Bordeaux 2005 and doubts of a great vintage

At last autumns 2005 pre release tasting I became generally unimpressed with most 2005s. I have not tasted Bordeaux en-primeur since 2003. I was highly critic of the 2003 at en-primeur and I am in the same fashion critical to 2005.

My time in Spain made me sensitive to the big Spanish problem - how to manage aromatic ripeness despite hot weather. In Bordeaux they haven't had this problem. Well, it seem they have it now.

Today I tasted Beychevelle 2005 to 1985 and the 2005 did not came out favorable. The Beychevelles seems to have a green pepper in the nose often, but in the 2005 it was dominant. This a clear sign of bad ripening of Cabernet Sauvignon. Over ripe fruit flavors dominated, just as I experienced in the 2000 and 2003 vintage. In 2000 they got away with it, in 2003 and 2005 not - too strong and unbalanced.

Further there was a lot of aromatic unripe green impressions - the same as biting in a green apple. I, who has tasted young Bordeauxs for 15 years, do not recognize this in other vintages.

The Beychevelle 2005 put the nail in the coffin for me. 2005 is not a great vintage. It is a very good one but generally its too over ripe, green and unbalanced.

Where are Bordeaux going today? Doesn't aromatic ripeness count anymore? First claiming 2003 to be a great vintage now 2005 the vintage of the eternity despite it beeing similar but not superior to 2000?

Best
FredriK Svensson, Luxembourg

The Beychevelle 2005 put the nail in the coffin for me. 2005 is not a great vintage. It is a very good one but generally its too over ripe, green and unbalanced.

Dear Fredrik,
basically I'm absolutely with you although Beychevelle is usually an inconsistent performer and hence not representative for any Bordeaux vintage's average quality (thinking of '90, '95, '96).
Dieter

don't know what to make of this post. i've had similar comments about 2000 and 2003 from MW doug frost and i felt the same way about 2003. but 2005 has convinced frost and me and everyone i know. this vintage is the real deal! i'm a bit concerned about the facts, too. i thought the 'en premiur' occured at the end of april following the vintage - NOT the sept. of the release. i attended the US tour of the union of grands cru in january of this year where 100 wines were available. now i didn't taste them all; and there were a few misses - notably Giscours and Smith Ht. Lafite - but all in all i thought it the best vintage i had seen. seconds after accessing this post, i checked email and found one from one of the US top wine stores declaring that 2005 is the best vintage since 1961. i started tasting bordeaux seriously with the '66 vintage -now talk about overrated and green!- and i have to say that i agree. the 2005's are really remarkable wines - very special. some of the lesser chateau have made cru classe quality wine! liversan for example. (i was once put on a medication that did something like this to my palate; also once when i changed dentifrice) i'm a bit puzzled by the lack of other responses. is it that others agree or disagree so thoroughly as not to consider this worht discussing - as i did initially.

I didn't comment due to lack of personal data. I couldn't go to UGC in NY, and have only tasted a few lesser wines. I've taken delivery on some others, but with reports of closed down wines I'm reluctant to open wines I only have 3 or 6 of.

I have generally liked the low level 05s I've tried, except for some I disliked stylisically.

I'm not generally a fan of Beychevelle for last 25-30 years (hey, I liked the '66!), can't imagine extrapolating about a vintage from that. Didn't think the 2000 was great.

Like David, the reports I've seen from folks I respect have been very very positive. John Gilman had some negative comments about some 2005 wines that stirred up a minor hornet's nest elsewhere, but he was quite clear he thought the vintage itself was great, he just felt lots of chateaux flubbed it stylistically (John is an extreme oakaphobic, and dislikes most "modern" Bordeaux).

Overall, I'm feeling fine over my 2005 purchases (which were lower than normal due to the prices). In fact wish I had splurged for more.

I was able to sample many 2005’s during at the New York City UGC (note to Dale: AKR was very instrumental in getting me an invite). After then, I proclaimed the 2005’s to be AT LEAST as good as the 2000’s, which is a personal favorite.

Prior to the tasting, I had purchased, en primeur, a mixed case of 3 Right Bank wines. After the tasting, my feeling was that I wouldn’t mind purchasing 90% of the stuff that I tasted – Left and/or Right Banks. But, admittedly, it wasn’t in the best interest of my wallet. My feeling, until now, is that the 2005’s are the "very" real deal.

