WTN: Piemonte

Piemonte notes

2008 Ettore Germano Herzu Riesling – yes, a Riesling made in Piemonte, labelled as a Langhe. Zero varietal character, but with pretty good fruit in the nose, mostly melon, and a slight spritz we were pretty sure they hadn’t intended. Fairly good acid. Pleasant.

2001 Giacosa Barbaresco Asili – quite light in colour, good nose with fruit and tar, forward on palate but with lots of tannin and a long way to go. This wine is still rather primary but it is nice to get a look early on. Should have a good life ahead.

1997 Clerico Arte – an international style of wine still made mostly of Nebbiolo, but with a dash of barbera and often a bit of cabernet and aged in new French oak. This was not decanted and needed some time to open upo. When it did, it shifted from nothing but wet stone in the nose to a decent sweet fruit and vanilla nose. Good fruit on palate and still lots of tannin. I like this style. One taster commented he thought we’d tried the 97 before and it has showed better. Checked my notes and see we tried a 98 last Fall. Really should do a vertical.

2007 Elio Grasso Barbera Vigna Martino – Very, very young. Bit light on interest in the nose, medium weight, modern style, some oak toward the end. The fruit isn’t lavish, but is adequate. Reasonably tasty wine, but I was left wondering where this was going. Not a traditional wine.

1997 Ceretto Zonchera Barolo – I have been less than delighted with some of these wines in the past, but this one showed a very nice mature nose with a little mocha, smooth entry, decent fruit, and lots of softy tannin. Not a bad showing.

1982 Michele Chiarlo Barolo Vigna Riondo – a killer anise and leather nose, mature and mellow on palate, still holding good colour, and very good length. Great aromatics in this wine made you want to sit and smell it!

1998 Corino Barolo Vecchio Vigne – dark wine with black cherry and leather in the nose, smooth but still somewhat tannic in the mouth but drinking well now. My ears perked up when I saw this one as we don’t see it that often and I have a half case of the 1997 Vigna Giachini sleeping in the cellar.

1982 Ceretto Barolo Bricco Roche Brunate – interesting nose that was characterized as fenugreek, which I suppose I can agree with, but wouldn’t insist on as I rarely cook with fenugreek aside from the occasional seafood curry. Also a bit of Burgundian pong to this nose and in fact the nose was very Pinot like, with just a hint of something metallic. Lightening colour, ready now.

1997 Manzone Barolo La Gremolare – again, I took an interest when I found out what this was as I have the 93 and 94 vintages (these seem neglected these days, but very serviceable vintages they have been!). Excellent fruit in the nose, mostly cherries again, sweet entry, supple wine with smooth medium length finish. Tasty.

2009 La Stella Moscato d’Osoyoos – a BC made Moscato with 9.5% alcohol (I tasted this from tank and would have stopped fermentation at 5.5 or 6%). Lively varietal nose reasonably dry finish.

Thanks to Tony for organizing this event. A great line-up with all the wines performing well. Tastings like this confirm why I love Nebbiolo so much. Cheers.

• 2008 Germano Ettore Langhe Riesling Hérzu - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Langhe DOC
  Pale to medium yellow in colour. On the nose, mainly citrus and green apple with some floral and oaky notes. Some spritz on the palate with a good dose of oak on the finish. Medium acid and body. Neat to try a Riesling from Piedmont and a nice start to the evening. I liked this. Good. (87 pts.)
  
  
• 2001 Bruno Giacosa Barbaresco Asili - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barbaresco
  Medium ruby with some brown hues near the rim. Beautiful nose of barnyard, sweet sappy fruit with rose water, some tar and sweet red fruits. On the palate, quite forward with red fruits and dried papaya. Firm tannins and lots of acid. Feminine and delicate. Very primary but you can see all the potential. Needs a lot of time; 10 years will be a good start. Excellent. 93+ (93 pts.)
  
