Maintain Riedel Glassware

I just got a bunch of Riedel and would like to know the best way to keep it looking great.
I have the Vinum ser.

Can you put them in the dishwasher?

If you forget to rinse the nice Barolo out and it dries over night and you are having some problem getting the glass clean can you use the bottle cleaning beads?

How do you recommend getting that last spot off the bottom inside of the Champagne flute?

Are the Riedel Microfiber cloths worth it?

Gary

I would STRONGLY recommend against the dishwasher. The dishwasher has at least two problems: (1) it causes breakage and (2) leaves "off" flavors in the glass.

I hand wash my Riedels (and any other wine glasses) the day after a dinner party (to avoid breakage if I've had a bit too much to drink*) and the rule is to rinse 1000 times, then rinse some more, then do a final rinse. I air dry. I do not try to dry them with any towel.

*once or twice I had too much to drink.

Gary
FWIW the head of Riedel in the UK puts his in the dishwasher.

Our own experiences of using the dishwasher have been good, with no breakages (though I'd dread having to clear the mess in there if we did!). Occasionally when the salt is low, the glasses can come out cloudy.

I do still on occasions do them by hand. For the dried on gunk you mention, a good soak helps, but a long thin brush can also help. Beware trying to squeeze anything (including your hand) inside the bulb, as the rims can be very weak. Always rinse out with hot water and yes I'm told microfibre is good, but can be picked up elsewhere for cheaper (online car supply websites IIRC are a decent source). Another cheap aid can be a drying stand (a budding carpenter might fancy having a go at one) where the glass is suspended upside down by resting it on two horizontal prongs.

We're not fussed about getting them spotless - living in a hardwater area, that's going to be an unwinnable battle. Clean and rinsed is enough.

regards

Ian

Gary
FWIW the head of Riedel in the UK puts his in the dishwasher.

I wonder if he gets them free (so breakage isn't an issue for him)?

[Jenise]

We do use the dishwasher for the short stem Riedels, but only after a party (quantity) and only when they're the only occupant of said dishwasher to avoid the problem Tom speaks of. Also, we often use the open, empty dishwasher as a drying rack for glasses we handwash.

Stains: always pour a little water in the glasses that sit overnight to prevent red wine from being hard to get out. Remove any stubborn stains with an Efferdent tablet. That spot in the bottom of the flute? Ignore it, or push a soft cloth down there on the end of a chop stick.

Tom
I'd expect he could help himself to as many as he needs!

As I say, we've not had a breakage over ~ 5 years of putting them through the dishwasher, c.f. I think 3-4 we've lost handwashing (sound advice you give about not doing them on the night if it's been a heavy one - and indeed better to pop a little warm water into the glasses & have breakfast first, before attacking the washing up. Also beware of overfilling with water as they can easily over balance in the hand and also place a little too much stress on the neck (of the glass that is!).

Maybe it depends on type of dishwasher - some being more brutal / less carefully designed than others? Also the type of Riedel (ours are Vinums except for some Ouverture champagne glasses)?

Incidentally, I don't know if it's been mentioned here before, but some sharp knives (e.g. Global) take very badly to being put through the dishwasher, becoming brittle over time.

regards

Ian

Ian,

That's an excellent point about the quality of your dishwasher. I have a relatively low priced GE. I'm sure if you have a $2,500 Miele, Dacor or Bosch then there may be less of an issue with using the dishwasher. That said, I've still gotten "off" flavors in the glass from most glasses that have been in a dishwasher.

I too sometimes (but not always) get off flavours. I guess it depends how good the rinsing is, depending on position in the dishwasher. But making sure the sides are rinsed with wine usually gets rid of them - I don't even usually chuck out the wine I use to rinse I just move the wine round the sides and it does the trick. We have a modern mid-range Bosch BTW.

Note that crystal glass, though tougher, is supposed to be softer, and thus more susceptible to dishwasher damage. So it will depend to an extent what sort of Riedels you have. Damage is also supposed to be related to how dirty the other stuff in your dishwasher is, and the temperature. I regularly wash very cheap ISOs and quite nice (non-crystal) Schott Zwiesels in the dishwasher with dirty plates etc. Every now and then I get a cloudy ISO or tumbler, but my Schott Zwiesels are fine. I doubt very much that if you do glasses by themselves on a mild wash any harm would occur. I don't really see how dishwashers can break glasses if stacked properly - much more likely IMO to break glasses by hand washing.

So - no firm conclusions from me I am afraid. I wish, for my sake too, I was more sure of my facts, but as far as I can make out no one is.

Oh, and as far as dried red wine is concerned - do you not find that the smallest amount of water poured into the glass removes the wine spot? I always do.

Removing red wine stains or white wine still or sparkling remainders from glasses of any quality is quite simple. Simply place half a teaspoon of lemon-salt in the glass, pour over a bit of quite warm but not boiling water, let that stand for five minutes and then wash as usual.

Best
Rogov

I don't really see how dishwashers can break glasses if stacked properly - much more likely IMO to break glasses by hand washing.

