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WTN: Some Old Zins...(long/boring)

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TomHill

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WTN: Some Old Zins...(long/boring)

by TomHill » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:05 pm

We tasted last night (12/30/09) Dave & Larry's Old Zins + Tom's Young Zins:
__________________________________UnReleased Jaffurs
1. Jaffurs Mourvedre ThompsonVnyd/SBC (13.5%) 2008: Med.color; strong plummy/black cherry/Mourv very spicy/
perfumed some strawberry nose; very tart spicy/plummy/strawberry perfumed light toasty/oak somewhat
lean/tannic/hard flavor; long some plummy/strawberry very spicy/perfumed somewhat tannic/hard finish;
needs 3-6 yrs yet; lovely aromatics and tannic/structured on the palate. $34.00
___________________________
2. Jaffurs Syrah LarnerVnyd/SBC (15.5%) 2008: Very dark color; beautiful very spicy/Syrah/blackberry
rather peppery light toasty/oak garrigue/spicy nose; tart very rich/lush strong blackberry/Syrah
very spicy/peppery light toasty/oak flavor; very long somewhat tannic/structured ripe/blackberry/
Syrah quite peppery/spicy finish; lots of Syrah fruit w/ a nice peppery/spicy character and strong
tannins; needs 2-6 yrs; maybe best Jaffurs Larner yet. $42.00
__________________________________ Dave & Larry's Zins
3. Parducci Calif Zin UkiahVlly (U/U; 12 1/2%) 1969: Med.light color w/ fair bricking; slight musty
clears to pencilly/cedary/old Zin slight raspberry/beet root nose; rather pencilly/cedary/old Zin/
tobaccoy not dried out flavor; med.long smooth cedary/pencilly/tobaccoy/old Zin finish; no signs of
drying out & astringency; just a tired/gentle old lady of a wine in the far twilight of her yrs.
___________________________
4. J.Pedroncelli SonomaCnty Zin (EB; 12%) 1970: Med.color w/ some bricking; tired out old Zin slight
pencilly/cedary some complex nose; slight musty tired old Zin bit dried out/astringent flavor; med.short
tired/dried out slight musty finish; nose develops a slight raspberry character in its last gasp at
life before going south; just a tired/faded/wizened old Zin w/ little to like.
___________________________
5a. Kenwood SonomaVlly Zin (12.5%) 1971: Light color w/ some bricking; earthy slight musty/leathery slight
menthol rather tired/old Zin nose; soft rather metallic/dried out/somewhat astringent weak/tired/old
Zin flavor; short weak some musty/metallic tired/astringent old Zin finish; pretty much dead & gone.
___________________________
5. Kenwood SonomaVlly Zin (12%; WeiseVnyd; SaH: 22.5 Brix; 1275 cs) 1972 (en magnum): Light color w/ some
bricking; pleasant enough cedary/pencilly/tobaccoy/old Zin bit horsecollar/brett somewhat complex/
interesting nose; soft pencilly/cedary bit tired/dried out rather barnyardy/bretty/horsecollar flavor;
med.short light cedary/pencilly/old Zin some tired/dried out rather bretty/barnyardy finish; the brett
is pretty obvious, but manages to give the wine some interest.
___________________________
6. Sebastiani Sonoma Zin (Unique "Bramble" Flavor; 12 1/2%) 197?? 1970(?) Bttl code:73 : Light color w/ some
bricking; some cedary/pencilly slight burnt/charred rather tired/old Zin nose; soft rather astringent/
tired/dried out light cedary/pencilly slight minty flavor; quite tannic/astringent/dried out light
cedary/pencilly finish; somewhat interesting nose but pretty shot on the palate.
___________________________
7. Inglenook NapaVlly Zin (EB; 12%) 1970: Light rather brown color; strong wet dog fur/wet Army blanket
decaying vegetation nose; dreadful sour/bitter wet Army blanket/wet dog fur flavor; same finish; like
a soaking wet Army blanket that had been stuffed in a plastic trash bag and left there several months;
totally shot; the only wine of the lot that was totally undrinkable.
___________________________
8. Louis M. Martini Calif Mtn Zin (12 1/2%; Napa/Sonoma counties) 1970: Med.light color w/ some bricking;
slight raspberry/old Zin cedary/pencilly pungent/metallic slight coffee nose; soft tired/dried out no fruit
bit raspberry some astringent/dried out flavor; med.short tired/dried out/old Zin slight pungent/coffee
somewhat astringent finish; expected more from this, but didn't get it.
___________________________
9. Mirassou Monterey/SantaClara Zin (12%) 1968: Light color w/ lots of bricking; strong coffee/roasted/
pungent/smokey almost Rhonish no fruit rather complex/interesting nose; tart strong coffee/pungent/
burnt/charred/smokey no fruit somewhat smooth not dried out flavor; long strong roasted/coffee/charred
pungent fairly smooth finish; virtually no fruit but rather interesting pungent/coffee character;
on its last legs but at least somewhat drinkable.
___________________________
10. FetzerVnyds Zin Mendocino Ricetti (12%; SaH: 22% Brix) 1973: Light color w/ slight bricking; strong
vanilla/Am.oak light raspberry/Zin complex some spicy/menthol nose; soft some spicy/menthol some
Am.oak/vanilla slight raspberry/Zin smooth complex flavor; med.long smooth/gentle slight peppermint/
