WTN: A seriously elegant badass zinfandel

[Jenise]

2005 Outpost Zinfandel, Howell Mountain, California
Purple/black and dense in the glass. Hypnotically huge white pepper nose with tangy, blackberry and blueberry fruit, wood spice and cocoa. Popped and poured with all evening to watch it evolve, it was liquerish until the acidity and tannins fought their way through after about an hour. Meanwhile the massive white pepper nose kept us completely entertained, as did the tangy and voluptuous blackberry and blueberry fruit with wood spice and cocoa. It wears a Turleyesque viscosity and alcohol (16.2!!) surprisingly well, and it was a great match for the aggressively seasoned green chile burgers we had for dinner. This is a magestic wine and a whole different breed of zinfandel than I've had before; very impressive. Thanks Traci and Tony!

Hmmmmm.... Might not have guessed this was a wine that would be in your wheelhouse, so to speak. Thomas Brown makes some big wines.. but they do have balance....

Lucky you...

[Jenise]

Hmmmmm.... Might not have guessed this was a wine that would be in your wheelhouse, so to speak. Thomas Brown makes some big wines.. but they do have balance....

Lucky you...

You're right, it's not the type of wine I seek out, but I always appreciate well-made wines and variety, and the balance made all the big features work. The alcohol didn't blast out of the glass the way many wines of a percent or so less have, and I probably enjoyed it all the more because it was such a departure from our typical weekday wine.

Sounds great Jenise. How much did it cost?

[Jenise]

Sounds great Jenise. How much did it cost?

Well, it was a gift to me, but it retails for about $50.

It's a sad state. $50 zindandel. Tsk. Tsk.

I think back on the cases and cases I've drunk of Montelena, Storybook, Ridge, Lytton Springs, Ravenswood - not a bottle over $25.

It's a sad state. $50 zindandel. Tsk. Tsk.

I think back on the cases and cases I've drunk of Montelena, Storybook, Ridge, Lytton Springs, Ravenswood - not a bottle over $25.

I am with you Chef, my favorite zin is Nalle, and it has recently hit $30+ and $30 is my benchmark price. Too bad.

Why do many people have a different acceptable price limit for different grapes? I am not talking about comparing Burgundy with Malbec from Argentina but am thinking of within the same region or even the same winery. Specifically why is it acceptable to pay more for the Cabernet from Ridge or Montelena than the Zinfandel?

I use to feel the same way and then I realized it was because the zinfandel had always been cheaper. But as I think about it, I am not sure that there is a significant difference in the cost to produce and if the Zinfandel is supporting the higher price points than a supply and demand argument may be hard to make also. Does Zinfandel yield more tons/acre without quality loss that should allow it to be significantly cheaper or is there another reason?

2005 Outpost Zinfandel, Howell Mountain, California
Purple/black and dense in the glass. Hypnotically huge white pepper nose with tangy, blackberry and blueberry fruit, wood spice and cocoa. Popped and poured with all evening to watch it evolve, it was liquerish until the acidity and tannins fought their way through after about an hour. Meanwhile the massive white pepper nose kept us completely entertained, as did the tangy and voluptuous blackberry and blueberry fruit with wood spice and cocoa. It wears a Turleyesque viscosity and alcohol (16.2!!) surprisingly well, and it was a great match for the aggressively seasoned green chile burgers we had for dinner. This is a magestic wine and a whole different breed of zinfandel than I've had before; very impressive. Thanks Traci and Tony!

Yeah! So glad you liked it...The '05 is probably my favorite to date. I recently opened the '03 and it was drinking beautifully, too. Have you ever tried Thomas' Pinots from his own label, Rivers-Marie?

[Jenise]

It's a sad state. $50 zindandel. Tsk. Tsk.

I think back on the cases and cases I've drunk of Montelena, Storybook, Ridge, Lytton Springs, Ravenswood - not a bottle over $25.

Oh come on. Ridge wines are above $30 now but at that price they're still a steal. Top zin producers still don't get a fair price for their wines, IMO. Or to look at it another way, when you picked up your $95 Serene Graces last week, I presume you didn't tell them their wines are overpriced....

It's a sad state. $50 zindandel. Tsk. Tsk.

I think back on the cases and cases I've drunk of Montelena, Storybook, Ridge, Lytton Springs, Ravenswood - not a bottle over $25.

