Restaurants and letting wine breathe

To me, allowing a red wine to breathe is as important as serving temperature. Sometimes, allowing the wine to breath for more than an hour is best. At home, of course, this presents no problem whatsoever. But it occurs to me that, in my experience, the vast majority of restaurants, even the very best ones, do not allow for breathing and they don't even have a proper carafe/decanter in which to let a wine breathe. I suppose I could order a bottle ASAP after being seated with little regard for what may or may be ordered but here again, the wine would most likely simply be sitting in the bottle with only a half a square inch in contact with the air. I'd be very interested to know what others have experienced is in this regard.

I'd be very interested to know what others have experienced is in this regard.

All the more reason why a good list is hard to build.

I.E. wines that will be good shortly after opening.

And, all the more reason why I don't look to drink wine in restaurants very often..

Some restaurants have online wine list available to be perused by would be diners. Or, one can request the list to be faxed or emailed in advance of the dinner. In such cases, and this may apply to a few but not all restaurants, the customer can call in and will be asked to supply his/her credit card number such that his/her wine of choice may be decanted a few hours ahead of the reservation.

Ramon

Some restaurants have online wine list available to be perused by would be diners. Or, one can request the list to be faxed or emailed in advance of the dinner. In such cases, and this may apply to a few but not all restaurants, the customer can call in and will be asked to supply his/her credit card number such that his/her wine of choice may be decanted a few hours ahead of the reservation.

Ramon

Ramon,
The only real answer to the problem is the one you say above, however, there is still a problem which can rear it's head. Unless the restaurant has someone who knows what he is doing, then you might decant a wine that you simply can not drink for one reason or another. I suppose the only answer is to show up at least several hours in advance and be present at the decanting. And, of course one can not always do this. I guess the answer is that you pay your money, and you take your chances.

Ramon's is a good suggestion, and I've done it once for a special occasion. It was at a place with top notch wine service (Crabtree's Kittle) and I had no fears re a corked or substandard bottle.

In more normal circumstances, I just choose my wine with breathing in mind. I don't tend to choose wines that I feel would need a lot of air. It of course makes a difference where you are dining. A casual restaurant where I expect to be out in an hour is different from a more upscale place where I am ordering multiple courses or a tasting menu. I might order a bottle at the latter and observe over 3 hours than I would never think of ordering at the former establishment.

In general I've given up on restaurants for wine.

Almost always, it's massively overpriced, with a poor selection, suffering appalling storage conditions.

I may have a glass of something cheap and straightforward (relatively speaking that is) or a beer or a water. Only if there's a group of us (where I need to curb my frustration) will I generally go for a bottle or two.

Ramon's suggestion is a good one, and the only real alternative (in restaurants that don't have you on the high-speed conveyor for the next sitting) is to drink the wine slowly, letting it breathe in the decanter or the glass.

For me, fine wine is very much an at home / at friends houses experience. It's a shame as I do enjoy eating out and there is a much better QPR on food. We eat better when we go out, but drink better when we're at home.

regards

Ian

I love drinking good wine in restaurants. I patronise places that don't charge too much for their wine, and that take wine seriously (that have good glassware, in particular; perhaps decanters if necessary). I cook a lot too, but sometimes I want to have it done for me (besides, they're better at it than I am).

Order some white to start, have them open the red as soon as it's ordered, don't worry about it.

I guess I ought to give exceptions...
I 've found Australia (with widespread BYO) and Italy (with on the whole less aggressive markups) offer options to drink of the same standard we would at home.

I agree with others here
it is either
1) call ahead and ask them to decant a particular wine you know they have, or you want brought in for you (any half decent resto will do that for a regular customer), or
2) only drink "cheap and cheerful" wines from their list - I always drink cheap at restos (the cheapest wine I know I like that goes with my food) and save fancy wine drinking for home, sommelier/wine geek get togethers, and special private events where I'm not paying a mark-up, or I am being paid to host a dinner/tasting!

