Another not-so-dry Finger Lakes Dry Riesling

I noted earlier that Weimer's ‘06 Dry Riesling actually contains between 1 and 2 % RS. An '06 Red Newt Dry Riesling that tasted a little sweet the other night was also between 1 and 2 % RS. Red Newt acknowledges that fermentation was stopped before completion and unfermented Riesling added back in. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes you wonder how much sugar is in any dry wine from the Finger Lakes.

Dan, I've had the same thoughts on many an occasion. It's also quite hard to find a '0' Riesling here in Ontario - most are at least '1' and then go up from there.

Personally, I get particularly irked by the increasing number of reds with x grams of r.s. nowadays. That internationalized Pinotage I recently had was palpably sweet. Darn it, if I want Port, I'll get Port ...

i spoke at some length at the finger lakes wine competition wilth bob madill from sheldrake about this. he is on the board of the new riesling foundation. he knows that this issue of RS and riesling needs to be resolved; as does sean o'keefe from here in MI. there are more than 20 dry and near dry rieslings here in MI and we have some trouble of course convincing consumers that there really is such a thing. it is very damaging when one that is labeled dry isn't - then the consumer can say with some justification " see i told you that riesling was sweet".it probably stems from the old addage that people talk dry and drink sweet. and this labeling is a marketers idea of how to sell more by playing to that situation.

in ontario, the rules on sugar and other matters have been enshrined in law by the legislature. that will never happen in the US. we have the notion here the the buyer should beware and government should promote business - not the interests of consumers. the odd thing is that both democrats and republicans seem pretty happy with that by and large.

I swear this is the last time I am going to post the following, in the hope that maybe the light bulb will go on for one of you guys.

The word to describe wine should be "BALANCE."

If some of those Rieslings you complain about as not having been dry were below 1 % RS you'd probably complain that they are undrinkable, and that's because of their acidity. Plus, to most people accustomed to sugar in food and wine (I'm not talking about wine geeks) 2% RS may not seem sweet at all, especially when the acidity is .8 %.

Rather than try to determine what constitutes a dry wine by the level or lack of sugar, my view is that the industry should stop using the word dry to describe wine--just describe its balance.

ummm - jeeez - where do i start. we currently use terms like dry, off-dry, semi-dry, semi-sweet and sweet. you propose describing the 'balance'. so that would go ....... how? unbalanced(that will sell well), semi-balanced(better), 'a well balanced wine'. sorry, i don't get how using fomrs of 'balanced' improves on the dry/sweet continuum. AND you have to do this on the front label. so, Dry Riesling becomes ?????? Semi-Dry Riesling becomes ?????? besides, the system has to apply to more than riesling - e.g. gewurztraminer - where acid isn't a problem.

wines can be balanced and dry, or balanced and sweet. we still need to know what they will drink well with; or at the very least whether they are balanced in a way we personally enjoy. hoorah for balance; but it doesn't solve the problem.

ummm - jeeez - where do i start. we currently use terms like dry, off-dry, semi-dry, semi-sweet and sweet. you propose describing the 'balance'. so that would go ....... how? unbalanced(that will sell well), semi-balanced(better), 'a well balanced wine'. sorry, i don't get how using fomrs of 'balanced' improves on the dry/sweet continuum. AND you have to do this on the front label. so, Dry Riesling becomes ?????? Semi-Dry Riesling becomes ?????? besides, the system has to apply to more than riesling - e.g. gewurztraminer - where acid isn't a problem.

wines can be balanced and dry, or balanced and sweet. we still need to know what they will drink well with; or at the very least whether they are balanced in a way we personally enjoy. hoorah for balance; but it doesn't solve the problem.

"besides, the system has to apply to more than riesling"
I thought the subject of the thread was Riesling.

What problem are you trying to solve?

If you are trying to use one word to tell consumers whether or not a wine is dry, you'll first have to create a better way to establish what dry means other than the catch-all "lack of sugar." The fact is, the sensation of dryness is governed by acidity and tannin--sugar offsets it, but doesn't have anything to do with it being there. Many consumer palates couldn't tell you where dry ends and sweet begins, especially in wines that undergo various winemaking techniques, like ML for one. That's because using a one-word identifier that doesn't fit a multi-dimensional situation isn't sufficient.

In this case, thinking creatively is necessary--thinking in the same old way is futile; it's the reason we keep having this discussion.

look, we all know about all these things. nothing new here except a few exagerations such as that ML has a significant effect on perceived dryness. suggestions please! helpful ones.

look, we all know about all these things. nothing new here except a few exagerations such as that ML has a significant effect on perceived dryness. suggestions please! helpful ones.

Goodbye, David.

dan, i just belatedly realized that when i talked with bob madill on this subject it was exactly this wiemer wine that prompted the discussion. this is quite a lovely wine btw. it was at a reception and the first wine to disappear. at the same time there was a dry riesling from atwater - that was almost as good and really was dry. so, they do exist.

dan, i just belatedly realized that when i talked with bob madill on this subject it was exactly this wiemer wine that prompted the discussion. this is quite a lovely wine btw. it was at a reception and the first wine to disappear. at the same time there was a dry riesling from atwater - that was almost as good and really was dry. so, they do exist.

David,
I also thought the Wiemer was excellent. Amateur competitions typically define dry as < 1.0 and I notice in my own Rieslings that they have better mouth feel without being sweet when just below 1.0. So I'm not advocating bone dry in order to be labeled Dry, but when something is labeled Dry and tastes sweet even to my crude palate something is wrong.

Dan

agreed. and we can all agree with tom that balance is critical at every sugar level. but we still need some semblance of truth on the labels - something we are unlikely to get in america outside of a (voluntary) quality alliance rule for specific regions. for riesling i would agree with your 1% number - and for vignoles as well. but 1% in a chardonnay is usually another matter - though that said, we sometimes do get pretty astronomical acid levels even on chardonnay. so, i don't really want to get to wierd about this; but i think that calling 1.5% RS dry would almost always count as 'predatory' labeling.

I guess taste is a matter of indivdual preferrence..I have never found Hermann's Dry Reisling to taste sweet..not dry either, sorta in between..That said, it has been my favorite FL reisling in more years than not so I don't get too bent out of shape re labelling..I just pour and enjoy what is in the bottle..Will let the uber geeks and comeptition drinkers/winemakers sweat the small stuff..

In this case, thinking creatively is necessary--thinking in the same old way is futile; it's the reason we keep having this discussion.

Creative thinking is one thing, but do you really propose 'balanced' as a useful term for distinguishing between TBA and Kabinett? As mentioned above, both can be balanced when done properly. Surely something else (sugar?) distinguishes them.

In this case, thinking creatively is necessary--thinking in the same old way is futile; it's the reason we keep having this discussion.

Creative thinking is one thing, but do you really propose 'balanced' as a useful term for distinguishing between TBA and Kabinett? As mentioned above, both can be balanced when done properly. Surely something else (sugar?) distinguishes them.

Rahsaan,

I never proposed any such thing to be used on a label. Describing the wine's balance is not the same thing as using the word "balanced" to describe the wine.