That would be me, then!

Better late than never, I bought Gold's book on building a wine cellar. Interestingly, he's enough of a contrarian that whatever mistakes I thought I'd made in the early stages turn out to be correct by his standards. Anyway, I just came across this:

"If you stock up with scores of solo bottles, then whatever you select to drink will be the last of its kind, leaving you reluctant to open anything."

Yep, that's me alright! Am I the only one?

Tony

Well, I don't know about the reluctance. But I am "guilty" of buying a lot of singles (and 2/3s, as opposed to cases). There are just sooooooo many wines I want to buy, so if I want to buy a case of 2005 Burgundy I'm much more like to buy 3 bottles of Pavelot Guettes, 3 Pavelot Dominode, 3 Drouhin Chambolles, and 3 Bitouzet=Prieure Volnays than a case of any one. If I drink one young, still leaves me 2. But I do have lots of solo bottles. I try not to think in terms of "my last one."

Orphans are shown no mercy at Casa Redwinger.

[David M. Bueker]

I have had dinner with Gold (the Mote Bello vertical I posted on late last November). The centerpieces of the tasting were solo bottles of older bottles of Monte that he had purchased and cellared (back to '75). The wines were great. He's a hoot.

Like others, I buy lots of ones and twos. Doesn't bother me to drain a solo unless it is part of a verticle of solo's. Something I am trying to stop doing. However, my wife has a serious problem with the last of anything if it can not be easily replaced and since I share all the good stuff with her we have a growing backlog of bottles that we can't drink since we can't replace them.

Eventually I get to them but it can take a while to convince her that its time. Holidays and other celebrations with wine loving friends is where most of them finally get opened.

[David M. Bueker]

Those orphan bottles are what I pull out for family & dear friends (and some geeks I meet on the internet).

When I started creating a cellar, I would buy in case or half case lots. If the wine was hard to get or inordinately expensive (I won't tell you what the price level for this was back then as you'd only laugh), I might buy 3 of a given wine.

The philosophy (yes, I DO think about these things) was that I'd have one bottle to try relatively early on, another to try based on the estimate I made from the experience of opening the first one, and one final bottle to either take a last shot at hitting the target (which was always the drinking plateau for a mature wine), or if I had already done that with the 2nd bottle, to hang onto for a fully mature experience after a few more years (or possibly to include in verticals).

That philosophy has stood me in good stead as I can pull verticals of quite a few wines (I like verticals. Hmm - I also like horizontals. And I'm working on diagonals....)

Sometimes I build a vertical with the intention of doing a whole dinner tasting from my cellar, and then once done the 'orphans' are on the block to be opened whenever the mood strikes me. I have done 2 extensive Sassicaia verticals, for instance, and won't attempt it again, so we are pulling an 88 and 83 for dinner Friday - I don't 'need' them as potential vertical components any more.

I have a marked disinclination to buy anything in single bottle quantity, because if you like it, you won't have another one, and if you don't like it, you've blown your money - either way a negative experience, although I suppose the scenario where you don't like it and can congratulate yourself for NOT acquiring 2 or more might offset that. But with a bit of study, a canny buyer seldom finds himself in that position.

I don't have a choice but to but singles as I only have a 56 bottle cellar.

I have around 30 bottles sitting as the longer term collection and the rest of the space is used for the day-to-day stuff.

I have no problem opening a single as I tend to replace the ones I drink with another that I'll hang on to.

I do on occasion pick up 6 or so bottles of something is the price is right and it offers a good value and see how it changes as I consume them over a couple of years...I last did this with my cheapo-but-good Chateau Tellagh as the last of the 1998s were on the shelf with the 2002s that had just arrived. I bought the last 6 and I have 1 left. I plan to do an el-cheapo vertical with the last 95 and 98 I have plus the current 2002. It's not Lafite, but...

[quote="David P.G."]I don't have a choice but to but singles as I only have a 56 bottle cellar.

I have around 30 bottles sitting as the longer term collection and the rest of the space is used for the day-to-day stuff.
quote]


That brings up another question, David. Your cellar is what I'd call a current drinking cellar even though it has a few bottles you've held awhile.

The question is, what size of cellar (in terms of numbers of bottles) does one need to have some depth in the collection. While narrow scope cellars (e.g. someone that only collects Alsatian wines , or ports) might be smaller, I have found that a cellar of about 1500 bottles (that's 20-25 rows of cases stacked 6 high) takes on a sustainable life of its own, although I've seen very decent cellars as low as half that.

What do others think about minimum cellar size - at what point does it become a CELLAR (or collection, if you will, not just a few cases of miscellaneous wine.

Think I'll maybe start another thread on that.

I buy most of my wine in singles, doubles and triples--rarely six of the same wine or a mixed case with 6-8 of one variety and 4-6 of another from the same producer. I do sometimes hesitate to open a bottle that I can't replace but I like to have a wide variety in my wine collection. My last mixed case was four bottles of a basic Rioja from Heredad de Baroja, four bottles of the '95 Gran Reserva from the same producer, and four bottles of the '98 Gran Reserva. I did a half-case of a 2000 Bordeaux on futures but rarely commit to that many of one selection.