  
• 1997 Domenico Clerico Langhe Arte - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Langhe DOC
  Darker than the 2001 Giacosa. Very tight at first and needed a lot of swirling to reveal its ripe dark red fruits. On the palate dark, almost black fruits with pleasant oak. A ton of structure with mouth drying tannins and high acid. More masculine and modern than the 01 Giacosa. This needs another 5+ years before trying again. Excellent. 91+ (91 pts.)
  
  
• 2007 Elio Grasso Barbera d'Alba Vigna Martina - Italy, Piedmont, Alba, Barbera d'Alba
  Darkest wine yet. On the nose, toasty oak, ripe red fruits and some grapey notes. Palate gives more ripe fruit with caramel and vanilla. Extremely youthful. Medium, almost full bodied, smoother tannins and a decent amount of acid. This is delicious and lush and modern and young and needs some time to settle down and develop. Young, dark, and ripe are three words to best describe this wine. This won’t last 20 years, but it should improve over the next 5-7. Good. 87+ (87 pts.)
  
  
• 1997 Azienda Monsordo Bernardina (Ceretto) Barolo Zonchera - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo
  Beautiful nose of menthol, balsam, and leather with some red fruits coming through also. Flavours of red fruits and leather and hints of freshness. Good amount tannin and acid with a medium body and finish. Only complaint was that I found it slightly thin on palate. Showing some vegetal notes on the nose after some time in the glass which was very nice. Drinking very well now. Excellent. (90 pts.)
  
  
• 1998 Giovanni Corino Barolo Vecchie Vigne - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo
  Another great nose. Dark red fruits with leather, tar and roses. Has that beautiful maturing Barolo smell that I could smell this all night. Silky smooth on the palate but still has structure. Much darker and riper than the ’82 Barolo that followed it. As Rasoul noted, you would never guess this was 14.5%. Extremely enjoyable now but there’s more to come. Excellent. 92+ (92 pts.)
  
  
• 1982 Michele Chiarlo Barolo Riserva Serralunga - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo
  Wow. This nose is as good as it gets. Liquorice, roses, tar, worn leather, even some raisin notes. Sweet fruit on the palate, with a soft and silky mouth feel, but tannic as all hell. Nose had this almost metallic thing going on that was very nice. After an hour, some celery on the nose, also very nice. This wine kept evolving in the glass. A treat to taste wines of this calibre. I had a hard time putting this glass down. Drinking very well right now. Outstanding. (94 pts.)
  
  
• 1982 Azienda Bricco Rocche (Ceretto) Barolo Brunate - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo
  Murky reddish brown in colour. This might be the best nose of the night. There is a lot of filth going on here, and I couldn’t be happier. Sweet and sour red fruits, herbs, with a ton of funk and fungi. Most Burgundian nose of the night. Sweet fruit on the entry, and then a blast of tannin and acid. Very different than the Michele ‘82, and just shy of outstanding. Ready to go and I dont see this getting any better. Drink up. Excellent. (92 pts.)
  
  
• 1997 Giovanni Manzone Barolo Riserva Le Gramolere - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo
  Medium red with a slight brownish hue. Another great nose. Beautiful red fruits with rose water and hints of leather and some funk. Classic Barolo nose. Silky smooth and velvety on the palate. Lots of tannin and acid. Extremely enjoyable now, but better in 5+ years. Excellent. 92+ (92 pts.)
  
  
• 2009 LaStella Moscato - Canada, British Columbia, Okanagan Valley
  From 375ml. Great nose of canned pear and tropical fruits. Slightly sharp and angular in the mouth. Surprisingly dry, I'd almost prefer a bit more sweetness on this. Love the nose, palate is good. Very impressive for a first try. Good. (87 pts.)

Yup - if they'd stopped fermentation on the Moscato a little earlier it would have been much better - more like a light Moscato d'Asti (the lack of fizz aside, which was explained to us as a failure on the part of the bottler).

