Tasting Terms

So I'm doing a bit of reading on tea and coffee and tasting same, and in one source I came across an interesting tasting parameter.

Coffee tasters use a lot of the same terminology as wine tasters do - they look at things like body, complexity, balance and acidity. Some, at least also use a parameter that is called 'range'. This refers to something I rather like - view the mouthful of coffee as a musical chord and then note where the main interest and complexity of the sensation is centred - would you call it a high or low focus, a treble or bass?

So a Kenya coffee might be focussed in terms of flavour up in the treble range, and an analogy might be a pinot noir. A Sumatran will be based more in the basso profundo, as might a big cabernet.

Probably not terribly useful, and certainly not a necessary addition to the wine tasting lexicon, but I thought it rather charming to think of taste in a musical context given that I am also a big music fan.

Passed on here in case it also amuses someone else. Come up with your own sonic comparisons.

If any of you are old time audiophiles, there was a 45 RPM audiophile LP called 'Dafos' which is a remarkable percussion piece - see http://www.amazon.com/D%C3%A4fos-Mickey-Hart/dp/B000008GEY Other thann the Sheffeild Drum Record, it was at the top of the drum LPs as a test of the bass reproduction of your system.

Mickey Hart, the percussionist from the Grateful Dead had some sort of giant percussion assembly hung from cable so he could sit in it and hit whatever hanging bell, drum etc. pleased him. At one point in the recording, the cable let go and the whole thing came crashing down, testing your speakers a l'outrance (if you will pardon a bit of combat terminology).

This would have to be the equivalent oenologically of a 100% Tannat based Madiran, or perhaps a big Cahors or an old time Californian Petit Sirah (the kind you couldn't see through for 15 years).

I'm not a fan of flavored coffees, but a while ago I posted this: http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31668. I found that by adding just a pinch (about a dozen seeds) of fennel seeds to my grinder of French roast beans enhances the mouthfeel of a pot of espresso without really changing the flavor. I previously roasted the green beans, which were from Flores Island (where the Human Hobbit was discovered a few years ago) in my hot air corn popper.

That's interesting, Howie.

I loathe coffee flavoured with vanilla, chocolate etc., but I do keep a small supply of both cinnamom and cardamom by the coffee 'factory' (drip maker, grinder - recently converted to an adjustable ball grinder froma blade - and espersso machine). A small dash of either adds a je ne sais quoi to the coffee that is quite nice if you are in the mood.

I'd be a little leery of running anything aromatic through my grinder. SWMBO once made the mistake of running some flavoured coffee beans that some misdirected friend had give her through, and every pot for a week stank of whatever adulterant they'd used in that batch - I think it was maple, like I want my coffee to smell like a stack of pancakes?? I intend to try your additive, though - I'll just get out the mortar and pestle (miniature size) and grind it up. Thanks for the suggestion!

We have the "range" idea a little in wine tasting terminology, e.g. high-toned, and undertones.

I have a cousin who owns a coffee trading house and took me to a demonstration by a professional coffee taster who was evaluating random samples from coffee bags to ensure that what they had purchased was homogeneous. I was amazed to see that the coffee they taste bears no relation whatsoever to the beverage we drink. They basically pour scalding water on whole coffee beans and taste the resulting "infusion." Awful, to us, but they can tell everything they need to know from that.

Sounds like tasting a Sauternes from barrel (something I have far more difficulty doing than the red wines). It is still fruit juice and it takes a lot of experience to tell from the RS and acidity exactly what it will become later in life.

I suppose tasting port from the lager (for the few that still tread the grapes) before addition of spirits might be similarly challenging.

Funny this post should come up. I had my first Kopi Luwak today at fancy downtown Milan store Peck today. That's the most expensive coffee in the world only because it's shat out by a civet. And of course it's rare and supposedly, because of its low acidity, delicious. We are in Italy so of course they ground it up and made espresso out of it. Imagine having two mouthfuls of coffee for 15 euros!!! Hilarious! It was good. But my girlfriend ordered a house blend double espresso for far cheaper, I tasted it afterwards, and it was better!

A girlfriend of mine, who attended Brock U for her degree in oenology, once told me about a former professor of hers that only described wine in terms of music. An example would be a wine that had a lot of flutes, some secondary fiddle, and light percussion.

I agree that it's an interesting way of considering wine, but I don't think it's terribly useful for communicating wines with others. It's too highly subjective, and lord knows tasting notes are already super subjective as it is. Sticking to the basic parameters of nose, body, acidity, tannin, etc. at least let us have some basis of communal understanding.

