Question about wine

I have a general question about wine. I hope you could answer the question for me, as extensive as possible. This question is a part of a research for a class at the Academy of Art University, San Francisco, CA.

What are you looking for in a wine? What makes you like a wine, what is important to you in a wine? Be as expressive as possible in your answer.

Thanks in advance for you answers,
Ester Pellis

I have a general question about wine. I hope you could answer the question for me, as extensive as possible. This question is a part of a research for a class at the Academy of Art University, San Francisco, CA.What are you looking for in a wine? What makes you like a wine, what is important to you in a wine? Be as expressive as possible in your answer.Thanks in advance for you answers,Ester Pellis

This is a tough one to answer for most folks on this forum because it would require a huge amount of writing. Not to be facetious at all, but if you were to cut and paste much of the Oxford Companion to Wine tome in this space, it would not be too much information. People who are serious about wine are looking for everything about it.

For serious wine lovers, wine is an art form as important and expressive as art, literature or music. Your question would be like asking an art lover what he loves about art. Answerable, but not appropriate or easy in the space of a forum thread. Some members with the skill of perfect terseness might take a whack at it. Good luck. Or you could peruse Amazon under wine and grab a book in which someone addresses the topic as closely as possible.

Covert - thanks for taking a stab at this. The questions are so general I was tongue-tied. A simple answer for me would be is that I'm usually l wondering how well a given wine will pair up with a given food or menu, but I think that is a bit too simple.

I was tongue-tied too when I first saw the title! It is tough enough trying to decide shall I shovel or shall I put the duck in the oven!!

It`s like asking me why I enjoy bird-watching? Er, well perhaps not. A Rough-legged Hawk is a R-l H, a bottle of Malbec is a lot different than a bottle of Shiraz. Aagh heck, I`m going back to bed!!!

With my apologies to the Unites States Supreme Court: "I can't describe good wine, but I know it when I taste it."

Thank you for your answers. I would like to explain why I posted this question. I purposely asked a vague, subjective question. I am not looking for the one right answer or the majority opinion; I want to know which words wine enthusiasts use to describe their passion.

This forum discussion is part of a research that includes quantitative (survey) and qualitative methods (one-on-one interviews, focus groups). The research is about South African wines. I would like to ask you a second question:

South African wines are fairly unknown in the United States. Do you think South African wines have a chance in the American market?

South African wines are fairly unknown in the United States. Do you think South African wines have a chance in the American market?

Ester, I get a kick out of your questions. I see South African wines everywhere, even in mountain restaurants. They are already widely well received, I believe. I stick to certain French wines most of the time, but when I stray, I sometimes enjoy South African wines. They are a little more interesting to me than many similarly priced wines from other places, such as California and Australia. Sometimes the term funky is used to describe interesting flavors in maybe less than the very best wines. I find some South African wines to be delightfully funky.

[Jenise]

I have a general question about wine. I hope you could answer the question for me, as extensive as possible. This question is a part of a research for a class at the Academy of Art University, San Francisco, CA.

What are you looking for in a wine? What makes you like a wine, what is important to you in a wine? Be as expressive as possible in your answer.

Thanks in advance for you answers,
Ester Pellis

Question #1: I am looking for expressive, well-made wines that have distinct personalities. I keep a modestly large cellar so that I can own many different wines and monitor their progress over time. Wine is not only interesting because of what's in the glass at the moment, but because of the larger experience of comparing that wine with other prior bottles of the same and different vintages.
Question #2 and #3: What makes me like a wine are first and foremost complexity and balance. I tend to not find those qualities in wines that have high alcohol levels, that are made with American oak (although there are exceptions), and most red wines made for immediate consumption rather than aging. I especially prize highly aromatic, medium-bodied wines that evolve in the glass.

Thank you for your answers, you have been a great help!