Bill,

I am a little confused by your 'zero varietal character' remark with regard to the Germano Riesling; I would agree with Devin that the wine shows citrus, green apple and floral notes, which are all classic Riesling markers. It's very different from the classic German examples, which is perhaps what you meant. In fact the very first vintage ('06, I think) was very limey, as are the classic Australian examples, although this is fading as the vines get older.

Devin,

the Herzù is fermented and aged entirely in stainless steel.

NB I import Sergio Germano's wines in my market

It was impossible to tell that this was a Riesling by the nose. That's what I meant. The other markers are consistent with, but not exclusive to, a Riesling.

Bill,

I'm afraid I have to take issue with you here; the wine shows a number of classic Riesling markers, which is not at all the same as 'zero varietal character.' Given that it shows a number of classic varietal markers it isn't too much of a jump to identify it. I would add high acidity to the other characteristics.

I should add that the 'spritz' is a side-effect of the winemaking process, and is normal.

Bill,

I'm afraid I have to take issue with you here; the wine shows a number of classic Riesling markers, which is not at all the same as 'zero varietal character.' Given that it shows a number of classic varietal markers it isn't too much of a jump to identify it. I would add high acidity to the other characteristics.

I should add that the 'spritz' is a side-effect of the winemaking process, and is normal.

The wine we tasted last night didn't. It was a mishmash of various characteristics including an impression of oak on Devin's part, none of which pointed definitively toward Riesling. I am quite prepared to agree with you that other bottles, the ones you refer too, have been a bit clearer about this. And the degree of effervescence in our bottle was almost enough to call a flaw - the result of secondary fermentation in an insufficiently stabilized wine, not just a hint, really. If you rep the wine I can understand you sticking up for it, but in any case this bottle that we tasted didn't show as varietally characteristic for any of us, except that after half an hour or more the nose did start to show a bit of Riesling character.

Let's wait and see what Jenise thought - maybe she nailed it right off as a Riesling, but I don't recall her doing that.

Residual CO2 in Italian white wine is often mis-identified as a flaw, but it's normal in cold-fermented wines that have not been treated to de-gas them. I have seen this in more Italian white wines than I can count, and I haven't yet found a bottle that was re-fermenting, it's always been residual from fermentation. That doesn't mean it can't happen, particularly in a wine with several grams of RS and no ML, but this wine was sterile filtered.

I don't merely rep the wine, I am very fond of it and have drunk quite a bit of it, but fortunately that doesn't prevent me from discussing it professionally.

Oliver,

If its fermented and aged entirely in stainless steel, then im not sure why the wine came across as oaked, but it did. I would also add that even though my descriptors are ones you would see from a typical Riesling, the wine as a whole did not scream Riesling. The hints of oaky notes and its medium acidity (not high and not as high as im used to from Rieslings) I think are the main reasons why most didn't guess this as a Riesling.

Devin,

the most accurate form of blind tasting is when you know what the wine is and someone else is having to guess, obviously, and that's the happy position I'm in here. I was just pointing out that a wine that shows the characteristics you mentioned cannot be said to have 'zero varietal character,' as you mentioned a check-list of those characteristics. Whether I would have nailed it is another thing entirely; the earliest vintages had a strong lime-peel note that was a give-away, but the '08 and '09 are more complex.

[Jenise]

No help here on the Reisling debate:

2008 Ettore Germano Herzu Riesling
Rich (extract? just ripeness?), oil, granny smith apple, galia melon, lemon and multi-vitamin minerality. Balanced. A very mild spritz takes nothing away from the wine, in fact makes it lively and joyful. Would never guess it to be riesling, but I would buy this. I guessed Arneis immediately--a grape I love--and was quite surprised to be wrong.

2001 Giacosa Barbaresco Asili
Big nose, highly aromatic nose of cherries and dried thyme. Feminine, refined, and polished in spite of the firm tannins with pure flavors on the palate. Very clear in the glass too--does Giacosa fine/filter? Hard to believe this wine isn't both, but I thought Giacosa more traditional. Excellent.

