Great wines made by winemakers without formal training?

Not too sure this has ever been discussed ... at least not that I can recall.

Roughly speaking, what proportion of the worlds "great wines" - i.e. well regarded wines with successful track records - have been, or are, made by winemakers who never actually studied oenology formally? I have no specific wines in mind; they could be Old World or New World in provenance, really, but would be acknowledged as being of undisputable quality if tasted by experienced wine drinkers.

We hear romantic stories of winemaking being passed down through generations, and often this takes the form of a marketing spin ... but how often is it actually the case with quality wines that that knowledge isn't derived from formal schooling?

Francois Naude became wine maker at L'Avenir Estate on the strength of his home made wine, which he showed the owner while building him a fireplace.

Francois was a chemist by training & career until a mid life crisis took him to the winelands.

Now one of SA's most respected winemakers...

[Robin Garr]

but how often is it actually the case with quality wines that that knowledge isn't derived from formal schooling?

Clarification, please, Paul.

If you're talking about wine makers who grow up in a winery family and learn the skills at home from their parents who learned it from their grandparents, I would say this is commonplace in Old World wineries and not unknown in the New. (Classic cases, for better or worse, might include the Gallos and, er, the Mondavis.)

If you're talking about someone who spent much of his or her life as, say, a hedge-fund manager or door-to-door vacuum-cleaner salesman suddenly deciding to start a winery and proving to have a magic touch, I would say this is much less likely. The wine business is full of people who came to wine from unexpected backgrounds (Rod Strong dancing in the Joffrey Ballet, Cecil DeLoach a San Francisco fire fighter, etc.), but I expect in most of those cases you will find they either had a long-term passion for wine and picked up a fair amount of knowledge along the way, and/or they own the winery but hire a competent wine maker to get his or her hands purple.

[David M. Bueker]

You can debate his wine style, but Brian Loring was a computer programmer for Raytheon who worked with folks at Cottonwood Canyon for 1 vintage before he struck out on his own. Certainly no formal schooling there.

In the history of wine, sin't formal training is the exception?

Aren't classroom style winemaking courses pretty new, didn't most people learn on the job?

As Jack Kellerman says elsewhere, it isn't difficult. 'If the Sumerians could do it, so can you'

I've had no formal training. Howie?

Perhaps a more interesting list might be (professional) wine critics without formal training.

Mike

Hi Paul,
My Great Aunt Fanny (God bless her soul) in 1994 before her 101st birthday told my father and I, “winemaking is in your (our) blood, make me a good glass of wine before I go”. Besides in 1994 it was getting harder and harder (on the east coast) to find our favorite “house red wine”, Segesta, a Sicilian red table wine imported by Banfi.

Salute

I've had no formal training. Howie?

Over 30 years working in chemical plants. However, as much as I've daydreamed about making the great leap to commercial winemaking, I know my limitations as a businessperson and, quite frankly, I think I'd be a bit intimidated trying to run a winery. I used to love photography. So much so, that I bought a 3-lens Hasselblad system, great darkroom equipment, etc. Then, for some reason I figured that I had to justify all those expenses, so I turned professional and had my own studio. Later I closed the studio, sold the equipment for more than I paid for it and freelanced for another studio for several years. I still appreciate good photography, but these days, it's an occasional snapshot with a digital camera. I'm afraid that if I made the great leap to commercial winemaking, the same thing would happen and I would get bored focusing on the bottom line, while giving away all the profits. Besides, getting back to the original point of this thread, I don't consider myself a great winemaker. There's a lot I don't know and what decent wines I have made over the years, I believe the credit should go to those who grew the grapes.

I think the early Oregon Wine Industry is a good example of that. In the 60's & 70's when things really started to get going, most "pioneers" were home wine-makers with a great passion and greater dreams. I talked with quite a few wine makers back then and most admitted they were just "flying by the seat of their pants". Many knew more than the average home wine maker, but they took what classes they could, and read tons of books on everything that mattered. At that time many vineyards were taken out because of site selection (it was a fast learning curve),and I am sure many barrels of wine never made it to the bottle. My formal training began on my first day as cellar rat for an early Oregon Winery, Hinman Vineyards. At least we had a lab (size of an average bathroom) and a library of books on wine making. I spent hours teaching myself on those cold winter months when all we did was baby sit the wine. Further north things were really happening, Eryie, Erath, Sokol Blosser, Adelsheim, these guys knew what they were doing, they were visionaries and knew the science of wine, and were very open and honest about their way of making wine and offering free advice. Such a great education. When I worked for Hinman I think there were around 30 wineries in the state. Not sure of the last count.

Michael

Hey, I was only kidding! I've had no formal training (true) but I'm also not a great winemaker (true). The great home winemakers to me are the ones whose wines are very good year after year. In my experience, they tend to be unusually careful in every step of the process (and probably in every step of everything else they do). Their cellars, benches and carboys are clean. They don't use the same syphoning tubes or air locks year after year, etc. The rest of us probably are a more impetuous lot, looser about cleanliness, prone to let things slide, and as a result more often disappointed. When I make good wine it's because the grapes/juice were very good and I did all the little things that take more time (using Fermaid as well as a yeast nutrient to avoid a stuck fermentation, topping off to the neck of the carboy after racking, adding sugar to the fermented wine judiciously after bench trials). Probably the most difficult part is getting good juice. In addition to the vagaries of the growing season, changes for the worse at some traditionally reliable juice plants can often take a couple of years to detect. It's also very tempting to buy from the guy nearby who might also be cheaper than to drive a hundred or more miles and pay more. Yet, some home winemakers seem to overcome all the obstacles and turn out a terrific product year after year. My hat is off to them.

It has always surprised me how many winemakers are in the business that don't have a degree in Enology or Fermentation Science. What sort of formal training out side of those two field would qualify as formal training? My theory is start with great grapes and don't make vinegar.

Perhaps a more interesting list might be (professional) wine critics without formal training.

Mike

Hmm. That WOULD be interesting.

Paul, doubt I ever produced great wine, but I started as a home winemaker, took a brief class to make sure I was doing things the right way, and then went into commercial winemaking (had I been smart, I would have asked Howie for advice, because I wound up doing exactly what he is afraid of doing ).

Anyway, along the way, I had to attend short course classes given by Cornell, to keep up, or I surely would have started a vinegar cult in the Finger Lakes...

...had I been smart, I would have asked Howie for advice, because I wound up doing exactly what he is afraid of doing . ...

A man's gotta know his limitations.

- Dirty Harry