Castle Rock Willamette valley pinot noir

I have probably had a six-pack (maybe more) of the 2007 Mendocino County pinot, and didn't know they made a Willamette pinot until just a few days ago. The Oregon version sells locally here for $13 which is about the same as the Mendocino version, and I'll get around to trying it. But, in the meantime I wondered if anyone of you already have sipped it. Of course Castle Rock, "ain't no" Stone Wolf, or Lindsay pinot, but it might go well with something like roast chicken from the grill. (Chef might say, "But Bob, so would the Stone Wolf"!)

OK, so far there have been 13 views of the post, and so far not a "not me" in the bunch?

[David M. Bueker]

Wel...not me, but I didn't see the reason to opst that i had not had it & had no info. At least I had a second hand note on the CdR.

Wel...not me, but I didn't see the reason to opst that i had not had it & had no info. At least I had a second hand note on the CdR.

I have consumed four different pinot noir bottlings from Castle Rock: Mendocino County, Monterey County, Sonoma Coast, and Willamette Valley. I thought every one of them was a very good QPR and would not hesitate to buy again. Alas, I haven't seen their product on the shelves here in a while.

Hi Bob. I attended a wine show two weeks ago in Harford County Maryland sponsered by a local wine store. LVDH distributors had a table highlighting 6 Castle Rock Pinots ( I didn't know they had 6!). The 2008 Mendocino, Carneros, Sonoma, Willamette and California Cuvee and the 2007 Russian River Valley. All were well made but the 08 Willamette and the 07 Russian River Valley stood out as my favorites in my notes at the event. They were offering the Willamette at $11.99 and the RRV at $15.99.

Drew

I have consumed four different pinot noir bottlings from Castle Rock: Mendocino County, Monterey County, Sonoma Coast, and Willamette Valley. I thought every one of them was a very good QPR and would not hesitate to buy again. Alas, I haven't seen their product on the shelves here in a while.

Hi Mike,

I didn't look for the CR PN at the Party Source yesterday, but they are everywhere down here in Lexington. I didn't know that CR made so many pinots either. There are at least 8 California bottlings (2008 Central Coast, 2008 Sonoma County, 2008 Napa County, 2008 Russian River Valley "Reserve", and a brand new one, 2008 Castle Rock Carneros, plus there are, the 2008 Castle Rock Mendocino County, and the 2008 Castle Rock Monterey County plus a 2008 Castle Rock California Cuvee) Then there is at least one Oregon and one Washington State bottles. (2008 Castle Rock Willamette Valley, 2008 Castle Rock Columbia Valley). Castle Rock might make a good subject for a taste off sometimes.

As long as I am on the subject of inexpensive pinot, I opened a bottle of Carmenet California Reserve (?) pinot that I had picked up for only $7.99 and believe it or not, it was a decent wine for the price. Can anyone say surplus grapes?

Hi Bob. I attended a wine show two weeks ago in Harford County Maryland sponsered by a local wine store. LVDH distributors had a table highlighting 6 Castle Rock Pinots ( I didn't know they had 6!). The 2008 Mendocino, Carneros, Sonoma, Willamette and California Cuvee and the 2007 Russian River Valley. All were well made but the 08 Willamette and the 07 Russian River Valley stood out as my favorites in my notes at the event. They were offering the Willamette at $11.99 and the RRV at $15.99.

Drew

Thanks for the feedback Drew. I have not tried either of the Willamette, or the RRV either, plus there is a Carnerous which I would expect to be decent too. I have had the Mendocino 2007, and it was very correct, but of course nothing to brag on. Still pinot at $10-12 that smells and tastes like pinot might be some kind of bragging rights.

IIRC, some/all the Castle Rock Pinots have a solid dose of Syrah in them...not that there is anything wrong with that.
BP

All of which leads us to the question: does Castle Rock 'make" these Pinot Noirs, or does it source them from places where they are already made and simply slap labels on them?

There are, as I see it, three alternatives here:

1. Buy the juice and make the wine yourself.
2. Buy the wine at a young stage and "bring it up" in your own facility.
3. Buy the wine from someone else and slap your label on it.

I honestly don't know what Castle Rock does. Also haven't tasted them enough to know if they assiduously maintain the (at least regional) terroir of their different offerings.

Interesting, though, that Castle Rock has chosen to work on the "we sell Pinot Noir" paradigm. Place isn't as significant as the variety on the label.