raspberry/old Zin some vanilla/Am.oak bit tired/old Zin finish; interesting nose and hanging onto life by
its fingernails; the best of this SB cellar's lot. $4.50
___________________________
11. SutterHome Zin (DeaverVnyd/AmadorCnty; 13%) 1972: Med.color w/ slight bricking; some cedary/pencilly
slight blackberry/earthy bit tired/old Zin nose; soft/smooth pleasant bit licorice/briary some cedary/
pencilly/old Zin slight tobaccoy flavor; med.short soft/smooth light tobaccoy/cedary weak/blackberry
finish; also clinging to life, but just barely. Dave thinks the wine has a bit of RS but I couldn't
get it. $3.75/750 ml
___________________________
12. SutterHome Zin (DeaverVnyd/AmadorCnty; 13%) 1972 (1.5 l): Med.color w/ some bricking; bit ozone/WWII
beacon/volatile somewhat chemical/fresh varnish slight smokey definitely off nose; soft/smooth
flavor & finish much like the 750; OK on the palate but the volatile/paint varnish nose was pretty
off-putting; some thought it showed TCA, but I couldn't pick that up.
______________________________Tom's Zins
13. StorybookMtnVnyds NapaVlly Zin (EG; 13.5%) 1981: Med.light color w/ slight bricking; light spicy/
raspberry/Zin some cedary/pencilly fairly complex attractive nose; very tart/acid/lean bit thin/
eviscerated very astringent/bitter slight raspberry flavor; med.short tart/acid/lean rather bitter/
astringent slight raspberry finish; pretty dead & gone on the palate but at least has some fruit on the
nose.
___________________
14. Ravenswood Zin VogensenVnyd/SonomaCnty (14.2%; TA: 0.65 g/100ml; Bttld: Oct 22/1983;
13,160 btls) 1981: Very light some bricking color; strong wet dog fur/wet Army blanket oxidized rired
old wine nose; strong bitter/astringent wet Army blanket oxidized flavor; same dreadful finish;
totally dead & gone. $8.49
___________________________
15. JosephSwanVnyds Sonoma Zin (TW; TeldeschiVnyd) 1974: Med.dark somewhat murky/cloudy color w/ little
bricking; some spicy/blackberry/Zin bit alcoholic slight licorice/pungent/oak complex interesting
nose that still has some fruit; somewhat alcoholic/late harvesty some blackberry/Zin bit overripe
cedary/charred/oak/toasty bit late harvesty slight dried out/tannic flavor; med.long slight blackberry/
Zin somewhat charred/oak/pungent/licorice bit alcoholic/late harvesty slight tannic/astringent/
dried out finish; most fruit of any and actually pretty drinkable, but on its last legs.
___________________________
16. Mayacamas Zin LateHrvst (BaldinelliVnyd/AmadorCnty; 16%) 1974: Med.light color w/ little bricking; rather
ripe/blackberry/Zin slight briary/Amador bit hot/alcoholic light charred/oak complex attractive nose;
smooth fairly rich/lush bit briary/blackberry/Zin soft bit charred/pencilly/oak some hot/alcoholic
flavor; soft/smooth off-dry spicy/briary/blackberry/Zin some hot/alcoholic finish w/ light tannins;
bit alcoholic/latte harvesty but still holding on; attractive and pleasant.
_________________________________________________________________________________
And the usual BloodyPulpit:
1. DaveYates & LarryArchibald jointly bought a wine cellar out in SantaBarbara recently. Knowing
my predeliction to unload...errrrr....share old/decrepit Zins w/ my tasting group; they oferred
to do a tasting w/ us of some of the old Zins from this cellar whilst Dave was in town. Seizing
the opportunity for someone else to take the heat over old Zins, I eagerly accepted. We started
off w/ two unreleased Jaffurs to set the theme, and then finished w/ the last 4 old Zins from my
archive designed to salvage the tasting. They did not.
The SantaBarbara cellar was of good provenance. A passive cellar whose temps apparently ranged
in the upper 50's to low 60's over a year. The fills in nearly all cases were good. They capsules
were all clean and prestine, though they did not spin, so there must have been some leakage. In
most cases, the corks were solid and came out cleanly. Only in the two magnums did the corks tend
to crumble. Dave posits that they may have been stored upright sometime in the lives for a period.
Sediment was remarkably light for wines of this age. That's consistent w/ winemaking techniques
common of that era...age for 2-3 yrs to senility in redwood vats or large/oak upright ovals (where
much of the sediment would have fallen), sterile filter, sometimes pasteurize (as LouisMartini used
to commonly do) so has to guarantee a long shelf life standing upright on some Mom&Pop's grocery
store in Modesto or Bakersfield.
___________________________
2. JaffursMoruvedre: They blended in a brl of Thompson Grenache into this wine. It seems to really
give the wine a perfumed/aromatic lift, almost dominating the Mourv character. Mourvedre is the
last variety usually to ripen on Thompson, and this was harvested in mid-Nov. The leaves were dropping &
turning brown and it was clear there was no more ripening to be had...hence the rather anemic
alcohol level. To me, Mourv often has a ripe/plummy rather soft character. This Jaffurs version