As I often entertain clients for dinner, there is absolutely no way of getting to have bottles opened prior to arrival cuz I generally let my clients do the wine picking (and its incredible that in general, they are more kind to your expense account than you would be....maybe I have nice clients). Having said that, when I go out for special dinners, I do call ahead to have them open a wine first (generally at restaurants that know me) and provide my credit card to purchase in advance. Otherwise for other occasions, I'll see if they have a decanter and a funnel and I'll have them double decant. Not the best but when you have a great bunch of friends for dinner, sometimes it doesn't matter. I'll save the geek stuff for me .... at home.... alone..... err...did that sound a bit lonely??

Oh, drinking alone is perfectly socially acceptable amongst us wine lovers

this whole breathing thing is a bit of a moot point for me, since I understand most wines (I don't know - 75-90%?) consumed at restaurants here are under $40 on the list, this under $15 at the liquor store, which means breathing is largely irrelevant.

unless you are of the camp that says all wine should be decanted

I met a fairly well know wine writer when i was in germany who said all german riesling benefits from rough decanting, so...

do any of you decant your young fruity wines? (not counting the sulphury ones!;)

Hi Craig,
A few years back our group did a semi-blind tasting of wines that were
a) opened and poured
b) fully decanted
c) opened a few hours earlier but not decanted.
Three wines, three treatments, 9 glasses.
The full thing was written up on the old Discussion group.
But in simple terms - the 'open and pour' version was preferred in all cases (OK it tied for first in 1 of the samples).
Can't find the details - so you'll have to trust me! Now we only ever decant for sediment.

I was in a restaurant Sunday night that I thought handled it well. Once everybody had at least narrowed their dining choice to a class of food (3 red meat eaters and one seared tuna) we ordered a Pinot, before we even had the appetizers. The wine service brought the wine, opened it, I tried it, then they decanted it back at the bar. We took our time to order, lingered over the appetizer, and by the time we had dinner it had at least 4 minutes in a real decanter. Also, Sunday night every bottle on the list is 1/2 price, meaning just about exactly the retail price. The restaurant was Kincaid's, in Carmel, Indiana. It is a national chain with a sister restaurant, Palomino's. And as an aside, Costco has $100 gift cards for $80. Not bad- 1/2 price wine and then 20% of everything. Their wine list, by the way, is here- http://www.r-u-i.com/pdf/menus/Kincaids ... Dinner.pdf

But in simple terms - the 'open and pour' version was preferred in all cases (OK it tied for first in 1 of the samples).

Very interesting, Alan, and worth further exploration on my part.
I also want to thank all the other opinions expressed as a result of my query - Quite a range of ideas and experiences and a lot for me to think about.

Hi Craig,
A few years back our group did a semi-blind tasting of wines that were
a) opened and poured
b) fully decanted
c) opened a few hours earlier but not decanted.
Three wines, three treatments, 9 glasses.
The full thing was written up on the old Discussion group.
But in simple terms - the 'open and pour' version was preferred in all cases (OK it tied for first in 1 of the samples).
Can't find the details - so you'll have to trust me! Now we only ever decant for sediment.

I'd love to duplicate this with some friends.

i think it depends a lot on wine style. I drink mainly Canadian, German, Italian and French wine, which are somewhat high in the acid department. Maybe that has an effect? And I only decant big tannic reds that we should really be holding longer, mainly Bordeaux. Or for sediment.

But I'd say the decanting is meaningless unless the wine is left for a fairly long time - a few hours maybe, for tannic reds. Sometimes we decant big tannic reds (that are too young to be drinking, really) and they taste better after 24 or 48 HOURS
I recall a 2002 or 2003 Osoyoos Larose (BC Bordueax blend for those who haven't had it) that we had after 48 hours and it was coming around.

I'm curious about the riesling decanting thing though. I want to try it.

as for opening and not decanting - that would have no effect other than not getting the initial smell from what's in the airspace. Why would it? there is a 2 cm disc of wine being exposed to air. Did anyone think that would change a wine?

just use the magic breathable glass!