1997 Clerico Arte
Bill's wine. First smell is the brown paper skin on a Spanish onion. Odd, but not offputting. Dark wine, rustic looking compared to the Giacosa, and nothing here seems nebbiolish--barbera? I ask, Bill says maybe. Hmm. Big, grippy tannins, dusty, very dry on the finish. A playful rustic mutt next to the Giacosa's pure-breed. Very good.

1997 Azienda Monsordo Bernardina (Ceretto) Barolo Zonchera
Another great Barolo nose. Leathery with dried cherries and plums. Something a little like mint but not quite here. Drinks very well now. Very good.

2007 Elio Grasso Barbera Vigna Martino
Tony's wine. Grapey (which I dislike mightily on any wine), modern, young, vanilla oak. California-ish ripeness. I throw out "Leonetti Sangiovese!" to express my disbelief that I'm drinking a product of Piedmont. But this bottle was actually hand-carried back from Rome, we learn. Needs more time to shed the baby fat and reconnect with it's old world roots.

1982 Michele Chiarlo Barolo Vigna Riondo
Can't improve on your description, Bill. Textbook old Barolo nose. Outstanding. This is why we age wine.

1998 Corino Barolo Vecchio Vigne
My wine. Dark and brooding, biggest wine of the night, spicy nose with black cherry and nutmeg on the palate. Was decanted at home to separate it from the sediment and given about an hour of air time to loosen up. Perfectly poised at that middle-aged stage of maturity I personally love where it's well past being a young man but not yet an old one. Good tannins, big future. A recent acquisition that I was thrilled showed so well since I inadvertently left one of our two bottles standing in the garage (Bill--at least it wasn't in the driveway as I feared!). Thanks to Rasoul and Coop who threw in the extra bottles to cover me. Excellent.

1982 Ceretto Barolo Bricco Roche Brunate
Rasoul is so good to us, another '82. Saturated cork. Initially a bit of bretty funk that never entirely blew off. Cloudy, perhaps a bit shaken, but that doesn't seem important to anyone presentr: very burgundian with an intense, sweet finish. I preferred the other '82, but this was nonetheless excellent.

1997 Manzoni Barolo La Gremolare
Emily's wine and one of my favorites of the night. Almost feminine with it's poise and restraint, with cherries, bergamot and a hint of tar. Very cut and toned; flawless. Outstanding.

2009 La Stella Moscato d’Osoyoos
Papaya, dried pear and grapefruit with a dryness that saves it from turning tropical. Interesting and refreshing.

Great wines, and great food--best overall meal ever from Chef Bill Murray , and I must really send up some love for the the polenta with caribou ragu and the duck proscuitto on the cured meat plate he served at the end of the night.

Oliver. You can't be serious, Either we had a flawed bottle, which could be the case because of the re fermentation or we don't know what riesling should show like. One taster next to me even said the word malo.

I hunted this wine like a holy grail for the last year after being told there was no riesling in Piemonte by a wine clerk in Seattle. I knew he was wrong because of what I read in the Gambero Rosso. There was definetly Riesling in piemonte and I was going to find it. Now I'm begininning to think he was correct. After tasting this Chardonnay wannabe I'm beginning to doubt myself and the GR.

If I lived in the US I would be calling K and L right now and ask for some sort of compensation for this dissapointing wine. That $27 US I'll never get back.

Green apple is a characteristic in many a wine. It doesn't always point to Riesling. I knew what this wine is, because I brought it and I knew it was riesling and wasn't surprised when others thought it was Chardonnay. Anyways here are my notes.

2008 Germano Ettore Langhe Riesling Hérzu - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Langhe DOC (5/6/2010)
Very light clear yellow with a viel of tiny little bubbles floating on top. Apples, lemons and floral notes in a bit of a lush nose. There was a bit of spritz as well. The flavours were more apple and lemon and it seemed like either oak or god forbid malo. The finish mirrored this and was a bit oily. nice acid.

