Corks & Alcohol

Everybody "knows" that alcohol attacks corks and there are suggestions that Ports & Madeiras should be stored standing upright so not to be attacked by the higher alcohol in these wines.
I've asked a couple of winemakers and have searched the InterNet and my oenology texts and can find no evidence to support this assertion. I've not been successful in finding any studies or evidence that alcohol damages cork.
Can anybody steer me in the right direction so that I can confirm what we "know" is true?? Surely, like "knowing" that breathing of wine softens the tannins and "knowing" that if the capsule don't spin...yadda yadda yadda... it must be true.
Tom

Tom
It might be worth speaking to Whisky enthusiasts as many are T-cork sealed and some old bottlings are kept for many years. Let's see what answers come back, but if we're struggling I'll cross-post this on wine-pages whisky forum.

As an aside, an ITB friend tipped me off a while ago to the joys of aged liquers (albeit NEVER cream based ones!). They often soften and the sugar/alcohol presumably helps preserve them. Benedictine is his favourite example, but we did have an absolutely stunning bottle of Thibarine (a North African date liquer) whose shortish cork was riddled with holes. The liquer was really impressive, despite the 'swiss cheese' cork.

regards

Ian

I know you love your strawmen, but can you point out who this Everybody is? I've generally always seen Port on its side, and that's how I store it. I've heard some suggest Madeira is best upright, but thought that was due to sediment issues. I don't think I've ever read a statement that the higher alcohol in Madeira is the reason, but I don't know everyone. I don't own any Madeira, but the person I know who has the most stores on side. But if you say everyone knows....

while we're at it..
Similarly, I don't know anyone (much less everyone) who thinks that spinning capsules are in and off themselves of significant importance. Some capsules spin at release, some don't. That being said. sometimes a wine sees heat, seeps a little, and the capsule sticks. So for instance if I am looking at older wine, and the capsule spins, I might think of it as a very minor positive datapoint. Without knowing if the capsules spun originally, I wouldn't generally regard not spinning as a real danger sign. However, I once was in an unfamiliar store where they had some 96 Bordeaux and Spanish wines for a good price. I noticed that none of the capsules spun. I started walking around the store, and virtually none of the capsules spun (I was basically looking at anything that wasn't current release). Eventually I spotted a couple of bottles with visible seepage. I didn't buy anything. When I got home I checked some of the same wines, and most had spinning capsules. So while an individual stuck capsule might not mean something, a lot of them might IMHO. Maybe I missed out on a deal, but I'm happy with the pass.

I know you love your strawmen, but can you point out who this Everybody is? I've generally always seen Port on its side, and that's how I store it. I've heard some suggest Madeira is best upright, but thought that was due to sediment issues. I don't think I've ever read a statement that the higher alcohol in Madeira is the reason, but I don't know everyone. I don't own any Madeira, but the person I know who has the most stores on side. But if you say everyone knows....

while we're at it..
Similarly, I don't know anyone (much less everyone) who thinks that spinning capsules are in and off themselves of significant importance. Some capsules spin at release, some don't. That being said. sometimes a wine sees heat, seeps a little, and the capsule sticks. So for instance if I am looking at older wine, and the capsule spins, I might think of it as a very minor positive datapoint. Without knowing if the capsules spun originally, I wouldn't generally regard not spinning as a real danger sign. However, I once was in an unfamiliar store where they had some 96 Bordeaux and Spanish wines for a good price. I noticed that none of the capsules spun. I started walking around the store, and virtually none of the capsules spun (I was basically looking at anything that wasn't current release). Eventually I spotted a couple of bottles with visible seepage. I didn't buy anything. When I got home I checked some of the same wines, and most had spinning capsules. So while an individual stuck capsule might not mean something, a lot of them might IMHO. Maybe I missed out on a deal, but I'm happy with the pass.

Awwwwwww, Dale...surely you know me well enough by now.....

Every so often I'll read some wine factoid that "everyone" knows and I'll ask myself..."Is that really true??". You will see some people claim that a capsule that
doesn't spin is evidence that the wine has been overheated, leaked around the cork, and is damaged. Most people w/ any kind of common sense would
dismiss that as something that we "know".

There was was a thread on eBob last week about the necessity of storing Tokaji upright (despite the lower alcohol) because the higher RS in the wine
allowed the wine to more easily leak thru/around the cork. My immediate reaction was "Huh??". They went on to point out that Madeira was supposed
to be stored upright because its high alcohol attacks the cork. That led to my inquiry above after I checked w/ a few winemakers.

Just stirring the pot abit, Dale.......don't get sucked in!!!
Tom

I've heard some suggest Madeira is best upright, but thought that was due to sediment issues.

I was told (Blandy's tasting room) it was because it wasn't necessary, and keeping the bottle vertical helps prevent cork taint.

Personally I am not sure about any of these reasons - nor the high alcohol one. I think they are all post hoc rationalisations for common practice.

Tom,
The cell wall structure of cork is far more sensitive to acid than it is to ethanol. It is for that reason, I'd presume, that prolonged contact with wine causes eventual cork failure. Ethanol might help solubilize the fragments produced through cell wall hydrolysis, but that would be of minor importance, I'd think.

Mark Lipton

It’s not like we’re steeping the corks in the wine. Hopefully only a small surface area of the cork is only making contact.

Salute

It’s not like we’re steeping the corks in the wine. Hopefully only a small surface area of the cork is only making contact.

That's why it presumably takes so long for corks to fail. At first, the damage is limited to the small area of contact, but after failure begins wine can enter more of the cork, leading to more extensive failure, etc.

Mark Lipton