Ramon

Ramon, I had the invite, it just wasn't a day I could do. Any particular wines that struck you as values? I'm thinking of going for a few more (though pricing is getting worse and worse).

Dale,

Value, or more so in terms of what I would like to afford, were hard to come by when I perused my Winesearcher that night after the tasting.

However, even with my perennial preference for the Left Bank stuff, the Saint Emilion wines were the ones that has me checking until now for anything that may entice me to buy.

Ramon

I had the opportunity to taste 20 or so '05s from satellite appellations and minor Chateaux in Feb. My overall impression was one of impressive tannic structure. Many of the wines were formidably tannic with good supporting acidity. With few exceptions, I didn't get any overripeness in those wines, nor any discernable green elements. My impression was that a hot drought year such as '03 is the kind of year that produces some surprisingly green wines because some highly stressed vines will actually shut down, stopping the ripening process. In '05, I've seen no sign of problems with phenolic ripeness.

Mark Lipton

[David M. Bueker]

I've had only about 15 '05s to date (only 4 classed growths), but I have not yet run into any green issues or overripeness issues except in some no-name bargain wines. The classed wines (and notable satellite wines) have all been ripe but not too ripe, tannic and with good acid balance as noted by other posters. I didn't buy much due to pricing (and having enough Bordeaux in the cellar), but if I had the $ and the space I would buy quite a lot.

dale - you didn't ask my opinion; but i'll chime in anyway. when i went to the ugc tasting in chicago i did it with a list of what was actually available somewhere that i could afford and started with those. i then purchased the wines. here is what i purchased:

olivier
ferriere
poujeaux
malartic
rauzan gassies
lascombes - ok no bargain; but gosh its good
dauzac
d'armailhac

also wanted to purchase carbonnieux and d'angludet; but they were out of stock.

now would readily purchase liversan.

also liked but did not buy for various reasons mostly price: poyferre, ht. bages liberal, beychevelle.

Dieter. so far you are the only one agreeing with me! Well, I am not 100% sure I am right, my number of samples from 2005 is not more than maybe 50 wines since the vintage. Will be interesting to see them again in five years!

i started tasting Bordeaux seriously with the '66 vintage -now talk about overrated and green!- and i have to say that i agree.

David. You response rises an interesting point that I would like to make to those not familiar with green impressions (It seems to me as if you are)

The 66 and 2005 are green of opposite reasons. The 66 would be green because of a lack of sugar ripeness which gives a leafy, vegetative green impressions reminding of grass and herbs. This are the green flavors historically found in Bordeaux wines.

The 2005 leave green impressing from incomplete aromatic ripeness. These aromas are more like biting a green unripe apple. These are aromas historically found in new world wines, sometimes in Spanish wines. Both 2003 and 2005 seems to me have a lot of these.

Best
Fredrik Svensson, Luxembourg

ok, fredrik - at first i thought you were nuts - now i think i know what you are talking about. however, i haven't detected this problem in the 2005's - or really in bordeaux in general with the exception of the ones dominated by merlot. if i do smell the same thing you do, for me it is primarily a problem with merlot and frankly i never bother much with them anyway. i admit i haven't noticed it in cabernet based wines; but also i wasn't looking for it. thanks for the follow-up. i'm sure i will taste more and be on the lookout.

dale - you didn't ask my opinion; but i'll chime in anyway. when i went to the ugc tasting in chicago i did it with a list of what was actually available somewhere that i could afford and started with those. i then purchased the wines. here is what i purchased:
olivier
ferriere
poujeaux
malartic
rauzan gassies
lascombes - ok no bargain; but gosh its good
dauzac
d'armailhac
also wanted to purchase carbonnieux and d'angludet; but they were out of stock.
now would readily purchase liversan.
.

Thanks for tips. I have a couple of Carbonnieux and Dauzac ordered. Poujeaux has been near top of my list, but hard to find reasonably. B-21 in Florida lists it for $30, but they are out (they used to not ship, now do to some states, had arranged a CT friend to recieve, darn). I see Liversan is at a store in Patterson NJ, maybe I can swing by next tme I'm in Jersey (and check out the Garys in Wayne referenced in other thread).