hi..im new...some questions about wine...

Hi my name is Nicole and my husband is David we are new to the board and to wine drinking.

My husband and I prefer whites....but have been trying very hard to aquire a taste for Red's as we know they have some good health benefits....However,...the only red that we have come even close to being able to enjoy so far is White Merlot ha ha...(i know its not really RED)....we have not tried the Pinot Noir yet though and a friend recommended we try that....however, here is my question...Does Pinot Noir or White Merlot's have any of the health benefits that Regular Red's (Merlot and Cab's) have?

Thanks to all who can assist here...and nice to meet you all

Welcome.
Pinot Noir is a typical/regular red. It should provide as many health benefits as Cabernet or Merlot
White Merlot has less tannins and resveratrol (from less skin contact), so one would guess less of any health benefits from that.
Any wine drinking seem to provide some health benefits - and some health risks.
Hopefully someone with more real knowledge can respond

[Jenise]

Hi my name is Nicole and my husband is David we are new to the board and to wine drinking.

My husband and I prefer whites....but have been trying very hard to aquire a taste for Red's as we know they have some good health benefits....However,...the only red that we have come even close to being able to enjoy so far is White Merlot ha ha...(i know its not really RED)....we have not tried the Pinot Noir yet though and a friend recommended we try that....however, here is my question...Does Pinot Noir or White Merlot's have any of the health benefits that Regular Red's (Merlot and Cab's) have?

Thanks to all who can assist here...and nice to meet you all

Nicole, welcome! You made me laugh with that comment about white merlot. Let me ask, which REAL white wines do you and David like best? Wondering if your preference is for sweeter vs. dry. Feel free to name brands, that could help.

jenise....

we are gonna really sound like "amatures" here...but oh well...I love love love love love...Barefoot's Moscato...and we just started loving Sutter Home's White Merlot...ya see we have tried SWEET Red's in the past and they were usually just way to sweet (even for our liking)...then we had the White Merlot and what I liked about it was that even though its a little sweet (which to me is the white part) you can also taste just enough of RED but enough thats tolerable....I find every Red Ive tried (mostly Merlot's) Alice White (which was "OK") and Shiraz...they just taste...ughhhh soooo strong like not sweet enough to enjoy....someone told us to try cutting red w/ cranberry juice for a week...to get used to it....?? I may have to try that...I am excited to try the Pinot Noir though...?

Hi Nicole (and David) and welcome. A good red wine (IMHO) is meant to be paired with food, so to gain a proper appreciation, you should try it with a meal. An old acquaintance once described the process like this: Imagine having a fine steak with a Coke or a beer. You taste the first few bites and it's great, but by the time you get to the last bite, it seems like you're just chewing meat. However, with a sip of red wine between bites, the tannins and acid cleanse your palate and the last bite of steak tastes as good as the first. `I actually drink a lot more whites than I do reds, but I love certain reds when paired properly. If you're at a tasting of red wines, try to imagine sipping the between bites of beef.

I haven't tried any of these wines, but the wine you mention that strikes me as telling is the Moscato. I love Muscat, although I generally prefer dry versions, but this is usually such a light and fragrant grape that even off-dry is OK, and of course sweet makes sense for dessert.

A couple of thoughts, one of which seems to already be with you, is perhaps to carefully cultivate a taste for dryer wines, you will then have access to the other 90% of the wine universe. As for suggestions, leaning towards shiraz and merlot make sense in that these are generally less tannic (many people perceive tannins as dry/tart), but I might suggest some cool-climate red wines, these are often lighter and even less tannic. For example, I recently tried my first Spaetburgunder (pinot noir from Germany), it was amongst the lightest and most elegant PNs I have enjoyed. Similarly, many USA cool-climate states (New York and Michigan come to mind), make off-dry but not too sweet red wines (sorry I cannot give specific examples, other than perhaps Lemburger), which are generally inexpensive, so they would not cost very much to experiment.

I hope this is of some help, and might lead to an eventual broadening of your palate! Finally, consider trying almost any new wine with a suitable meal. I have personally found that many wines which are quite tart when drunk solo can be be spectacular when properly paired.

One thing you should definitely try is decanting a red at least one hour before serving it. Two hours is better. They tend to smooth out that way, and often deepen in flavor too. I saw some very nice carafes in my local Walmart this week, for instance. They are good to use for decanting.

But some reds, like some young serious Cabs and Bordeaux, and any others that may have a lot of astringent tannin in them (the plant material that is also in tea that makes it taste "dry" or astringent, as we winos are used to saying...) can actually "close up" and become less friendly with extended aeration. But these tend to be the more "serious" examples, meant to be cellared, as the tannins are a natural preservative. Serious reds are meant to be cellared, and sometimes it takes 20 years or more for the best to really hit their peak. THEN they will be mellow and quite enjoyable!