Steve,

I have over 25+ years worth of data and in my experience the ranking of highest to lowest for breakage is:

1. hand washing the same night as the wine tasting/dinner
2. dishwasher
3. hand washing the next day

Maybe its the inexpensive dishwashers but I get breakage and chips from things moving around in the dishwasher. Maybe I don't stack them properly. For me its just not worth the risk of breakage and "off flavors" so I always hand wash.

I break very few glasses washing by hand. My faucet is such that its almost impossible to clink the glass on the faucet and I almost never drop a glass (causing it to break). Although after typing this message I'm sure I'll break a glass this weekend.

Although after typing this message I'm sure I'll break a glass this weekend.

The sound of people on this thread, carefully trying to avoid tempting fate, has been deafening

Riedel do themselves wash their glasses in an ordinary dishwasher in their office. I quizzed the Riedel rep at wine show a while ago.

But. The dishwasher is used only for glasses and they don't use detergent in powder form.

Rep said is you wash with dirtly plates/cutlery food particles from them act like an abrasive and scratch the glass causing cloudyness in time

Peter
Many thanks for this.

Of course this looks like a clear opening for them that oddly they've not explored yet Riedel Dishwashers. Using only the finest materials, ergonomically designed to be elegant yet practical, catering for a wide range of glass shapes & styles. Indeed in developing this innovative product, they've employed the finest *engineers, to replicate the features of their glasses. So much so that when you gently brush the side of the machine, it suffers immediate and catastrophic failure, with sharp bits flying everywhere.

* Brum's finest that is

catering for a wide range of glass shapes & styles.

By which you of course mean there is one dishwasher for each range and type of glass

What the rep said, Peter, corresponds a lot with what I have read when searching on the web. But regarding clouding, my personal experience is that glasses are often fine for many washes, and then suddenly get clouded. I have been presuming that the victims were unfortunately located by a blast of dirty chemical laden water.

After a party with suffcient alcohol that I felt it wasn't safe to hand wash my Riedel glasses, I partially filled the glasses with water (recommended several times above) and added a spot of dishwasher detergent to each. When I (eventually) cleared the backlog (hand washing) I found a 'residual mark' (ring) where the water level had been. This took up to 10 individual washes to remove (some less, but the amount of detergent added was not measured). I assumed (as it doesn't happen without the detergent) that this residue arises from the 'chemicals in the detergent). This implied (to me) that using ANY detergent leaves a film on the glass - and I don't want to risk that in any of my better wines. Accordingly, I don't use detergent - but if you want to run the glasses througfh a 'wash cycle' without detergent, feel free to do so.
Incidentally, I only broke Riedels the first year I bought them. Once I figured out they were fragile, I've never broken any since.

Alan,

Is your last sentence a comment about using/loading the dishwasher or hand washing?

Hand washing.
I never use the dishwasher.
I broke a couple initially (hand washing) as I hadn't developed the proper technique.
Now I have a MAXIMUM four glasses at a time in the sink (usually less - only 1 for the Burgundy) and I dry the insides first (with a clean towel) before drying the outsides (and hold by the bowl (cupping) wherever feasible - if the towel twists the bowl, it rotates because of the wetness (lower friction). Every glass I've broken has been because of twisting/rotation (OK I once put a glass on top of another and it broke - but that was clumsiness). So that shouldn't occur in a dishwasher - my problem there is the detergent.
NEVER dry a glass while holding the base - great way to get a broken stem through the palm of your hand.

And a comment on the reporting of what happens at Riedel HQ (or Agencies). Georg Riedel told me that he does a final rinse with distilled water, then uses a hairdryer to dry the glasses.
Of course, he can't be everywhere checking on what REALLY happens.

Hi,
I have just a very few Sommelier (seconds, bought at the factory in Austria) Bordeaux and Burgundy - though they call them by far fancier names.

I wash them immediately after dinner, carefully, one at a time in a sink full of hot water without detergent (which I find contaminates the glass). I then rinse with the hottest water I can get, drain a few seconds and dry each with 2 clean linen glasscloths, themselves washed without detergent.

Having discovered at the Tate (back in the good old days, when Tom Machin was in charge there) how easily glass cloths and washing up can spoil my drinking experience (Lynch Bages '61 - the glass dried with a cloth previously used for drying a freshly washed plate used for smoked mackerel) I am not going to repeat the experience. Sommeliers (neither glass nor human) won't fit into my Miele, so even if I wanted to try it, I couldn't. I do wash my normal INAO tasting glasses in the machine as part of the normal washing load, and if I've had a complicated meal (6 courses, each with its own wine for 6/8 people) I will do a special glasses wash with my decent Berry Bros glasses. Because European dishwasher have water softeners built in, I don't seem to get much of a problem of clouding, especially now I use a gel detergent.

Hand washing.
I never use the dishwasher.

Alan,

Thanks. My hand washing process is very similar.

I expect the residue / no residue issue with dishwashers is strongly related to your water supply. We have been using our nice-but-not-fabulous dishwasher for our short-stem Reidels on a daily basis for 2+ years with no clouding, no breakage, and no problems with residue that we or any of our fairly wine-geeky friends can detect. But the water here in N.O. is pretty good from a rinsing perspective - if you live somewhere with hard water, I could see how that might be a totally different story.