1921 Liebfraumilch Spatlese...

First off I want to thank all the knowledgeable people on these forums. You insight and experience have provided the most useful information.
On another site I frequent "German Wine Estates-Wine club", a gentleman shared this "find" with us. So far no one has been able to get any history on the producer etc.
Any ideas?

Thanks Michael

Now that's an interesting and impressive bottle, Michael! Do you know anything about how it was "found"? The bottle seems to have been destined for export with the volume also given in pints and fl. ounces (the US, evidently). An amazing accuracy of the alcohol content too! I did not even know that the name Liebfraumilch existed in 1921. Let us know if something more is revealed about this bottle.
Cheers, Anders

Considering that Prohibition ran from 1920 to 1933, it is not possible that this was imported when the wine came to market in Germany - even assuming the wine's vintage is legit.

The next clue is the label. It is clearly an American label, not a German one, as the spelling "Rhine" is not used in Germany. It appears that the ink has a metalic sheen. Does anyone know when this type of ink began to be used on American wine labels?

My guess is that this is just the importer's blend and that the vintage is bogus. I would guess this is a late 50s to mid-60s concoction, and may in fact not even be 100% German.

In addition to Bernard's points, it seems strange to me that a wine from the Weimar Republic would be proclaiming its appointment by the German Emperor/King of Prussia.

In addition to Bernard's points, it seems strange to me that a wine from the Weimar Republic would be proclaiming its appointment by the German Emperor/King of Prussia.

Why? In general, European winemakers are not exactly thought of as being particularly modern in their politics?

But, even if there is lots of evidence that you have a "fake" wine of some sort, at least it is a piece of history of some sort!

According to the Noble Prize .Org website in 1928 at the Noble Prize Banquet Dinner the menu did include a 1924 Liebfraumilch Spatlese.

I also found this label:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... n%26sa%3DN

Salute

According to the Noble Prize .Org website in 1928 at the Noble Prize Banquet Dinner the menu did include a 1924 Liebfraumilch Spatlese.

I also found this label:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... n%26sa%3DN

Salute

Interesting, and this one is Mosel, not "Rhine."

Thanks Victor,
I snagged that one for my label collection. It looks like August Feldheim Sohne may have been a negociant (sp?) of German wines back in those days? Wow! a whopping 13 percent alcohol, from Zeltigen. This is starting to get good.....

Michael

Why? In general, European winemakers are not exactly thought of as being particularly modern in their politics?

No, and in any event I'm sure you are more up on European history. But I just figured that a winemaker in 20's Germany (where I think even the rightwingers were more interested in the return of a Bismark/Hindenberg strongman than a royalist revival) might leave off the seal for mercantile reasons. Especially if for English or American market as the English on label indicates- invoking Wilhelm wouldn't be good marketing after Argonne/Ypres/Somme etc.

Considering that Prohibition ran from 1920 to 1933, it is not possible that this was imported when the wine came to market in Germany - even assuming the wine's vintage is legit.

The next clue is the label. It is clearly an American label, not a German one, as the spelling "Rhine" is not used in Germany. It appears that the ink has a metalic sheen. Does anyone know when this type of ink began to be used on American wine labels?

My guess is that this is just the importer's blend and that the vintage is bogus. I would guess this is a late 50s to mid-60s concoction, and may in fact not even be 100% German.

I would suspect that the wine was exported to England, not the US, which might also explain the reference to the King of Prussia since the Hohenzollerns were distant relations to the House of Hanover.

Mark Lipton

Hi A couple of comments:

- on the history of Liebfraumilch, see here. As of 1908, it was sort of liberalized so it is not surprising to find bottles.
- as Mark Lipton suggested: this is most likely an import into the UK that was later imported by a US company. It is also not surprising that the same company offers wines from the whole of Germany: catalogs from the period show that you would get zeltinger mosel, hochheimer hock, Johannisberger, etc.
- finally, a Zeltinger with 13% by volume from the 1911 vintage does not surprise me: 1911 is a "vintage of the century" and it is not written naturrein on the label: highly likely that it was chaptalized.

(Thanks Michael for showing this old bottle - it is always great to see such things!)

Bernard Roth wrote;
Considering that Prohibition ran from 1920 to 1933, it is not possible that this was imported when the wine came to market in Germany - even assuming the wine's vintage is legit.

Are we assuming that the very “influential” people of the era did not (or make attempts to) obtain the wines they were “accustomed” to drinking. The term “by special appointment” at the top of the label is of interest, looks like a modern-day “signature” label. Possibly the wine was brought into the US by the commissioned merchant and importers, de Fremery & Co, of San Francisco, for a “special” event or occasion (business, political, diplomatic, scholastic, or other).

Salute

During prohibition, not even special events were permitted to have wine. An importer could not have brought it in, or would not have owned up to it. As I said, if such a wine existed back then, it would have been imported after 1933.