Bad retail experience

[Jenise]

On Friday, friends and I went to Wade's Wines in Westlake Village, California. I had only brought four bottles of wine down with me and needed a bit more variety to contribute to our various meals & events over the four days I was going to be in town. I had particularly wanted to have the opportunity to shop for and taste wines I read about and rarely see in my market here in Washington state. I picked up six to try at Wade's, all Cali pinots in the $50 bracket, an area in which Wade's has excels. To my surprise five of the six bottles got opened on Friday night. Three were so spectacular my hosts wanted to go back Saturday to buy more--they've been loyal Wades shoppers since I mentioned the store to them about eight years ago after it opened when it advertised here on WLDG (Robin used to sell banner advertisements).

Anyway, back to wines we opened Friday night, an 06 August West Rosella's pinot was fizzy. Secondary fermentation. $48. So we stuck the cork back in to return it on Saturday morning. Which we did: before we began shopping, I set my bottle down on the sales counter and explained in a friendly manner why I was returning it.

"New policy," said the short man who was missing literally every other tooth, "we don't accept returns." WHAT? "Well, only Mr. Wade himself can now decide whether he's going to accept a return or not, and he's not in."

"But I'm returning a flawed bottle."

"Well only Mr. Wade can determine if it's a flawed bottle or not," he said.

"Excuse ME, but I know when a bottle is fizzy and I know the possible causes of it and I know when I didn't get the wine I intended to have. Isn't there a manager, or an assistant manager?," I countered.

"I'm the assistant manager," he answered, adding, it seemed to suggest, that I had unusual temerity, "and we get surprisingly few returns."

"But that's not because you sell better wine or because I have a lot of nerve," I said, "it's because the average consumer doesn't know why the wine they're disappointed in is disappointing. I do. And when I spend $50 on a bottle of wine I want what I paid for. And it's not like you're in for some big loss, you'll get reimbursed by the distributor anyway."

"Well, sometimes we do and sometimes we don't."

"Then that's YOUR problem and part of your cost of doing business. I'm entitled to a refund."

"Well, you'll just have to come back on Monday."

"I won't be here on Monday. I live in Washington state and I'll be on a plane on Monday. I'm here NOW, and you have to deal with me NOW."

"Then have your friend come back on Monday, and if Mr. Wade authorizes a refund he can give it to her and she can send it to you."

"Excuse me but it's over a 20 mile round trip down here and I'm not going to trouble my friend with making that trip twice. It's not neccessary. It's my purchase, and Mr. Wade has to deal with me. Here's my phone number, and here's the bottle, and here's my receipt which you can make a copy of. Have him call me."

And that's where it stands. I haven't spoken to him yet. But jeez: I have returned a few bottles in my time and have never encountered treatment like this. We left the store without buying any of the additional wines we came for, and when we got home and told Annabelle's partner what happened, he said "We're never buying there again." We spent our wine $$ at Bristol Farms instead.

I'm reminded of the old saw from the restaurant biz: bad service will kill your restaurant quicker than bad food.

I have never heard of Wade's Wines. Where is it located?

In your story you mentioned that you were entitled to a refund. In some states it is not legal for a retailer to grant a refund on an alcohol purchase. What they should have done though was given you a suitable replacement for what was clearly a flawed bottle of wine.

You may wish to drop the winery a note as well.

[Jenise]

I have never heard of Wade's Wines. Where is it located?

In your story you mentioned that you were entitled to a refund. In some states it is not legal for a retailer to grant a refund on an alcohol purchase. What they should have done though was given you a suitable replacement for what was clearly a flawed bottle of wine.

You may wish to drop the winery a note as well.

In California it's legal to accept the return of and refund flawed bottles, but not to accept the return of unopened bottles. So I was well within my rights.

Bad customer service. When I was schlepping wine, if the customer said it was flawed, it was flawed, and we did our best to remedy the situation. Didn't matter what anyone else said.
Perhaps Wade needs to sign himself and his staff up for "Redwinger's School of Exceptional Customer Service by Empowering Employees to Make Decisions"

I have only gotten push back on a return one time. On that occasion two-thirds of a bottle was drained as a result of four glasses being poured before I realize the wine was horribly corked. The clerk asked why so much wine had been consumed. I explained the situation, and had him take a hearty sniff of the remains. As soon as he had finished wretching he replaced the bottle.

