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WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

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WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Salil » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:24 am

(with Rieslaner fireworks to top it all off)

Seven of us got together at Grand Sich for a really fun night of Burgs and Rieslings yesterday. We had an insane lineup (to the point that a couple of bottles did not even get opened, and I don't think I even got around to tasting a '94 Schonborn that was also on the table) with some great friends and the usual good Szechuan fare that included lots of dumplings and tea-smoked duck. :D

Burgs were served first (to go with the pork broth dumplings and the duck), we moved onto the Rieslings later with the spicier dishes.

1988 Domaine Georges Mugneret Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Chaignots
Slightly tight, unyielding aromatics at first but this opens up with a little air and shows a lovely floral perfume with touches of spice, black tea and pretty red fruited flavours. Light, silken and elegant with tannins mostly resolved and bright acidity giving it plenty of energy and lift.

1990 Domaine Louis Remy Latricières-Chambertin
Phenomenal; starts out with intoxicating aromatics of rose petals, violets, gingerbread, earth and red fruits that lead into a palate that's incredibly polished, glossy and silken, showing bright fruits, savoury spice, floral and earthy flavours and faint grainy tannins on the back end. Stunning wine.

1994 Domaine Truchot-Martin Gevrey-Chambertin 1er Cru Aux Combottes Vieilles Vignes
Starts out feeling a little old; cloudy in appearance with slightly blurry, tired fruit flavours - but over an hour and with food (particularly the pork with chestnut) this really picks up as the aromatics brighten up and take on a lovely perfumed character with orange peel, leather, spice and earthy elements, and the fruit gains definition and clarity in the mouth. Very gentle, light and elegant in the mouth with bright acidity and fine, grainy tannins on the back end - lovely to sit down with and follow with dinner.

1998 Domaine Robert Arnoux Vosne-Romanée Les Hautes-Maizières
Starts out quite funky and leathery on the nose, then with some air floral, cinnamon and clove spice elements emerge. Really polished and elegant in the mouth with ripe red and dark fruits layered with all sorts of spices, and finishing long and savoury with leather and earthy notes on the back end. Delicious.

2004 Domaine Bruno Clair Savigny-lès-Beaune 1er Cru La Dominode
No green here, just bright, sappy red fruits and black cherry flavours with touches of spice and faint herbal notes. Still very young and primary, but very well balanced and a pleasure to drink already. (My attention on the Burgs started to fade around this point as the first of the Rieslings got pulled from the ice bucket :D)

2000 Domaine Moillard Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Aux Malconsorts
Pretty, sappy red fruited flavours given an exotic touch with lots of spice and black tea, light and elegant with bright acidity and very food-friendly.

2002 Domaine Jean Tardy et Fils Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Les Chaumes
Tight and unyielding, very closed with only some red fruited notes peeking out. Hands off.

1994 Joh. Jos. Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten Riesling Auslese 2-star
Stunning - shockingly young and primary for a 15 year old wine (and looking incredibly pale and youthful in the glass), but incredibly delicious with bright peach, lime, apple and white fruited flavours layered over slate and flowers. Not very sweet as I'd expect from an Auslese, incredibly light on its feet and well balanced with a backbone of bright acidity underneath and a long finish. Fantastic wine.

1976 Weingut Robert Weil Kiedricher Wasseros Riesling Auslese
Amazing scent with all sorts of exotic spices, honeyed pineapple, apricot and mandarin orange. Very sweet, powerful and rich in the mouth with an almost pillowy texture and an array of ripe tropical fruits and lemon candy dusted with honey, cardamom and ginger. Still has plenty of life and freshness with good acidity and a very long finish that lingers on and on.

1983 Joh Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese
Corked. Damnit.

2001 Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Brücke Riesling Spätlese
Classic Brücke; bright white fruited flavours over layers of rocks, salts and minerals, although still very primary and sweet. Very tasty now but needs time.

2004 Müller-Catoir Haardter Bürgergarten 'Im Breumel' Riesling Spätlese trocken
So chiselled and minerally it could have been carved from rock; beneath the rock quarry aromas there's bright lime and white fruits freshened up by plenty of acidity and green tea and other herbal elements that create an almost cooling sensation on the back end. Awesome.

1997 Schloss Lieser Niederberg Helden Riesling Spätlese
Seems quite awkward with more advanced, honeyed flavours than I'd expect from a '97, and noticeable volatile acidity on the nose. Most likely an off bottle.

1996 Schloss Lieser Niederberg Helden Riesling Auslese
Pretty honeyed and floral aromatics leading into a palate full of white fruited flavours, slate, floral elements and honey with bright acidity balancing the sweetness and giving it a sense of real freshness and lightness. Delicious - I need to drink more from Lieser!

1998 Müller-Catoir Gimmeldinger Schlössel Rieslaner Trockenbeerenauslese
Unbelievable - the most amazing sweet wine I've ever had. The flavour profile is insanely complex with all kinds of exotic spices, red chillies, honey, caramel, herbs and a spectrum of ripe tropical and white fruited flavours with serious acidity underneath, and unlike other dessert wines I've had the sweetness isn't what stands out here as the spicy flavours keep building up with air and leave a ridiculously long finish of caramel dusted with chilli powder, cumin and ginger. A real treat to drink, thanks Jay!
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Rahsaan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:29 am

Salil Benegal wrote:Delicious - I need to drink more from Lieser!