Ester,
Like you, I'm new to this site. But I'm retired, and have way too much time on my hands. So, I could probably wine babble long enough to put you to sleep on the question why I have made wine a part of my life for more than forty years. However, your second question, about the wines of South Africa, interests me much more.
In a nutshell, SA wines are actually doing quite well here. I read that sales of these wines are increasing at a rate faster than wine generally, which is significant because the United States is now the greatest wine consuming country on the planet, passing France & Italy sometime this year. The best selling SA wine is Goats do Roam, a very pleasant blend, made by a company that is a "second label" of Fairview, a very fine old grape growing estate owned by Charles Back, that started bottling their own wines about forty years ago. Now, the Fairview companies export around the world, and, oddly, the Goats do Roam red bag-in-a-box is the best selling wine in Norway. For some strange reason, the 3 Liter Bag-in-a-box is only sold in Oklahoma here in the States!
I am a fan of South African wines, and look for new ones I haven't tried, and some of the old classics that are now available here after the political changes that brought SA back into the international fold. The country is the eighth or ninth largest wine producing nation, and has a vigerous export industry. The most interesting grape is Pinotage, a cross developed in the 20's. I believe it is the only grape deliberately bred by man that, standing alone, can make truly great wine.

well ester, here goes. but i should tell you that there are truly great books written about this - you don't need to ask a bunch of yahoos like us. one writer used the word 'vernacular' to describe a positive quality in wines. another refered to 'somewhereness'. in france the key word is 'typicity'; and all these are related. many of us want wines that are 'authentic' - 'wines of place' - wines that scream where they are from and not another place. wines actually do this - or at least the most interesting do. it is possible to obscure the 'somewhereness' of a wine and it is done more and more in recent years as vernacular wines have given way to internationally styled wines - wines that taste like they were made from a recipe book or by a marketing department. there are, as you might have guessed, some caveats to the above; but.....

South African wines are fairly unknown in the United States. Do you think South African wines have a chance in the American market?

This won't be of any help to you - sorry - but I'm in the UK and South African wines from the Western Cape area particularly are quite popular in the 'every-day drinking' price range.

Cheers, Dave C.

South African wines [...] are a little more interesting to me than many similarly priced wines from other places, such as California and Australia. Sometimes the term funky is used to describe interesting flavors in maybe less than the very best wines. I find some South African wines to be delightfully funky.

My thoughts exactly.

For years I've touted the line that South African reds marry the best of both worlds: opulent, warm-climate fruit AND a stern, minerally/funky elegance.

Of course, I prefer the old-style non-made-over SA reds - we could still get those in Ontario in the late 1990s - e.g. Libertas Pinotage, Zonnebloem Pinotage. I miss them.

[Robin Garr]

funky elegance.

Curious question, Paul: I like elegance in wines, and I don't mind funky wines, at least within reason. But it would never have occurred to me to link "funky" and "elegant" in a single sample. Aren't these terms a bit antithetical?

funky elegance.

Curious question, Paul: I like elegance in wines, and I don't mind funky wines, at least within reason. But it would never have occurred to me to link "funky" and "elegant" in a single sample. Aren't these terms a bit antithetical?

Not at all, not to me. There is a sort of no-nonsense maturity, a sternness that takes some warming up to at first, in the aromas of some of those older-style SA reds that definitely speaks of elegance to me. Certainly I don't think of internationalized wines as elegant, but "forwardly outgoing" - easy, you might say. An old-style SA wine to me is like a reserved stately person: They may not be immediately friendly but once you understand them you see beyond immediate impressions and come to a more mature appreciation of their character.

Could just be that we're using the same language to mean different things, though.

[Robin Garr]

There is a sort of no-nonsense maturity, a sternness that takes some warming up to at first, in the aromas of some of those older-style SA reds that definitely speaks of elegance to me.

Well ... okay, but I was really asking a broader question, triggered by your emotional response to South African wines but not limited to them.

You spoke of "funky elegance."

I questioned whether "funky" and "elegant" are not a bit oxymoronic when taken together.

Your response, while impassioned, doesn't really communicate to me. Are you saying that "funky" and "no-nonsense maturity ... sternness" are synonyms?

"Funky," in the first definition at wordnet.princeton.edu, means {fetid: offensively malodorous; "a foul odor"; "the kitchen smelled really funky"}

In wine geek terms, most of us use "funky," I think, to refer to the range of earthy aromas that cover "barnyard" and "animal" - Brett, typically, and perhaps some varietal/terroir characters that seem similar. I love a little of that myself, but generally speaking would not rate a wine containing them as high on the "elegance" meter. And it's hard for me to see what earthy and organic have to do with "no-nonsense maturity" or "sternness." "Stern" strikes me as a workable, if somewhat vague, descriptor for a young, tannic Cabernet. I'm not quite sure how "no-nonsense" and "mature" fit together.

[David M. Bueker]

I would never broadly refer to South African wines as "funky." There's a certain grape I might apply that to (care to guess which one?), but not as a general proposition. There's a whole lot of South African wines out there that are approachable, food friendly and not remotely funky (either in aroma or style).