[Jenise]

Perhaps Wade needs to sign himself and his staff up for "Redwinger's School of Exceptional Customer Service by Empowering Employees to Make Decisions"

That's clearly the case! I have now talked to one 'William' there. I learned that: 1) the guy who id'd himself as the assistant manager does not in fact hold that position and in fact no manager was on the premesis. And 2) that the "policy change" occurred because someone in the store took back an unopened bottle a customer didn't like while an Alcohol Control Board spy was on the premesis, which resulted in a heavy fine. All I could offer was that unfortunate as that was it's actually no excuse for a legitimate customer with a legitimate and legally complying complaint not receiving appropriate service and there not being an employee with a) the experience to know the difference and b) the power to make it right. I hope there will now be a new policy about the new policy.

david's rule of corporate behavior: every person treats those below them the same way the person above them treats them. its all about the person at the top. if they treat people badly, everyone below them will treat those further below as badly or worse. you were at the bottom of this chain. jenise is probably correct that the new rule was an over-reaction to someone taking back the wrong thing. but no one, i'll bet, dares 'inform' Wade or dare hint that maybe the rule might cause problems - not to mention cost business. Wade probably has plenty of business and can afford to indulge his temper. you got a bad deal; but think about the poor employees.

I have only gotten push back on a return one time. On that occasion two-thirds of a bottle was drained as a result of four glasses being poured before I realize the wine was horribly corked. The clerk asked why so much wine had been consumed. I explained the situation, and had him take a hearty sniff of the remains. As soon as he had finished wretching he replaced the bottle.

I never take wine back usually because the stores are too far away, the wine not that expensive, and often it has been months if not years since I bought it. The one time was when we picked up a Bollinger RD from a local restaurant and took it home. As soon as we pop and poured it was obviously a flawed bottle. Called them up immediately and told them the story and drove it right back. The owner and manager were both out that day so three different staff all tried the wine and were in agreement it was flawed. Gave us a NV Bollinger and told us that as soon as the manager returned the difference would be credited back which it was. The only problem was that someone that worked there let it slip to us that when the owner and manager tasted the bottle two days later they deemed it was not flawed. I don't need someone else to confirm a flawed bottle for me but in this case I have my wife and three employees. We confronted the manager about the bottle the next time we were in and he defends his opinion that the bottle was not flawed and we just have no experience with aged Champagnes but then proceeds to add we credited you for the bottle so what's the problem?

I have only gotten push back on a return one time. On that occasion two-thirds of a bottle was drained as a result of four glasses being poured before I realize the wine was horribly corked. The clerk asked why so much wine had been consumed. I explained the situation, and had him take a hearty sniff of the remains. As soon as he had finished wretching he replaced the bottle.

I never take wine back usually because the stores are too far away, the wine not that expensive, and often it has been months if not years since I bought it. The one time was when we picked up a Bollinger RD from a local restaurant and took it home. As soon as we pop and poured it was obviously a flawed bottle. Called them up immediately and told them the story and drove it right back. The owner and manager were both out that day so three different staff all tried the wine and were in agreement it was flawed. Gave us a NV Bollinger and told us that as soon as the manager returned the difference would be credited back which it was. The only problem was that someone that worked there let it slip to us that when the owner and manager tasted the bottle two days later they deemed it was not flawed. I don't need someone else to confirm a flawed bottle for me but in this case I have my wife and three employees. We confronted the manager about the bottle the next time we were in and he defends his opinion that the bottle was not flawed and we just have no experience with aged Champagnes but then proceeds to add we credited you for the bottle so what's the problem?

OK, why would you want to taste a wine that a customer returned..very potentially, eeewww. Again, customer says it is flawed, then it is. Case closed and move on. We never experienced a customer who abused this policy. Maybe trust builds trust or some sort of trite nonsense like that.

OK, why would you want to taste a wine that a customer returned..very potentially, eeewww. Again, customer says it is flawed, then it is. Case closed and move on. We never experienced a customer who abused this policy. Maybe trust builds trust or some sort of trite nonsense like that.

Because if the customer is wrong, then there can be an unexpected upside. (Not to mention that if a bottle is genuinely heat damaged, corked or has some other major flaw, it's always useful for people in the store to know the flaw and be able to recognize it, if we're talking about stores with less experienced employees.)