I've been thinking the same thing but I don't see them around much.

Looks like a nice lineup!
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Salil » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:45 pm

Rahsaan wrote:I've been thinking the same thing but I don't see them around much.

Agree; I only really see them sold at Crush and occasionally the odd bottle at Chambers.

Frustrating as what little I've had has been very, very good.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by David M. Bueker » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:18 pm

I have a few Liesers. I picked them up on the west coast.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Hoke » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:59 pm

Well, Lieser has, as they say, some "history".

It's gone back and forth in quality estimations over the long stretch.

When the Mosel started coming on strong again in the 70s, Lieserer had changed from a fairly highly regarded spot to an iffy one. And that's where a lot of experimentation went on during that stretch (albeit primarily the vines higher up toward the plateau as I understood it), and we saw other-than-Riesling with the Lieserer name on it. I think they were primarily trying to produce more BA style wines at lower price points (which meant experimentation with other things).

I believe that's all long behind us though. Certainly no reason that Lieserer can't be producing some very good wines now. Although I haven't heard a great deal about them, or seen many hit the market.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Salil » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:14 pm

Hoke,
I'm not familiar with the older Lieser history - thank you for that info. Although from what I've understand, Thomas Haag took over the winemaking at the estate in either 1992 or 1994 and since then they've been on a steady uphill climb and in the last 10 or so years have been producing some really good wines. I've really enjoyed their basic Estate QBA in the last few vintages (the 06 Estate was on par with Donnhoff and Leitz's QBAs for quality, just in a slightly drier style) and the few higher-pradikat wines I have had have generally been very impressive. I am looking forward to trying some of their 08s.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by David M. Bueker » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:17 pm

Lieser can trace its resurgence to the arrival of one of the Haag clan (Thomas?) in the 90s. There have been some very fine wines since then, though they can be a bit spotty. In addition to the Lieserer Niederberg Helden, they now have some of the Brauneberger Juffer Sonnenuhr. Rudi Wiest brings the wines to the USA.

Salil - T&V has the '07 Kabinett I think.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Salil » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:12 pm

I noticed that last time I was there, but given that I was loading up on the 05 Schmitt-Wagner Kabinett I ended up passing over pretty much every other Kabinett they had (even the Selbach 07 Sonnenuhr).

On an aside, I brought home the leftovers of the 04 Muller-Catoir "Im Breumel" trocken. Had the remaining couple of glasses with dinner tonight, and it really had fleshed out a fair bit, showing much more richness and depth to the fruit but while retaining the purity, precision and the gorgeous minerally character it showed last night. That is a really lovely wine and one of the best dry Rieslings I've had in a while.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Rahsaan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:20 pm

Interesting. My only exposure to Lieser (that I can remember) has been post-2001 and it has seemed very much my style of wine. At least the bottles I've tried.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by JC (NC) » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:37 am

It is helpful to some that may not be as familiar with German wines to include Mosel-Saar-Ruwer, Nahe, Pfalz and the like. Great notes on two of my favorite wine regions (Germany and Burgundy) and your enthusiasm shines through.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Andrew Burge » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:39 pm

Hi all,

thankfully Schloss Lieser is one German producer we see a lot of in Australia, it is now actively imported, and we're better off for it.

Salil, what do you think of the ageing potential for the Muller Cator Im Bruemel? I have the set of three with Im Aspen and Im Gehren in the cellar and I'm wondering what to do with them,

regards

Andrew
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Bob Henrick » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:06 pm

Andrew Burge wrote:Hi all,

thankfully Schloss Lieser is one German producer we see a lot of in Australia, it is now actively imported, and we're better off for it.

Salil, what do you think of the ageing potential for the Muller Cator Im Bruemel? I have the set of three with Im Aspen and Im Gehren in the cellar and I'm wondering what to do with them,

regards

Andrew


Hi Andrew, we don't see much of you around these parts. Welcome back!
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Mark Kogos » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:28 am

Andrew Burge wrote:Hi all,

thankfully Schloss Lieser is one German producer we see a lot of in Australia, it is now actively imported, and we're better off for it.

Salil, what do you think of the ageing potential for the Muller Cator Im Bruemel? I have the set of three with Im Aspen and Im Gehren in the cellar and I'm wondering what to do with them,

regards

Andrew

Andrew

It also helps a friend of ours is bringing it in. :D After the tasting earlier this year, I ended up with a mixed case of the 07.