So I spend a year looking for a Riesling from Piemonte expecting it to be dry, austere and Varietally correct and I end up with this bottle fermented Chardonnay wannabe. Not a wine to fool or impress your friends with.

2001 Bruno Giacosa Barbaresco Asili - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barbaresco (5/6/2010)
Dark red, very bright. Floral primary red fruit nose, a bit tight but obviously great quality. Nice red fruit flavours and lots of tannin and acid in the long finish. Mine seemed to close up after a bit in the glass. This one needs a decade or so before opening again.

Oh to be young and have 11 bottles of this resting in my cellar.

1997 Domenico Clerico Langhe Arte - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Langhe DOC (5/6/2010)
Dark edges, a youthful appearance. Really tight nose at first showing lots of mineral and not much else. After a bit the black fruit begins to appear with a little touch of buttery oak. Nice dark cherry fruit flavours and a very tannic long finish. The sweetness in the nose seems typical of 97. Good but not as good as the 98.

2007 Elio Grasso Barbera d'Alba Vigna Martina - Italy, Piedmont, Alba, Barbera d'Alba (5/6/2010)
Dark red. Some grapey fruit hides behind a jacket of toasy oak. The nose is just too young to evaluate. Like a barrel sample. I guessed this was Barbera because it certainly wasn't Nebbiolo. Nice fruit flavours but there was a lot of carmel and vanilla there as well. High acid and medium tannin. This would be a lot better in 5 or so years.

I love younger wines but I really think the wines of Piemonte need some time, even the better Dolcettos seem better after 5 or so years. This New World monster needs a good scolding and a long nap.

1997 Azienda Monsordo Bernardina (Ceretto) Barolo Zonchera - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (5/6/2010)
Darkish red. Leather, balsam and dark fruit nose. Some tasters detected a bit of menthol but not me. Nice resolved flavours and finish. This wine showed better in the past. It was a serviceable Barolo very typical of the producer and vintage.

1982 Michele Chiarlo Barolo Vigna Rionda - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (5/6/2010)
Medium red with pale edges, slight bricking. Anise, roses, tar and some really nice earth in a very intense nose. That great aged Barolo nose. Very nice cherry and eath flavours. Although this wine had that great aged Barolo nose the finish seemed quite youthful. This could go another 20 years and keep improving.

1998 Giovanni Corino Barolo Vecchie Vigne - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (5/6/2010)
Dark red> Black fruit, black cherry and spice with a bit of earth and leather in a beautiful medium wieght nose. Very nice cherry and leather flavours. Lots of tannins left in this fairly wieghty wine. Excellent. I thought this wine may have been ignored in all of the confusion at the table. I found it to be one of my favorites even after the fantastic wine it followed.

1982 Azienda Bricco Rocche (Ceretto) Barolo Brunate - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (5/6/2010)
Light red with pale edges. The most Burgundian nose of the night with mushrooms, tea, and sour cherries. Quite sweet and intense as well. The flavours mirror the nose with lots of sweet cherry. The finish was long and balanced. I preferred the previouis wine but this was very good as well. Just a little to sweet for me.

1997 Giovanni Manzone Barolo Le Gramolere - Italy, Piedmont, Langhe, Barolo (5/6/2010)
Lighter red. Violets, tea, and cherries along with a bit of funk. Nice dry red fruit flavours and a long medium wieght finish. Excellent. Refreshing after the older wines.

2009 LaStella Moscato D'Osoyoos - Canada, British Columbia, Okanagan Valley (5/6/2010)
Clear appearance without a lot of colour. Apples, peaches and melon on a slightly sweet nose. Very nice pear and peach flavours. Drier then one would expect. I really liked this. I hope the winery continus to make this style.

Posted from CellarTracker

Gosh, David, where to start?