Oh come on. Ridge wines are above $30 now but at that price they're still a steal. Top zin producers still don't get a fair price for their wines, IMO. Or to look at it another way, when you picked up your $95 Serene Graces last week, I presume you didn't tell them their wines are overpriced....

Yes, things have changed - $125.00.

[Jenise]

Why do many people have a different acceptable price limit for different grapes? I am not talking about comparing Burgundy with Malbec from Argentina but am thinking of within the same region or even the same winery. Specifically why is it acceptable to pay more for the Cabernet from Ridge or Montelena than the Zinfandel?

I use to feel the same way and then I realized it was because the zinfandel had always been cheaper. But as I think about it, I am not sure that there is a significant difference in the cost to produce and if the Zinfandel is supporting the higher price points than a supply and demand argument may be hard to make also. Does Zinfandel yield more tons/acre without quality loss that should allow it to be significantly cheaper or is there another reason?

Brian, I hadn't seen your response when I answered Chef just now but yeah, we're on the same page: the land is worth X, it takes the same amount of labor to pick, crush and ferment the grapes, but it should sell for 1/4 the price of cabernet? I know that on a per ton basis zin grapes don't command the prices of cabernet and pinot noir these days, but still, if farmers can't get a fair price there's no incentive to keep growing and making zin, especially in pricey Napa Valley.

Why do many people have a different acceptable price limit for different grapes? I am not talking about comparing Burgundy with Malbec from Argentina but am thinking of within the same region or even the same winery. Specifically why is it acceptable to pay more for the Cabernet from Ridge or Montelena than the Zinfandel?

I use to feel the same way and then I realized it was because the zinfandel had always been cheaper. But as I think about it, I am not sure that there is a significant difference in the cost to produce and if the Zinfandel is supporting the higher price points than a supply and demand argument may be hard to make also. Does Zinfandel yield more tons/acre without quality loss that should allow it to be significantly cheaper or is there another reason?

Brian, I hadn't seen your response when I answered Chef just now but yeah, we're on the same page: the land is worth X, it takes the same amount of labor to pick, crush and ferment the grapes, but it should sell for 1/4 the price of cabernet? I know that on a per ton basis zin grapes don't command the prices of cabernet and pinot noir these days, but still, if farmers can't get a fair price there's no incentive to keep growing and making zin, especially in pricey Napa Valley.

Montelena cabs at different stages of their life represent something that Zin is not capable of being. I've still got a few Montelena cabs from the 80's even a couple of 78s. Great wines, made from what is considered a great grape. Love Zin but it is not considered a great grape and has it's limitations. The market represents that value.

[Jenise]

Montelena cabs at different stages of their life represent something that Zin is not capable of being. I've still got a few Montelena cabs from the 80's even a couple of 78s. Great wines, made from what is considered a great grape. Love Zin but it is not considered a great grape and has it's limitations. The market represents that value.

Well stated.

Montelena cabs at different stages of their life represent something that Zin is not capable of being. I've still got a few Montelena cabs from the 80's even a couple of 78s. Great wines, made from what is considered a great grape. Love Zin but it is not considered a great grape and has it's limitations. The market represents that value.

Lou,
I agree with Jenise that you stated the case very t well, and with few words too. And I even agree largely with your sentiments, but I hope that all those zin growers won't take it to heart about zinfandel not being a great grape. Heavens, what if they ripped out all those 50 to 100 year old vines and planted cabernet! The world is a better place for having zin in it.

Montelena cabs at different stages of their life represent something that Zin is not capable of being. I've still got a few Montelena cabs from the 80's even a couple of 78s. Great wines, made from what is considered a great grape. Love Zin but it is not considered a great grape and has it's limitations. The market represents that value.

Lou,
I agree with Jenise that you stated the case very t well, and with few words too. And I even agree largely with your sentiments, but I hope that all those zin growers won't take it to heart about zinfandel not being a great grape. Heavens, what if they ripped out all those 50 to 100 year old vines and planted cabernet! The world is a better place for having zin in it.

Bob, I wouldn't worry, just look at the price of so many of Zins these days. Unfortunately the price of wine has gone up more than the rate of inflation for quite a few years now. Too much money chasing too few bottles of vino. The recession we seem to be slipping into at this time will probably slow up the growth rate but that's a tough way to retard prices.