has more tannins and structure than I normally find in Calif Mourv. It needs age to develop.
___________________________
3. Nearly all these wines were tired old shells of their former glory (?). None gave even a shred of
sensual pleasure; there was little to enjoy in these wines. That said, it was indeed a pleasure to
have the opportunity to taste these wines. They did not appeal on a sensual level, but like many
tastings of old wines, they appealed on an intellectual level. Nearly all of these wines I tasted
back around their release (Larry & Dave's Zins), and they were pleasant enough but nothing remarkable.
Yet it brought back some fond memories of tasting in my early days....well before I found out that
Zins were supposed to have gobs of hedonistic fruit, alcohols above 15%, a $hitload of new French oak;
huge tannins and extractions to be great Zins. These wines were just wines you knocked back w/
a PizzaHut pizza or a burrito, and didn't give them nary a thought. Now wine's purpose at table
is to pontificate over and dazzle our guests w/ our ability to obtain them. My...how times have changed.
___________________________
4. SutterHome: This tasting provided the rare opportunity to taste the same wine from a 750...well...
a 4/5'th quart, and a magnum. The folklore says wine en magnum age better than a std btl. In this case,
the magnum was decidely inferior. Looks like another wine myth bites the dust.
It's hard to believe from today's wines that SutterHome actually used to make some great Zins. They
were, of course, the first to make great commercial Amador Zin, from the DeaverVnyd, at DarrellCorti's
suggestion. If you Google satellite-image the DeaverVnyd, you can see that old block of Zin, just North
of the old farmstead house, that I once walked w/ KenDeaver Sr. way back when. If you scroll a bit
to the south, right there at the crook in ShenandoahSchoolRd, you can see the pigpen that Ken Sr.
used to feed grapes to his pigs...some of the most reknowned porkers in all Calif. If you zoom in, you can
actually see these porkers awaiting their fate of being turned into 'Nduja. Google-satellite is
amazing.
___________________________
5. Last Wed's (afore Christmas) NYTimes had an interesting article on 'Nduja. I thought at the time that
this is something I'd like to try, given my love of salami ad pig parts. Low and behold, two day's later,
Susan gifted me a box of pig parts from Boccolone in Oakland...including two 'Nduja.
'Nudja is a unique Calabrian spreadable salami. They take the leftover pig parts (like the brain,
stomach, kidney/liver, heart, eyeballs, etc and flavor them (heavily-handed) with Calabrian hot peppers
and make a salami. Since these parts have little connective tissue, the salami is spreadable, like a
paste. Though this is a pretty trendy salami in some circles, can't say as I want to revisit 'Nudja.
With the hot peppers, it's hot/spicy enough to take your head off. I made a more interesting spread
by taking a Fra'Mani piccante salami, putting it thru a Cuisinart, adding some olive oil and extra
Piminton (smoked Spanish paprika). Still not as good as a Knight's finocchoino salami or an OscarMayer
weenier.
___________________________
6. This tasting was conducted in my usual format...pop the cork and pour around the room in pairs. For
these kind of old wines, this is hardly the format to do the wines justice. It would've been better
to open only a few btls at a time and sit down and follow their evolution over several hrs time. That
was not a practical option for my group, alas. The folklore is that old wines need time to breathe and
evolve and that usually they turn into something magnificant. Several people brought multiple glasses
and watch the wines evolve over 30 minutes time. This mariculous transformation didn't seem to be
transpiring, given their comments. When I went back annd retasted thru all the wines after the tasting,
all of them seemed pretty shot/dead&gone. Another myth destroyed.
___________________________
7. Expectations: Of Dave&Larry's Zin, I was expecting a few surprises of ones that had held up better than
expected. Only the Inglenook was certifiably unpleasant. The rest were just pretty tired and on thier
last legs and didn't offer much pleasure beyond an intellectual one. I was expecting the Martini to be
the best of that lot because of the legendary Martini longevity. It was not. Because of BarneyFetzer's
heavy-handed use of oak on those early Zins ('71 or '72 was his first), I was expecting it to be totally
shot. It was not. I expected more of the SutterHome's, but they were pretty much gone.
Of my Zins, because of the balance JoeSwan's Zins usually displayed, I thought it would be pretty good.
It pretty much delivered. I expected Joel's Ravenswood to be very good. Totally dead & gone. I had the
least hope for the Mayacamas and expected it to be a mess of stewed/pruney/raisened/overripe/late
harvest, rather sweet, fruit. It well exceeded expectations.
Tom
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John Treder