1. There are a number of Rieslings in Piedmont; Vajra's been making one for years.
2. Don't believe everything you read in the GR.
3. Don't insult wines you don't understand. I studied blind tasting intently for years; the most seasoned tasters make mistakes about wines, such as thinking that wines that don't go through ML show ML character, or wines that weren't aged or fermented in wood show wood notes; I know I have; there's no shame in it; but being outraged after having been demonstrably mistaken is wacky. That wine did not as a matter of fact spend any time in wood, and if it went through ML in the bottle there'd be more than the odd bubble, the wine would be completely bizarre. I've drunk maybe a case of that vintage and always had the same experience, hint of spritz and all.

Oliver. I wonder if you would be so quick to insult us and defend this wine if you didn't represent it? I suppose because you state you have had years of experience blind tasting we should just agree with your impressions and question ours.

David,

Representing it isn't the half of it, I spent a day once helping to plant the vineyard where it's grown, and I spend maybe six weeks a year in the village nearby. But none of that prevents me from being able to discuss the wine critically.

I have been in the wine business for more than thirty years, and have studied blind tasting carefully for maybe half that time, and I mention all this only to say that I make mistakes all the time. But if someone tells me I'm finding qualities in a wine that cannot be there I think of it as a learning experience. The only reason you should accept my 'impression' here is because I know how the wine is made, as a matter of fact; it's not a question of opinion. 'Chardonnay wannabe' is simply a mistake; as a matter of fact I tasted the Chardonnay from this vineyard recently with a group of extremely critical buyers and they loved it because of its mineral character.

the most seasoned tasters make mistakes about wines, such as thinking that wines that don't go through ML show ML character, or wines that weren't aged or fermented in wood show wood notes; I know I have; there's no shame in it; but being outraged after having been demonstrably mistaken is wacky. .

Well said. I don't think anyone who tastes blind often hasn't made some doozy mistakes, but most just shrug when it's pointed out. No one doesn't miss sometimes. Doesn't make your impressions less valid as to what you experienced, but it does mean you were wrong in your conclusions- as we all are sometimes (me more than most).

There you go. Obviously you have a lot of effort invested in this wine. I found it very dissapointing, others at the table found it had no real varietal characteristics. I don't really post my notes here but when Bill told me about your defence of this wine I thought I would chime in.

That's great that you have all of that experience in the wine business and with blind tasting. That doesn't mean my impressions are wrong, at least in my mind. So we should agree to disagree. The one thing I would say though is every time I see someone with a business interest in a product or restaurant come to the defence of their product it always seems to get heated.

The one thing I would say though is every time I see someone with a business interest in a product or restaurant come to the defence of their product it always seems to get heated.

Your impressions were your impressions, Dave. And your disagreement with Oliver was your (mutual) disagreement. All that's fine.

But I think you immediately jump to an unwarranted generalization here and paint with that all-consuming broad brush. I've been in plenty of instances where people who are involved in products can discuss them pretty well and not get, as you say, "heated"---by which you mean totally lacking in all ability to judge or assess or comment on.

I've also been in situations where some sort of internal or background information helped me assess a wine more clearly than perhaps a brief assessment within a couple of minutes might have given me.

Don't let this one argument you're having become an "always" situation when it's not warranted.

(And a disinterested observer comment: 1) for you to say you'd go back to the retailer and ask for your money back because you didn't think the wine was sufficiently 'riesling correct'...i.e., you didn't like it...even after you were given pretty sound information that the wine was more than likely typical to its producer, is out of line, or at least an exaggerated response. Corked, oxidized, maderized, vinegar---those are valid reasons to ask for a refund. "I was disappointed and didn't like it as much as I thought I would" is not a valid reason to ask for one. 2) I've been doing the tasting thing for over 30 years now (which, apparently, doesn't give me any insight whatsoever according to your rules ), and I would have reacted pretty much the same way as Oliver did initially to the "zero varietal character" comment. The descriptions given by the tasters sure gave me an indication there were pretty significant varietal characteristics observed. Kinda hard to list varietal characteristics and then have a claim of zero varietal character in the same breath.)

