Wow! Italy!!!

Grosso for the World Cup!

GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL!!!!!!!!!!

Italy win the World Cup!

Great game. :-)

I'm happy
I bet Zinedine isn't though.

I think the word imbecile translates well between english and french.

[Robin Garr]

Grosso for the World Cup!

GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL!!!!!!!!!!

Italy win the World Cup!

Great game.

It was an exciting game, Bob ... only in soccer is a low-scoring tie exciting.

I wish they didn't have to win on penalty kicks, but still, a win's a win.

That was also a really weird deal with Zidane's head-butt ejection. I could only puzzle out the basics on Spanish tv ... guess I'll have to wait and read the details in The Times.

Robin
Initially it seemed neither the referee, nor his assitants saw it. It appeared to be the 4th official that informed the ref, but there was some suggestion on our coverage, that they'd used video evidence (though in theory that's not allowed). However they did it, they got it exactly right.
regards
Ian

I watched on Spanish TV, but followed with the Times play by play. Here's what they said real time:

Break Materazzi reached around and twisted Zidane’s nipple! That’s what got Zidane so steamed! Materazzi tricked Zidane! Or so it seems from the replay. Can’t be totally sure though.

I've been reading the sports stories in various publications around the world. It's amazing how little complaining there is about games decided by penalties -- seems so odd from a US perspective.

I still have a great deal to learn about the mores of the game, but the last two World Cups have captured my imagination.

[i]Break Materazzi reached around and twisted Zidane’s nipple! That’s what got Zidane so steamed!

Ah mais oui
A kiss yes, but no nipples on a first date
No lasting friendship there then.

[David M. Bueker]

I had been rooting for France until the Zidane incident. I sure hope the Italian player said something nasty about Zidane's mother. Otherwise that was completely uncalled for.

[Jenise]

Materazzi reached around and twisted Zidane’s nipple!

And there I was saying to my husband that one needs to have pretty thick skin to play this game. In reality, perhaps, just thick nipples.

Great game! Though really a shame that Zidane had to do that.

I really enjoyed seeing Germany play so well yesterday in the 3rd place match. Ballack wasn't even in and Kahn was in goal. That was fun =).

[James Roscoe]

only in soccer is a low-scoring tie exciting.

Robin, have you ever watched two pitchers throw nine innings of shutout baseball? While I agree that the soccer game was exiting, so is the baseball game. Especially if it's aided by great fielding.

Bob, I am simply replying in your post, and not aiming this post directly at you, but here it is anyway.

Why is it that every professional team sport I can think of, the object is to see how we can cheat, and how can we get away with it. Individual sports such as golf, bowling, rodeo rifding, or whatever that doesn't seem to be the case. I see this kind of stuff ongoing and I do NOT wonder why I, who used to be a huge baseball and football fan now am completely turned off. I have been a St. Louis Cardinal baseball fan since I was very, very young. I was a fan of the Dallas Cowboys since their inception in 1960. Now, I look at their score (in season) and yawn. As far as the NBA, it is mostly thugs who play the game, none of the old type Celtics/76'ers/St. Louis Hawks, kind of players even exist today. In my view, pro sports has reached a porta potty level, and the hotter the summer gets the more they stink. Sorry Bob to lay this on you, but as I said it is not aimed at you just a rant that landed in your thread.

[David M. Bueker]

Bob, I am simply replying in your post, and not aiming this post directly at you, but here it is anyway.

Why is it that every professional team sport I can think of, the object is to see how we can cheat, and how can we get away with it. Individual sports such as golf, bowling, rodeo rifding, or whatever that doesn't seem to be the case. I see this kind of stuff ongoing and I do NOT wonder why I, who used to be a huge baseball and football fan now am completely turned off. I have been a St. Louis Cardinal baseball fan since I was very, very young. I was a fan of the Dallas Cowboys since their inception in 1960. Now, I look at their score (in season) and yawn. As far as the NBA, it is mostly thugs who play the game, none of the old type Celtics/76'ers/St. Louis Hawks, kind of players even exist today. In my view, pro sports has reached a porta potty level, and the hotter the summer gets the more they stink. Sorry Bob to lay this on you, but as I said it is not aimed at you just a rant that landed in your thread.

In some cases I agree with you Bob, but there are some major glimmers of hope. Players like David Ortiz, Albert Pujols and David Wright play hard and fair, making baseball what it should be. The NFL is still great. I don't get what your beef could be there. Just watch the New England Patriots play. That's a team. All they care about is winning together. Even the NBA is getting better. LeBron James is not the spoiled brat type, and he's one of the major faces of the league. There's a lot more to celebrate than that. Sure there are the Iverson, Terrel Owens and Barry Bonds of hte sports world, but if you just turn off Sportscenter you can completely ignore them and just enjoy the games.

"Sorry Bob to lay this on you, but as I said it is not aimed at you just a rant that landed in your thread."

Nothing personal meant or taken, Bob.

From time to time I share your attitude, even about sports and teams I've loved for years.

I wonder if some of our angst about sports isn't just age, though. There are so many great athletes doing such extraordinary things -- and television lets us see every little detail -- many of them over and over again.

I look at the biography of the first inductee into the Baseball Hall of Fame -- Cobb even beat out Ruth -- I wonder how different it all is now, really.

But then I remember moments like the following:

It was July, 1962, and I helped a friend move down to St. Louis. His uncle treated us to a game -- don't remember who the other team was, but I was rooting for them loudly and much to the bemusement of the Cardinal fans around me. [I'm pretty sure Cardinal fans are consistently the most knowledgeable and the nicest baseball fans in the Majors -- I've never seen better, that's for sure.]

In any event, the Cards were losing by a run in the bottom of eighth, got a guy on, hit and ran him to second, next guy walked,and the manager sent Musial up to the plate.