But Pinot Noir is inherently less tannic than Cabernet, for instance, and most California wines are softer than most Bordeaux, for instance, maybe because the weather is generally warmer, maybe because the wineries expect people to want to drink their wines while they are young. Definitely try decanting one or two hours ahead of time - it can make all the difference in the world!

Hi Nicole - There's a whole universe of wine out there to be explored: have fun. Drink what you enjoy ... and over time you'll probably find that you enjoy a broader range of wines than when you start. When you go to the wine shop to look for red wines, you might try asking the salesperson for something "soft and rounded" rather than "sweet".

cheers,
Matilda

Here is a quick little test that I use to give to folks who said they did not like read wine.

Do you drink coffee? If yes do you drink it black or only with milk and/or sugar? (You can change coffee to tea and the question is the same)

Do you drink beer? If yes do you drink Bud/Miller or do you prefer imports/microbrews?

If you don't drink coffee or beer you probably won't like red wine. If you drink Bud and coffee loaded with milk and sugar chances are also low that you will like red wine. If you drink black coffee by the gallon and pour back a few guiness on the weekend than you will like red wine given time/you find the right ones.

Essentially what you are trying to determine is your tolerance for bitter compounds. As Red wine has more tannins and therefore is more bitter, red it is a more acquired taste than white some folks never get there.

[Jenise]

When you go to the wine shop to look for red wines, you might try asking the salesperson for something "soft and rounded" rather than "sweet".

cheers,
Matilda

Very good advice, Ava.

Nicole, Matilda's onto something there. I'm sure it's not safe for me to generalize about white merlot since I've only tasted one, but if that one (a Beringer) was typical then white merlot tends to be lower acid and more off-dry than dry. Haven't tried the Barefoot Moscato, but suspect it's also on the sweet side (containing a bit more sugar than a true dry wine) and in combination those wines suggest that you'll probably find most red wines a bit too dry at first. Your greatest chance of success then lies with wines that are, as Matilda mentioned, soft and rounded, but also fruit-forward. Those are real wine terms that any good sales person in a real wine store would be able to use to steer you toward some good selections. Were I your clerk I'd be thinking pinot noir, for it's lighter body, and merlot for it's generally lower acid and tannin than many other red wines. Zinfandel (the original, red) could work out nicely too as they tend to categorically be fruit-forward wines and they're spicy, which may ring an echo with your liking for muscat, but these days they tend to run a bit higher in alcohol (15% plus sometimes) and you'd find anything over 14% too strong, I think.

True story: when I was young I only drank tea. But when I got into the working world, coffee ruled so I forced myself to learn to like it. At first, each cup needed two teaspoons of sugar, but once I got to where I actually liked the taste of coffee I started naturally liking less and less sugar. By the time a year had passed, I stopped adding sugar at all. Where I'm going with that is that the person who suggested you try cutting the red wine with something sweeter could be giving you good advice. But cranberry juice wouldn't be the right thing unless you like cranberry juice--some people find it bitter and as an additive it might not complement all wines. I might reccomend that you make a simple syrup--melt about a tablespoon of sugar in a cup of hot water, let it cool, store in a jar or bottle in the fridge. You could have to play around with ratios and add more or less sugar to that, but I'm thinking that a good starting place for a cutting brew of which a dollop would add sweetness and dilution of strength without inserting any distracting/masking flavors. Over time, like me and coffee, you should find yourself truly enjoying the real wine flavors and needing less and less intervention until you realize you don't want any at all. With cutting in mind, I would tend to add Zinfandel back to the list of grapes I'd reccomend to you, but "soft and rounded" zinfandels to be sure.

I sometimes recommend a Beaujolais Villages wine for those who are trying to get into red wines. It's from the Gamay grape and can be soft and fruity. Pinot Noir is another area to explore--Castle Rock or King Estate might be brands to try. Castle Rock may be priced around $11-$13 and King Estate under $30. You might also enjoy rose' wines which are especially refreshing in warm weather (but may not have much resveratrol.) Rose' wines can be made from almost any red-wine grape (Syrah, Grenache, Cabernet Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, etc.) and are inexpensive for the most part.

Hi Nicole (and David) and welcome. A good red wine (IMHO) is meant to be paired with food, so to gain a proper appreciation, you should try it with a meal. An old acquaintance once described the process like this: Imagine having a fine steak with a Coke or a beer. You taste the first few bites and it's great, but by the time you get to the last bite, it seems like you're just chewing meat. However, with a sip of red wine between bites, the tannins and acid cleanse your palate and the last bite of steak tastes as good as the first. `I actually drink a lot more whites than I do reds, but I love certain reds when paired properly. If you're at a tasting of red wines, try to imagine sipping the between bites of beef.