As for the original questions:

1. More often than not I am looking for a wine that provides me more than an alcohol delivery system (though the last 2 days of work have me looking for an alcohol delivery system). I lvoe the way wine smells and tastes, but it's more than that to me. There's context and meaning, and typicity or at least some level of typicity is critical for my enjoyment. I think that's why my tastes have settled to Riesling and Burgundian Pinot Noir (for the most part). More often than not I can place a bottle of Riesling or Burgundy in context and have it take me on a journey in much the same way a good book can do. "Ah, so this is Chambolle..."

2. South African wines have more than a chance. They are at least initially established. If they continue to provide value (lucky for us the Rand is as weak as the Dollar) while also branching out beyond things like Goats du Roam in international distribution things will be fine.

Are you saying that "funky" and "no-nonsense maturity ... sternness" are synonyms?

No. They aren't the same, but can be found coexisting in a given wine: e.g. some wines, by contrast, can be funky but not especially "hard" or astringent.

And it's hard for me to see what earthy and organic have to do with "no-nonsense maturity" or "sternness." "Stern" strikes me as a workable, if somewhat vague, descriptor for a young, tannic Cabernet.

Sternness, in the way I use the word, speaks very directly to the leathery, bretty / bitter style of old SA reds - the ones that don't appeal to modern tastes. I can hear the familiar refrain coming but will just say that I hold it to be a matter of taste and don't intend to split hairs on the issue anymore.

I'm not quite sure how "no-nonsense" and "mature" fit together.

Well, as one matures, I like to think that the nonsense of immediate gratification becomes less and less appealling ...

I have a general question about wine. I hope you could answer the question for me, as extensive as possible. This question is a part of a research for a class at the Academy of Art University, San Francisco, CA.

What are you looking for in a wine? What makes you like a wine, what is important to you in a wine? Be as expressive as possible in your answer.

Thanks in advance for you answers,
Ester Pellis

Hi Ester,
Have you thought about how you would answer the question yourself, assuming that you partake in a glass of wine occasionally.

Think about what you like in wine? Is it the taste, the buzz of the alcohol or because it's important to be seen as trendy thus you must have a glass of champers in your hand at a social gathering?

What makes you like a wine? Some of the answers could be the same, e.g. the taste, the buzz of the alcohol. There is also the social interaction or the extra dimension wine can add to a food experience.

What is important about wine? Perhaps the answers are again the same, with the price also being a factor. Going back to number 2, it's easy to like a wine at a low price point that fulfils all your expectations.

Personally what I like about wine is that it is a never ending journey of discovery.

I suggest you read this posting elsewhere on the forum - Reflections of being a Wine Geek.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15305.

Regards,
Sue Courtney

Hi Ester,

Wow, that is a big question for a wine lover. The answer is so complex and to a degree unexplainable, that it will never get answered completely. But I will give you the top things that come to mind.

I love two types of wines: big and subtle, but primarily wines that go well with food and are balanced. 95% of the wine I drink is with a meal. If a wine does not match well with food it is not good.

I look for big red wines with expressive noses, layers of flavours, and a long and interesting finish. Big wines have taste and palate feel (often called full bodied) that expresses very well.

I look for seamless wines, that means the wine gives me continuous pleasureable sensations from my first impressions of its color, then its nose, palate, taste, and on through to the final notes of the finish.

I love acidic but balanced wines, especially rieslings because they are such great palate cleansers and they go well with food.

I am a pinotphile (that means I love wines made from pinot noir grapes). I look for pinot noirs that have great noses and subtle tastes and finish with finesse. But, mostly I love pinot because they are probably the most food friendly red wine, in my opinion.

I love red wines the most but I also drink some whites, roses, sparkling, and dessert wines. Each has its own desirable qualities, but all must go with food for me to really like them.

Perhaps, like the delightfully ephemeral female esters of wine, Our Ester, the Wine Lover, is a deistic figment of the acids and alcohols of our minds: our alter ego to whom we describe our deepest oenophilic joys. We may have a burning hearth in our soul, but that doesn’t mean Ester has any obligation to sit by it. She saw a puff of smoke rising from our collective chimney and frolicked on her merry way. We can cut off our ear, continue to write, eternally in votive waiting—like the passionate old man who buys a million dollar yacht hoping for just one young girl who actually wants to cruise, to find none, only the mailman.