I had never, ever felt such a surge of emotion. Musial had been injured for a few days, the fans were worried his career was over, and the Cards immediately gained a new recruit.

Musial hit what would normally have been a double, but could only barely beat the throw to first. The other runners scored.

The run held up and the Cards won.

***

Three weeks ago we went to a Yankee game -- I've been a Yankee fan since I was 12 -- great seats, tremendous number of interesting and thrilling plays with the Yankees starting great, getting tied, exploding, then watching a three run lead chipped away to a single run at the top of ninth.

Rivera walked through the bullpen gate in deep center -- and much as I'm distressed by the behaviour of Yankee fans in Yankee stadium, for the next minutes the emotion was exactly the same as I remember Musial 44 years ago.

***

Nothing defensive here, Bob. Just a personal chance to blow off about how much I still love sports -- despite so many negatives, the positives far far outweigh every single negative.

Regards, Bob

Thanks for the comeback David, and I don't paint every pro athelete with the same tar brush. If you look again, I am saying that pro SPORTS have become what I am so adverse to. take the world cup (of which I know little) all the tripping, diving, laying on of hands etc and all in the while trying to "get away" with it. the cheating that has gone on in baseball regarding steroids and HGH, and who knows what else? then the stuff in the NFL including murder for gods sake. And it seems that if the athelete in question can "deliver" then someone wants him. IMO he should be banned for his transgressions just as Pete Rose was. Why Pete and not others. Sorry For being so negative and dismal, but I have gone from being a rabid fan to being one who would just as soon see it all die.

Congratulations to Italy.

To those who might think there's some controversy: France had 90 minutes to score enough goals to put the game away--more than enough time. If they chose to fart away that time, that's their funeral.

-Paul W.

Great game! Though really a shame that Zidane had to do that.

I really enjoyed seeing Germany play so well yesterday in the 3rd place match. Ballack wasn't even in and Kahn was in goal. That was fun =).

I think that Zidane was a real idiot to have done that on his last international game of his career. He could have finished in a better way but hey may be he wanted to be remembered differently!!

[James Roscoe]

Great game! Though really a shame that Zidane had to do that.

I really enjoyed seeing Germany play so well yesterday in the 3rd place match. Ballack wasn't even in and Kahn was in goal. That was fun =).

I think that Zidane was a real idiot to have done that on his last international game of his career. He could have finished in a better way but hey may be he wanted to be remembered differently!!

Christelle, welcome to the board! Way to come out swinging. I tend to agree with you, although in Zidane's defense, the Italian evidently got in the first cheap shot and Zidane retalated. It's the first rule of sports. The guy who retaliates always gets caught.

[Jenise]

although in Zidane's defense, the Italian evidently got in the first cheap shot and Zidane retalated. It's the first rule of sports. The guy who retaliates always gets caught.

I don't follow soccer, but from what little I've seen that kind of "cheap shot" is fairly routine--players have to be immune to it. Zidane's retaliation was a selfish loss of self-control.

[David M. Bueker]

although in Zidane's defense, the Italian evidently got in the first cheap shot and Zidane retalated. It's the first rule of sports. The guy who retaliates always gets caught.

I don't follow soccer, but from what little I've seen that kind of "cheap shot" is fairly routine--players have to be immune to it. Zidane's retaliation was a selfish loss of self-control.

Agreed, but I do have to wonder how much of it was frustration from his depleted physical condition due to the earlier injury.

[James Roscoe]

Zidane was an idiot, no question. I did not make myself clear. In any sport you are always taught NEVER to retaliate. Cheap shots are routine in soccer (I was fairly good at them myself back in the day), and the first rule is to walk away. Especially when you have someone talking smack as was obviously happening in that situation. Zidane lost control and owes his teammates and his entire country an apology. Having said that, the Italian is a complete jerk.

Having said that, the Italian is a complete jerk.

He's a complete jerks who did exactly what he was told to do, and got exactly the result he was after. Zidane had to stay above it and he didn't. I will be curious to see the reaction to Zidane in the French press.

Break Materazzi reached around and twisted Zidane’s nipple! That’s what got Zidane so steamed! Materazzi tricked Zidane! Or so it seems from the replay. Can’t be totally sure though.

Wow -- I never saw that on the replay. I was guessing that Materazzi made a racial slur.

Of course, no excuses for doing that, but there has to be an explanation of some sort. Though I'm not sure we'll ever get a definitive answer, given that Zidane is refusing to talk to the media.

I thought it was one of the best finals ever played (at least over the past 16 years, my duration for watching the Cup) until Zidane was ejected. I thought the French outplayed Italy most of the match, but they still had trouble getting all the way through the impregnable Italian defense. And on the rare occations when they did, there was Buffon making great saves on Zidane's header and Henry's shot.

[Robin Garr]

Robin, have you ever watched two pitchers throw nine innings of shutout baseball? While I agree that the soccer game was exiting, so is the baseball game. Especially if it's aided by great fielding.

I thought about adding that asterisk when I made the initial post, James, but feared it would just complicate a simple argument.

I'll say this, though: Although I am in fact a baseball fan, I'd argue that it takes a connoisseur of baseball to appreciate a pitching duel, whereas in soccer, the constant, never-stopping action goes on for 90 minutes with hardly a break. You really can't take your eyes off the field, a situation that simply does not prevail in baseball.

The one thing I fear most about soccer becoming a mass-market American sport is that there would soon be huge pressure to find ways to increase the scoring. It took me a long time to figure this out as a fledgling soccer watcher, but it seems to me now that part of the joy of soccer is that goals ARE so rare. It's so damnably hard to get one that a score is a serious, momentous event, and with rare exceptions, they can't be had without teamwork.