Hi Nicole and welcome from me as well. I am also a newbie on the forum and eager to learn all that I can. I want to share a recent experience from my wine class.

I was recently in a wine class and the instructor pointed out what Howie noted as well. He said that the fat in the beef/meat/cheese, whatever it is, will coat your tongue and make a younger, more alcoholic wine taste more smooth. Now some of your may know more than my instructor, so I am leaving this up to debate. He told a story about how he was in the kitchen putting finishing touches on dinner and he opened the red wine to realize that is was younger and had a stronger taste of alcohol than he thought his guests would appreciate. He said he served dinner first and asked everyone to dig in to let the fat juice from the meat fill their mouths before he brought out everyone's wine. His story ended with everyone enjoying the wine he feared they would all find too strong.

So the point of my post is this. At first I didn't really believe him, so I tried some strong red wine with a steak. Delicious. I am still somewhat skeptical though. Is there some science to this and is that really why wine goes so well with food?

Re wine health benefits, I'm a disciple of Professor Roger Corder, who wrote Wine Diet. According to him, the principle health giving ingredients in red wine are procyanidins. Unfortunately for newbies these are principally found in more tannic wines. These tend to be an acquired taste. Roger Corder rates wines on their procyanidins content and the wine type which comes out best is Madiran from South West France but there are other wines, particularly from France and Italy, which score very well. Commercial wines with soft tannins are mostly poor in procyanidins.

Resveratrol is also very beneficial but their presence in wine is so low that it would need a daily consumption of some 5 litres to bring the ideal amount of those benefits .

Don't let this discourage you, however, Nicole. There are some good tips in this tread for getting into red wine and many wine nuts have made the rake's progress from softer easy drinking types to more complex and demanding bottles. Who knows? You may be lapping up Madiran before long and it helps that it is not a very expensive wine type but it is not easy to find everywhere.

I just wanted to say Thank you so much to all of you...!!!!!! I am so glad that I posted here and the information you all gave my husband and I was wonderful. We are opening our first bottle of Pinot Noir tonight and having it w/ some cheese's

Thanks again!

Nicole

Nice to hear, Nicole! We'd love to hear which wine you try and how you like it.

So the point of my post is this. At first I didn't really believe him, so I tried some strong red wine with a steak. Delicious. I am still somewhat skeptical though. Is there some science to this and is that really why wine goes so well with food?

Sort of, for some of it, but don't ask me for references to the original research.

Tannins react with protein in the saliva, which results in solids being precipitated. The precipitation reduces the lubricating efect of your saliva and causes your gums to slide less easily over your teeth, thus creating the feeling of astringency and dryness. I think all that so far is pretty solidly based in science. (Tannins are pretty much functionaly defined by their ability to react with proteins - the best example being their ability to make leather from animal skins.)

The theory then goes that if you have additional protein in your mouth the tannins bind with those tannins, allowing your saliva to work more as normal. I am not totally convinced by that. The contents of your mouth must be pretty complex by that stage, and its seems to me that the chances are that your mouth is watering so much more with the prospect of food anyway. It could well be that the additional saliva is what has the biggest effect on reducing the feeling of astringency.

Steve,

Thanks for the informative reply. I think that is some of the same ideas he was basing it on. I guess I will have to continue to research and test that hypothesis.

-Walter

HI, Nicole, and welcome.

Keep one thing in mind: The most important thing in wine appreciation is what YOU like. YOU are the one drinking the stuff. Other people's opinions don't matter.

By "white merlot" I assume you're talking about a pinkish-tinted wine? What is called "rose" (accent on the 'e') or sometimes, in French "vin gris" (literally "grey wine")?

A lot of rose wine is finished off-dry, with a touch (or more) of sweetness to it. I recommend you try some of the examples that are finished dry (without residual sugar, but still fruity), such as Bonny Doon's Vin Gris de Cigare. Or Tavel, from France.

And yes, as previously explained, it's believed that the health benefits of red wine largely lie in the red pigments. So you'll get a lot less of this from rose wines than from full red wines.

-Paul W.

Hi Nicole,

Welcome to WLDG! Health benefits from wine are a great thing and give me just one more excuse er I mean reason to buy more wine and enjoy it with my dinner. But as others have said, choose wine you love to drink and don't worry about the health benefits that much. Many of the health benefits of wine really do not become kick in until you are, ahem, over 50. I qualify for such benefits but that's not the reason I drink wine.

I would second the notion to ease into reds by trying some roses. They are the gateway to bigger and better things. And give yourself some time to search for wines you really enjoy. Don't give up after a couple of tries. You have to find your own wine groove and the search is most of the fun! Enjoy!

If you like white grapes, stick with white wines. I've ate at $200+/pp restaurants and the sommelier was happy to pair a fine white wine with any dish.

Have you tried white zinfandel?