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Re: WTN: Some Old Zins...(long/boring)

by John Treder » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:13 pm

What interested me most were the prices, where noted. Just as I remember from when I first had some spare cash in the early 70s. Of course, that's why I'm now fixated on the idea that you really ought to find plenty of good drinkable wine for under $10 and really great ageable stuff for $20.
I'll probably die with that belief.

John
John in the wine county
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TomHill

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Nope...

by TomHill » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:21 pm

John - Santa Clara wrote:...Of course, that's why I'm now fixated on the idea that you really ought to find plenty of good drinkable wine for under $10 and really great ageable stuff for $20.
I'll probably die with that belief.
John


John,
Finding good/drinkable wine under $10, one that provides some interest; that's a bit of a challenge. But a sub-$20 ageable wine is quite a bit easier. Many of
the EdStJohn wines, both whitte & red, can fill that bill.
LeonAdams always used to maintain that good/drinkable wine should be cheaper than milk. Not sure that's gonna happen.
Tom
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Mark Willstatter

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Re: WTN: Some Old Zins...(long/boring)

by Mark Willstatter » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:19 pm

John - Santa Clara wrote:What interested me most were the prices, where noted. Just as I remember from when I first had some spare cash in the early 70s. Of course, that's why I'm now fixated on the idea that you really ought to find plenty of good drinkable wine for under $10 and really great ageable stuff for $20.

John


I think it's also worth pointing out that in real terms (with inflation factored in), that $4 bottle of wine in 1973 cost the same as a $20 bottle in 2009. You're talking about a time when an new economy car could be purchased for less than $3K. I suppose the fact it's now possible to find (as Tom says, "good/drinkable wine...that provides some interest") for $10 ($2 in 1973 dollars) has to count as progress; I doubt you could have found much meeting that description in 1973!
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Re: WTN: Some Old Zins...(long/boring)

by John Treder » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:04 pm

<VBG> When you're an old geezer, you find you have lots of fixations - "Why is that kid driving - he isn't old enough to be out of diapers yet!" - "When I was a kid, blah blah blah...." - "I used to pay $5.98 for a pair of Levi's. It oughta be the same now!" - "I used to pay $4.95 for a pretty good bottle of wine. It oughta be the same now!"

Actually, the average purchase price in my cellar today is $25.51 for reds and $15.30 for whites.
I shall continue to reserve the right to piss, moan and whine about the outrageous prices of wine! :twisted:

John
John in the wine county

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