Mark
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Salil » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:46 am

Andrew Burge wrote:Salil, what do you think of the ageing potential for the Muller Cator Im Bruemel? I have the set of three with Im Aspen and Im Gehren in the cellar and I'm wondering what to do with them,

Hi Andrew,
I can't say for sure as I'm not familiar with the track record for those wines. But the 04 Breumel has amazing balance and plenty of richness, so I would certainly imagine it'll be great to hold onto for another several years. For what it's worth, I looked up Terry Theise's recommendations in his catalogue - he suggests release-15 years for the Catoir trockens.
That said I hope it's the 04s you have and not the 03s. I had a couple of the 03 parcel-designated trockens a couple of years ago and was quite unimpressed; found them in general too alcoholic for my liking.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Mark Kogos » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:25 pm

A friend of ours is putting on a Schloss Lieser dinner in March. If anyone is likely to be in Sydney, this should be a superb evening (and by then I should be off this damn diet and be able to drink again) :x

Apéritif
2007 Riesling Kabinett

Canapées
Sushi, Root Vegetable Terrine
2008 Riesling Qba dry
2008 Riesling Qba off-dry

1st Starter
Carpaccio of White Fish with lemon vinaigrette or
Tuna Tataki/Tartare
2008 Riesling Kabinett
2008 Brauneberger Juffer Riesling Kabinett

2nd Starter
Sautéed Caramelized Scallops
2008 Niederberg Helden Riesling Spätlese
2007 Niederberg Helden Riesling Spätlese

WhiteFish (aromatic & spicy)
2008 Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese
2007 Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese

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Mystery Wine No.1
Mystery wine No.2

Dessert or Pre-Dessert
Poached Mango, Honey, Passionfruit, Clove, Caramel,
2008 Niederberg Helden Riesling Auslese
2008 Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese

Cheese - Triple Cream Cheese, Goats cheese
2008 Niederberg Helden Riesling Auslese Goldcap
2008 Brauneberger Juffer-Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese Goldcap

Digéstif
2006 Niederberg Helden Riesling Long Goldcap
2006 Riesling Beerenauslese
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Rahsaan » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:22 am

Mark Kogos wrote:Digéstif
2006 Niederberg Helden Riesling Long Goldcap
2006 Riesling Beerenauslese


I usually think of spirits for digéstif but I would not turn this down :wink:

Is the BA really just 'riesling'? No vineyard designation? If so, do you know the backstory? Sounds like a potential for random overdone botrytis, but I'm sure there is a better and more delicious explanation.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Mark Kogos » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:14 am

I am sure all well be revealed on the night. I will finally have something worth posting this year after the dinner even if I have to wait until March :)
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by James Roscoe » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:53 pm

I love these notes Salil and the reverse drinking order of reds and then whites. With pinots and Rieslings it absolutely works! Well done! I have had older Rieslings, but none of pedigree. I really need to get the opportunity to taste older Burgundys.
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Neville Yates » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm

Hello everyone, I'll just dive in with a couple of quick answers:

The Schloss Lieser BA is a Niederberg Helden 06. And the final two rich wines at that dinner are to follow a digestive, not perform as one.

Thomas Haag went to work at Schloss Lieser in 1992 when it had no clients, no stock and was in a general mess from neglect. After three years he had attained a two-star rating in Gault Millau. After five years as general manager and cellarmaster he bought the estate in 1997 and became a member of the VDP in 1998. In 2000 it was rated four stars by Gault Millau and now 4.5 stars -- one of only nine in Germany, with another nine rated five stars.

Cheers,
Neville
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Rahsaan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:08 pm

Neville Yates wrote:The Schloss Lieser BA is a Niederberg Helden 06. And the final two rich wines at that dinner are to follow a digestive, not perform as one.


Thanks for the specification. I tasted some of the 06 Lieser BAs and TBAs at the initial release tastings and I don't remember being particularly impressed, but I'm sure/I hope the botrytis bombs have turned into something a bit more interesting with a few years of age. Would love to be at the dinner!

But, you're serving those rich wines after the digéstif? Doesn't that mean you'll just need more digéstives to help deal with all the sugar :D
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Bob Henrick » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:22 pm

Neville Yates wrote:Hello everyone, I'll just dive in with a couple of quick answers:

The Schloss Lieser BA is a Niederberg Helden 06. And the final two rich wines at that dinner are to follow a digestive, not perform as one.

Thomas Haag went to work at Schloss Lieser in 1992 when it had no clients, no stock and was in a general mess from neglect. After three years he had attained a two-star rating in Gault Millau. After five years as general manager and cellarmaster he bought the estate in 1997 and became a member of the VDP in 1998. In 2000 it was rated four stars by Gault Millau and now 4.5 stars -- one of only nine in Germany, with another nine rated five stars.

Cheers,
Neville


Neville, welcome to the forum. It sounds as if we have another poster who knows his German wines. Do you live in Germany, or just a really big fan of German wines?
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:02 am

Welcome Neville. Look forward to all your thoughts and insights on German wines and producers!
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Re: WTN: An excess of Burgundy and Riesling at Grand Sichuan

by Mark Kogos » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:29 am

Guys since Neville hasn't responded, I will answer the odd question for him. He was the kind fellow who got me back into German wines a couple of years back and has quietly assembled a stunning portfolio of these wines just as they are starting to take off. I have suggested there are some excellent rieslingheads on this forum he can chat with so I am pleased to see he has dropped past. His site is below.

http://www.eurocentricwine.com.au/
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