The question is, what size of cellar (in terms of numbers of bottles) does one need to have some depth in the collection. While narrow scope cellars (e.g. someone that only collects Alsatian wines , or ports) might be smaller, I have found that a cellar of about 1500 bottles (that's 20-25 rows of cases stacked 6 high) takes on a sustainable life of its own, although I've seen very decent cellars as low as half that.

What do others think about minimum cellar size - at what point does it become a CELLAR (or collection, if you will, not just a few cases of miscellaneous wine.

Think I'll maybe start another thread on that.

Good questions. I think of my "cellar" (two offsite storage units) as bottles tucked away until they mature in relation to my palate. Bottles in my two wine fridges at home keep the wine at a nice drinking temperature in addition to protecting them from the four months when the temperature in my house could harm the wine (June-September, we dont have central a/c).

In regards to numbers or size of a cellar/collection, I think that ultimately depends on what you enjoy and how often you enjoy them. Unfortunately, in my case, I like just about anything that tastes good .

For something I've never tried before I just get one bottle - unless I really trust a recommendation, from a friend or something, then I get up to a case. If I really like it and the price is right - I'll get a case. Everyday wines like Bogle Merlot, at least a case at a time. Other wines usually three at a time. I do hate finishing the last of a particular wine but no matter how many I buy, there's always going to be a 'last one'. What I really like is taking several of the same wine to dinner at someone's home, that way I don't have to pretend that I wanted to do a comparative tasting when I bring three different wines simply because I didn't have three of the same kind.

Something I know that I really like, I'll buy three or four. For experimentation, I buy one or two and I open singles with wild abandon. As Dale said, there are just too many wines that I want to try.

I open singles with wild abandon.

I think I know her sister, Gay Abandon.......

Orphans are shown no mercy at Casa Redwinger.

Way to go, 'Winger! Orphans face the firing squad at Chez Kirsch as well.

I have a marked disinclination to buy anything in single bottle quantity, because if you like it, you won't have another one, and if you don't like it, you've blown your money - either way a negative experience, although I suppose the scenario where you don't like it and can congratulate yourself for NOT acquiring 2 or more might offset that. But with a bit of study, a canny buyer seldom finds himself in that position.

Most of the wines I buy in single bottle quantity to cellar are ones that I have tasted, either at a commercial tasting or an offline. Or they are "restocks" of particular favorites when I see I can buy a mature bottle for same price as the 2005.

I had much the same problem with not wanting to drink the "last" single of any wines in my cellar. I really didn't like to drink anything in my cellar. It just was to look at. Then something happened. My cousin passed away and we found lots of singles in his cellar that were just to special, in his opinion, to drink (or the occasion didn't merit the wine). We drank those wines in his honor, with memories of him.

It has changed my prospective on hording . I now consume the singles, as well as everything else in the cellar. Life's too short.

Not trying to be a bummer, just a life changing momment.

Jim

It has changed my prospective on hording . I now consume the singles, as well as everything else in the cellar. Life's too short.
Jim

I have taken your words to heart and will do my utmost to arrange things so that the only bottles left in my cellar when I pass on to that great buffet in the sky will be as over the hill as I hope to be when I go!

(And it really IS a shame to squirrel stuff away too long and find it has passed on in the mean time).

Am I the only one?

Tony

Clearly not. And that's good news.

Tony

The question is, what size of cellar (in terms of numbers of bottles) does one need to have some depth in the collection. While narrow scope cellars (e.g. someone that only collects Alsatian wines , or ports) might be smaller, I have found that a cellar of about 1500 bottles (that's 20-25 rows of cases stacked 6 high) takes on a sustainable life of its own, although I've seen very decent cellars as low as half that.

I remember doing an analysis of this sort in response to a semi-troll on afw some years ago. To me, the question rests on what your level of consumption is and how old you like your wines. In our case, we consume an average of 2 bottles from the cellar per week (the remainder coming from the "current drinking" rack which is distinct in my book), which works out to roughly 100 bottles per year. Since the average age of wines pulled up from the cellar chez nous is 8 years or so, that works out to a minimum cellar size of 800 bottles for long-term sustainability. Since I already disclosed in another thread that our cellar size has shrunk in recent years to an unsustainably low level of 300 bottles, we are clearly just as irresponsible in our wine consumption as all those SUV drivers are with their gas consumption

Regarding the earlier question of purchasing habits, I'd say that early on when we were learning what we liked and exploring regions, we'd buy a lot of singles to try. For the past decade or so, though, we've been buying wines usually in 2-6 bottle lots, mostly for the reasons you laid out. We still buy some singles for exploration, but for known producers/vineyards we usually get more.

Mark Lipton