. Dinner was about $100 per person. The wine list is extensive with all price ranges represented. BTW - The wine was Panther PN, if I recall.

Panther Creek? Shows 3 different halfs on their web site. Prices range from normal markup to you got screwed.

http://panthercreekcellars.com/product/store/category/19

Unless you had already raised the issue of price, it seems to me that the sommelier would have risked offending you by suggesting that you were cheap if he mentioned the extra cost. I'm not a sommelier and have never been a waitperson, so I don't know any formal or informal codes on this one. But from my experiences as a diner it seems that the sommelier behaved correctly and professionally and if you were concerned about the cost you needed to speak up. Nothing wrong with that!

Of course, I can imagine that you did not want to seem cheap/overly-price conscious while treating your friends. So you might have tried another subterfuge tactic, such as asking the sommelier to show you the recommended half bottle on the menu so you could peruse the other options (and simultaneously glance at the price) or whatever...

[Robin Garr]

If the list is a 3X list

This may be a regional variation, but in these parts, 3X list ranks close to highway robbery, and it's pretty much restricted to high-end chains like Ruth's Chris. If I'm forced into an establishment with that wine pricing policy, I'll drink beer or iced tea, thanks.

I'll drink beer or iced tea, thanks.

Me, too, next time.

Seems overpriced to me Jon, unless it was for a notable Burgundy 1er Cru (and this wasn't.)

[James Roscoe]

In DC and the surrounding suburbs 3X retail is the going tariff at most restaurants. It's ridiculous! There are places that are serious about wine where it is lower, but it's pretty much call for the crisis center around these parts.

I would have been pissed. I think a bottle that would have cost more than the per-person cost of the whole dinner (if 750m) should be mentioned, and there's a very easy way of doing it without offending anyone: bring the list over and point to it.

This is the kind of thing that puts people off sommeliers.

I agree with Oliver.

The job of a sommelier is much, much more than simply suggesting a wine that might go well with a particular dish or satisfy a particular person's desire to drink something.

The primary reason for the sommelier to be there at all is to assist with facilitating the excellence of the meal in regards to the wine component---to demystify, to give suggestions for pairings, to nudge into the best possible food and wine combinations---for the guest---and to insure that the guests had the best possible time and went away with the best possible memories of the entire restaurant experience.

If you had a great meal, then suffered severe gastric distress from the food, you wouldn't go back. If your distress was brought on by the sommelier, then shame on him for spoiling what otherwise seemed a wonderful experience. The sommelier DID NOT DO HIS JOB. That it is a difficult job that demands finesse and sensitivity and perception is not germane: he simply did not do his job. The wine may have been good, but it turned to vinegar in your mind when you read that bill. Bad for the restaurant; they lost repeat business.

But that's one of my all time pet peeves against restaurants, and speaks to directly to the restaurant wine pricing (gouging) strategy: it's short term thinking, and based on treating the customer shabbily (and treating them as though they are stupid). Get your money! Gouge! Don't build repeat business. Don't establish your place as a friend to your customer! Get the money out of their pockets as quickly as you can and assume they won't ever come back. Part of the reason so many restaurants fail. Short term thinking.

I wish more restaurants would follow the new pattern at Nana's (Scott Howell's restaurant in Durham, NC) with a cruvinet to preserve wines by the glass. Often a couple may order different entrees, one pairing better with a white wine, and one pairing better with a red wine. Also, the appetizer or salad may call for a Sauvignon Blanc, while the entree calls for a hearty red wine. The cruvinet (and a well selected wine list) facilitates ordering glasses of wine to match the dishes and then maybe a Port or dessert wine after dinner. I hope the restaurant wasn't Nora's in DC. The maitre d' remembered from a previous visit that I like red Burgundies, so when I was dining alone there he came up with a half bottle of a red Burgundy and gave me a special price (the wine wasn't listed on the wine list.) It made my dinner. As Hoke says, the Sommelier experience can enhance or ruin the memory of the dining experience.

[Robin Garr]

I wish more restaurants would follow the new pattern at Nana's (Scott Howell's restaurant in Durham, NC) with a cruvinet to preserve wines by the glass. Often a couple may order different entrees, one pairing better with a white wine, and one pairing better with a red wine. Also, the appetizer or salad may call for a Sauvignon Blanc, while the entree calls for a hearty red wine. The cruvinet (and a well selected wine list) facilitates ordering glasses of wine to match the dishes and then maybe a Port or dessert wine after dinner.

L&N Wine Bar & Bistro in Louisville, the venue for more than a few offlines, has this informed practice, with a 54-unit Cruvinet - you can buy by the bottle, the 5-ounce glass or the 2-ounce taste, and put together quite an interesting combination of tastings with dinner. One of my favorite places.

Exactly. One time at Nana's I had three-ounce pours of an Albarino and an Arneis. Maybe I can work my way through the alphabet of wines.

[Jenise]

I agree with Oliver.

Me three. The issue wasn't that your wife didn't like any wine except pinot noir and that was probably obvious--as well, you said this sommelier knows you.

John, why not go ahead and list the name of this place? it gives a heads up to visitors from the board as to what place to avoid. Then, you could send the thread to the restaurant as well.