[David M. Bueker]

Interesting, though, that Castle Rock has chosen to work on the "we sell Pinot Noir" paradigm. Place isn't as significant as the variety on the label.

I think it makes perfect sense, as their target audience is not people like us (though they can make wines that are quite good at times). The vast majority of wine drinkers have no interest in a sense of place, just a drink that tastes the way they want it to taste.

Oh, I agree with that, David. Although you should be careful about the "people like us" designation, since the people like us on this board covers a wide range of wine drinkers. Some of which are simply looking for a well-made wine that delivers what it promises within a modest price point. And there, I'd say, is where Castle Rock does a great job.

And yes, primarily, Castle Rock is going to be popular for those people who walk into a btg place and say, "Do you have a Pinot Noir? I'll have that."

I'm happy that Pinot Noir has finally reached the status of a "brand" sufficient to the point where it is more readily available in the general market. I'm also expectant that such spread of PN will inevitably benefit the great majority of wine drinkers by supporting PN coming from new places...thus benefiting both that casual drinker and the informed drinker. (Notwithstanding there will be a lot of dreck produced along the way, but that's always the case.)

It's interesting to me that, even here in this place of highly informed drinkers, the basic truths of the wine business are not looked at very closely. Thus my question: does Castle Rock "make" the wine they market, or do they largely buy wine from someone else and market it under their brand name? And does that (and should it) make any difference?

Mind you, there's always going to be three tiers to this, as I said before. 1) We grow it; we make it. 2. We don't grow it, but we make it. 3. We neither grow it nor do we make it; we buy it and label it.

Of course, one winery/brand is capable of doing all three. And that's pretty common practice too. I would even say standard, especially for the big players.

In my original post, though, I was simply trying to determine whether Castle Rock was making it all themselves, or not. To me, there's a difference between "Castle Rock makes..." and "Castle Rock sells..." It would be similar to the French Domain, Necogicant Eleveur, and Negociant distinctions.

Just to expand on what Hoke posted, I always thought of Castle Rock as “virtual winery” or “wine brokers” If you check out their website, they are not really a large outfit, they do not employ a large staff, or own elaborate facilities or real estate.

Salute

According to the PinotFile website:

"Castle Rock Winery has no vineyards and no winery and only has six employees. This American negociant buys bulk wine and has a number of long-term grape contracts. The winemaking is outsourced to multiple wineries ... " (http://www.princeofpinot.com/winery/693/)

.......
Interesting, though, that Castle Rock has chosen to work on the "we sell Pinot Noir" paradigm. Place isn't as significant as the variety on the label.

At some point in time, I had a 2003 CR Chardonnay. My notes are not complimentary: "biting, acidic, out of balance, fruit overwhelmed by acidity..."

.......
Interesting, though, that Castle Rock has chosen to work on the "we sell Pinot Noir" paradigm. Place isn't as significant as the variety on the label.

At some point in time, I had a 2003 CR Chardonnay. My notes are not complimentary: "biting, acidic, out of balance, fruit overwhelmed by acidity..."

That's unusual in a Chardonnay---would signify to me that some bulk was purchased that ended up showing some problems somewhere and extreme acidifcation was required to make it sellable, Mike. Just a guess though. A WAG.

Chiming back in here, to make it clear that I'm not dissing anyone's business model.

I have no beef with Castle Rock, or the way they choose to do business. Lord knows, the role of the negociant in the wine biz is not unusual...it's pretty much par for the course, and for a long time any wine marketed outside a particular domain or village was of necessity necociant wine, certainly in the Old World.

Many of what we think of as necessities of wine today were considered unusual and unexpected niceties not too long ago.

Indeed, to make my point, I have some very good friends who run a literal two--person winery in California along this model. They have, at times encompassed all three styles. They have bottled (and stil do) some quite lovely and distinctive estate wine. They have also purchased various lots of wines from other producers, some as is, some to be finished in their facilities, destined to be blended in multiple-variety blends---this is the bulk of what they sale, and they've made some damned good wines that way, artfully blending both for complexity and to establish a clear and specific style distinctive to what they like (which is a wine with more old world characterstics). They have also, on occasion, taken wines already finished and marketed them under their label with minimal intervention---as long as they felt the wine in question matched up with their philosophy and style.

So a winery can choose to be one or two or all three. And I've no problem with that. None at all.

But I'd say the Edmunds St. John paradigm is likely different than the Castle Rock paradigm.