Does remind me though of an unexpected surprise when picking up some wines from a store in NY. Somebody had earlier just returned a bottle of 1988 Arnoux Clos Vougeot he deemed flawed with about 80% of the wine still in the bottle (matter sorted, customer had left) - one of the staff had the bottle around, decided to check it out while I was around and then realized there was nothing wrong with it. I was offered a glass, didn't turn it down - and it was a really fantastic wine. (Have no idea what the customer thought was wrong - perhaps the fact that there was zero fruit, but his loss!)

david's rule of corporate behavior: every person treats those below them the same way the person above them treats them. its all about the person at the top. if they treat people badly, everyone below them will treat those further below as badly or worse. you were at the bottom of this chain.

Sad and annoying when you come into contact with organisations where people see the customer as the bottom link in a chain of bad treatment and poor behaviour.

Makes me think of Basil Fawlty's response to complaining customers:
"This is typical. Absolutely typical... of the kind of... ARSE I have to put up with from you people! You ponce in here, expecting to be waited on hand and foot while I'm trying to run a hotel here!"

Makes me think of Basil Fawlty's response to complaining customers:
"This is typical. Absolutely typical... of the kind of... ARSE I have to put up with from you people! You ponce in here, expecting to be handwaited on hand and foot while I'm trying to run a hotel here! Have you any idea of how much there is to do? Do you ever think of that? Of course not! You're all too busy sticking your noses into every corner, poking around for things to complain about, aren't you?"

Thanks for that, needed a laugh. (Now I feel the urge to find my DVD set and put the Germans episode on. Don't mention the war! )

I'm reminded of the old saw from the restaurant biz: bad service will kill your restaurant quicker than bad food.

Yes, exactly.

One caveat - For "cut-out bin" wines it's "buyer beware". I've had a number of cut-out stinkers, but would never take them back. Though I do call the store and tell them that they may want to toss any remaining bottles of the same wine.

(Have no idea what the customer thought was wrong - perhaps the fact that there was zero fruit, but his loss!)

Well speaking only for myself, I would not rate a wine with 'zero fruit' particularly highly.......

Because if the customer is wrong, then there can be an unexpected upside. (Not to mention that if a bottle is genuinely heat damaged, corked or has some other major flaw, it's always useful for people in the store to know the flaw and be able to recognize it, if we're talking about stores with less experienced employees.)

Salil-
Not sure I'm completely following your thought process here, but we tasted wines we opened everyday in that shop and we had plenty of flawed bottles around for "educational" purposes, without having to taste a bottle that was outside of our control.

Jenise wrote;
"New policy," said the short man who was missing literally every other tooth, "we don't accept returns." WHAT? "Well, only Mr. Wade himself can now decide whether he's going to accept a return or not, and he's not in."

Mr. Wade actually exists?

Salute

ummmm - jenise - ummm - regarding that change of title on the post. did you happen to get threatened?

I noticed the original text of the post was altered, as well. Oddly none of the changes triggered an "edited" footnote!

[David M. Bueker]

FYI - if an individual edits their own post the footnote does not necessarily appear.

FYI - if an individual edits their own post the footnote does not necessarily appear.

Hmmm... I just went back and edited my own reply and the footnote did indeed automatically appear.

What strange laws some of you guys have to live with. If I bought 6 bottles of wine from my local wine shop, or even the supermarket probably, drank one, then took the other 5 unopened bottles back to the shop and said "I really don't like this wine", then the shop's owner or assistant would instantly refund or replace them, probably even if they were from the sell-off table. If I say a wine is corked, it is corked, as the manager can not smell corked wines and he admits this. It is my job at the Wine Options competition that he runs to taste all of the competition wines and reject any bad ones, so he knows my nose and palate are good for most corkiness. But it would be the same for any customer at all.

FYI - if an individual edits their own post the footnote does not necessarily appear.

Hmmm... I just went back and edited my own reply and the footnote did indeed automatically appear.

The edit note will appear if the edit occurs after someone else has posted to the thread. If no one has posted after the editee, the edit note does note appear.

And, why would anyone else have the ability to edit a post besides the author? I've gone on record previously, that only the author should be able to edit a post. If the Admin or Mods find a post objectionable, then their only recourse should be to delete or lock the post. But that is just me.