Well there you go, next time I get apples, and lemon in a lush nose and some oak in the flavours with what may seem to be malo, and an oily feel. I should think Riesling. Valuable information.

All
It seems the discussion started off ok - disagreeing, but attempting to find the root of the disagreement. It's veered a little towards critricism of the other person's tasting ability. Unintentional I'm sure, but the distinction is a significant one in terms of maintaining a productive discussion.

Oliver has stated his interest, which I very much applaud. As such, I'd agree that it's not appropriate to make a point of this. We can all see the declaration and judge for ourselves. Better that way, than an importer, merchant or winemaker feeling reticent about declaring that interest.

Back to the topic, we seem to have an interesting wine, provoking differing opinions and not following the stereotypical image of the grape. If I were the winemaker, I'd be glad to see my wine provoking discussion.

regards

Ian

Hoke
Just one thought on the concept of a refund. Would it not depend on one's relationship with the retailer?

If I'd just popped into a shop, selected the bottle myself, then been upset at not liking it or it not being typical/varietal... well that's just tough luck.

However if I'd popped into my favourite merchant, who'd recommended the wine to me, saying it's a great riesling and as I'm such a fan of Mosel rieslings, this would be right up my street. Then perhaps I might pass comment next time I was in, that the wine wasn't at all like they described. I know of at least one local merchant who would refund without question in such a situation - as he's utterly focused on repeat business and building up a relationship with his customers.

Personally I don't even return corked bottles (though I really should). To date I've only ever returned 2 bottles (one fizzy through unintended secondary fermentation and the other through a seriously leaky screwcap), so whilst there might be a legitimate reason for a refund, I seriously doubt whether I myself would be asking for one.

regards

Ian

I think I used a bit of hyperbole to describe how unhappy I was at the performance of this wine. No other notes on CT or on K and L's website described any kind of spritz. So were there bottles flawed or did they not understand the wine either?

If Oliver had drank from the same bottle we drank from then I would have seriously entertained his thoughts. I even wouldn't have minded his comment about me not understanding the wine, but he didn't and his comments come across as a bit self serving and insulting. In my opinion it was a bad bottle, either from storage, shipment or winemaking. Others thought it was decent to good but didn't show much character.

This winter I had lunch with Julien Barrot and he poured the 06 Pure, Fiance and Signature. The Fiance was extremely tight and the Signature very open and enjoyable. Later in the afternoon he met up with another friend of ours and poured the same wines from different bottles. They showed completely the opposite. Both of us posted notes on another site and pointed out how different the wines were. It happens to bottles from the same case. Every bottle can be different.

Perhaps Oliver drank wine from the same or different case who can say but my opinion is that every bottles has the potential to show differently. If I read on a board that a wine I love showed poorly this is my first thought, not that the poster doesn't understand the wine or doesn't know how to taste properly. If I did have that thought, I would keep it to myself.

I'll just add one more comment.

This wasn't a bad wine.

It also wasn't a good Riesling.

Hearing what anyone who wasn't there to taste this bottle thinks of THIS wine isn't going to be productive, unless they are saying that this is how it always tastes, for instance. I'd welcome the chance to taste another bottle so I'd at least be able to start forming an opinion if this one was the way the producer intended it to be (in which case I wouldn't be a customer) or if it was an off bottle (in which case I might).

Bill. Do you remember when one of our friends brough a wine from the winery he managed and served it to us? You and I both noticed it was slightly corked. If he responded that we didn't understand the wine, maybe we would have seen his point because he was drinking from the same bottle as us. Of course he realized it was slightly corked. Just saying it's hard enough to asess the wines you drink let alone trying to guess how it tastes and smells when you are miles away.