...and lord knows tasting notes are already super subjective as it is. Sticking to the basic parameters of nose, body, acidity, tannin, etc. at least let us have some basis of communal understanding.

I agree.

I have admiration and respect for the folks I know in the business who have a vast repertoire of sensory memories to draw upon, but I'm not at all sure that the average reader of a sauvignon blanc tasting note has any idea what gooseberries taste like.

...and lord knows tasting notes are already super subjective as it is. Sticking to the basic parameters of nose, body, acidity, tannin, etc. at least let us have some basis of communal understanding.

I agree.

I have admiration and respect for the folks I know in the business who have a vast repertoire of sensory memories to draw upon, but I'm not at all sure that the average reader of a sauvignon blanc tasting note has any idea what gooseberries taste like.

Not to mention cat's pee......

Not to mention cat's pee......

I would hope the bouquet would be enough for most folks...

but I'm not at all sure that the average reader of a sauvignon blanc tasting note has any idea what gooseberries taste like.

They are pretty common in French produce markets. I guess you're saying not in the US?

As part of my own "continuing education", I attend coffee tastings on a fairly regular basis - at least 3-4 times annually - most of those held at either the headquarters of an importer or sometimes at one of their cafes. At in-house tastings, I have come to realize that buyers and tasters (often the same person in a relatively small operation) will taste the same batch at least four times:

1 - from raw beans as they arrive; 2 - from the roasted beans; 3- made simply by cracking or pulverizing the beans, pouring over near but not quite boiling water and letting the crushed beans steep; and then as a finished product in espresso form.

During the first and second tastings they first do an aromatic sampling and then simply bite into a single bean, letting the saliva and the nose do their work. In the second tasting, the coffee is allowed to steep, is then studied by eye and aroma, the foam on the top not stirred but simply blown off and then tasted. In the third form the espress is made using very precise measures, temperatures, pressure, etc.

One amusing aspect is that tasting in the third and fourth manners is seen by some as far more amusing than the tasting of wine, for the coffee is taken into the mouth via almost tightly pursed lips with as much air as possible, that in turn yielding what is considered by many to be a rather rude and quite loud shlurping sound. Also unlike wine, the coffee is swallowed and not spit, but because such minute quantities are taken into the mouth, little damage to the system occurs.

As to the language of coffee tasting - all one can say is that the language of coffee is far more complex than that of wine, containing at least 60 flavors and a variety of terms to describe both mouthfill and mouth-feel, those not usually found in wine tastings. And indeed, as there are wine "freaks" and "geeks" so is there the equivalent with coffee lovers.

Now, if we wanted to get into the tasting of cigars - ye gods - for the vocabulary of the true cigar aficionado is more rich than that of the wine and the coffee lover together. And then, by heaven, we get into the sublime complexities of tea tasting.

There is a rather perverse blessing in Hebrew: Thank God I was not born a woman". I'm one of those who always found that more than offensive, but if I did pray it would be to thank God that I was not born a tea taster. Far too much work for me.

Best
Rogov

I loathe coffee flavoured with vanilla, chocolate etc.

I say the same thing about flavoured wines.

I loathe coffee flavoured with vanilla, chocolate etc.

I say the same thing about flavoured wines.

I am rather partial to the grape flavoured wines but not so much the vegetable and fruit flavoured ones, and the ones tainted...er, flavoured with other substances like woodruff (as in the German May wines) leave me absolutely aghast.

This is a very interesting thread. It seems that wine writers have something to learn from coffee connoisseurs.

I have increasingly thought that more attention should be paid to mouthfill, mouth-feel as well as to shape on the palate. (I had a French book, which I can no longer find, which showed diagrams of the palate shape of several different wine types - only French, of course). I think that the notion of "range" is also potentially useful with the musical analogy of treble to bass emphasis. Light similes are also useful, I think, e.g. bright like Mosel to dark like some mature CndP.

This is a very interesting thread. It seems that wine writers have something to learn from coffee connoisseurs.

I have increasingly thought that more attention should be paid to mouthfill, mouth-feel as well as to shape on the palate.

I frequently describe what a wine does in the mouth geometrically - I say that it 'narrows' toward the end, or it 'broadens' across the palate, and I suppose that is similar to what you suggest. I agree - it doesn't usually just lay there, it changes and that change should be described.

Not to mention cat's pee......

I would hope the bouquet would be enough for most folks...

I try my best to avoid smelling cat's pee... or any animals pee for that matter. Why would I want a wine that smells that way?