WTN: Wines and Filipino food with Liptons,SFjoe, nonWA JayM

Mark and Jean Lipton were in town, and Betsy and I were delighted to join them for dinner. A planned slight detour by Lincoln Center turned into a minor traffic nightmare, so we were a bit late getting to Cendrillon in SoHo. We arrived to find Mark, Jean, the real Jay Miller, and the renowned SFJoe (who I'd never met before) patiently waiting.

A nice assortment of wines followed. I was a tad out of sorts, and didn't take notes at the time, but following are some impressions. I will say the food at Cendrillon was excellent. I had an extraordinary goat curry with chutney and rice pancakes, followed by a tasty oxtail dish with an unusual fermented shrimp paste. Betsy had the lumpia, which I thought was like an egg roll (based on my one previous Filipino meal), but was more of a big wrap filled with veggies. Her main was very good shortribs with an excellent sauce. We brought most of our wines, but list was VERY interesting and well-priced for NY.

The white wines:
1964 Huet Vouvray Sec
This was actually a petillant, though label said Sec not Brut. Some petillance remaining, baked apples and lemon, good length, very interesting wine. B+/B

1991 Alzinger "Durnsteiner Hollerin" Riesling Smaragd
I found this a delightful surprise. From an "off" vintage, proof that good producers make good wine. In this case very good wine. Lighter than any Wachau Smaragd I've run across, sprightly wine with apple, peach, and ginger flavors. Delicate hints of petrol, though on a revisit later in night that was even less apparent. I quite enjoyed this. B+/A-

1998 Franz Hirtzberger "Singerriedel" Riesling Smaragd
Much bigger Riesling. Dry, but with a ripe fruit profile. Peach, honey, apricot. Some earth and smoke notes. Powerful, good, but I think I preferred the Alzinger from a lesser vintage overall. B+

2002 Puffeney Arbois Savagnin
Wild nose that reminds me of dried mushrooms with a hint of overripe sheeps cheese, not quite like anything I ever smelled before. Palate is much more conventional, rather easy drinking, though edging on hot. I think others liked more than I did, I found the nose intriguing, but not inviting. To be a true geek maybe one has to learn to love oddball wines like this (and Vin Jaune, and obscure Sherries), but I'll just remain a bystander. Nice to watch, but not my fave to drink. B-/C+

1996 Soucherie "Clos des Perrieres" Savennieres
My other contribution. Very muted at first, almost dilute. Picks up weight and flavor with time. Apple, wax, and lemon rind, good acidity, nice wine. I like, but don't find the depth I had in '96 Closel or even the regular Baumard (good bottles). B

The red wines
1978 Haut-Bailly
I think this is the 3rd time I've had one of these from Jay's stash. Jay thinks this bottle substandard, but I quite enjoyed (especially at end of evening). Not at all a blockbuster, some might find thin, but I found elegant and balanced. Good acidity, bright red-toned fruit, lots of cedar and tobacco aromas. Maybe could use a lighter more density and length, but a very nice wine with food. B+

1998 Drouhin "Clos des Chenes" Volnay
This is showing a tad rough and coarse right now. Big, good dark berry fruit, high acidity, some tannins. I think this is probably the best wine we had this night, but really not ready, and less fun to taste now. Everyone keeps saying the '98s are drinking well, but I keep thinking they need more time. This night this one is a B/B-. Bet in 5-10 I'll be thinking a variance on an A.

1998 Grivot Vosne-Romanee
OK, so here is a '98 that is drinking ok. Clean cherry fruit, a little hint of kirsch (though not at all overripe), some spice. Not a big wine, but a nice dinner companion. B/B+

1997 Ogier Cote-Rotie
I think I liked this more than others. Friendly puppy dog of a Northern Rhone, round blackberry and cherry fruit, some smoked meat and floral notes. Ferric/mineral edge on finish, very good. B+/A-

Fun night, even if I was beat. Nice to see Mark, Jean, and Jay again, good to meet Joe. I liked lots of the wines, and loved the food. The owner/chef joined us for a few tastes, and there was no corkage charge on the bill. Even with a lavish tip it was a fairly cheap evening. I'll be back to the restaurant (as I noted, nice list).

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

oh yeah, and a '95 Luneau-Papin Muscadet (pretty sure the L'd'Or ) was corked.

Sounds like a good time. I ate at Cendrillon once and agree, the list is great. Although you had quite a nice array of wines in your own right..

1996 Soucherie "Clos des Perrieres" Savennieres
My other contribution. Very muted at first, almost dilute. Picks up weight and flavor with time. Apple, wax, and lemon rind, good acidity, nice wine. I like, but don't find the depth I had in '96 Closel or even the regular Baumard (good bottles)..

What did you think of this on release or when it was younger?

1996 Soucherie "Clos des Perrieres" Savennieres

What did you think of this on release or when it was younger?

I checked my old Access database (what I used in the dark days before Cellartracker). I had a comment of "taut, steely, big" which didn't really remind me of last night. Not sure of when that was, but I doubt on release. I first discovered Savennieres with I think the '97 Baumard, and then backfilled '96 and '95 Baumards. I'm guessing I didnt expand into other producers till '01 or '02, probably tasted this at a store tasting and bought. Speaking of the Cendrillon list, they actually had the '03 of this wine. About as pure geeky a list as I've run across in Manhattan (maybe Trestle on 10th?).

1996 Soucherie "Clos des Perrieres" Savennieres

What did you think of this on release or when it was younger?

I checked my old Access database (what I used in the dark days before Cellartracker). I had a comment of "taut, steely, big" which didn't really remind me of last night.

Taught steely and big also reminds me of my limited experience with young Clos des Perrieres.

I was just wondering if it had been more impressive on release and was perhaps in an awkward stage.

But, I'm sure with Mr. Doughterty present you had plenty of opportunity for Informed Chenin Commentary about the wine.

[quote="Rahsaan"

But, I'm sure with Mr. Doughterty present you had plenty of opportunity for Informed Chenin Commentary about the wine.[/quote]

Actually I never heard his opinion of this one. He was suffering from jet lag, and I was out of it due to insomnia, so both of us were probably less opinionated and demonstrative than normal.

Mark and Jean Lipton were in town, and Betsy and I were delighted to join them for dinner. A planned slight detour by Lincoln Center turned into a minor traffic nightmare, so we were a bit late getting to Cendrillon in SoHo. We arrived to find Mark, Jean, the real Jay Miller, and the renowned SFJoe (who I'd never met before) patiently waiting.

Though it's worth knowing that, with the exception of the ever-punctual Mr. Miller, we had just shown up a few minutes before you two.

A nice assortment of wines followed. I was a tad out of sorts, and didn't take notes at the time, but following are some impressions. I will say the food at Cendrillon was excellent. I had an extraordinary goat curry with chutney and rice pancakes, followed by a tasty oxtail dish with an unusual fermented shrimp paste. Betsy had the lumpia, which I thought was like an egg roll (based on my one previous Filipino meal), but was more of a big wrap filled with veggies. Her main was very good shortribs with an excellent sauce. We brought most of our wines, but list was VERY interesting and well-priced for NY.

And I, foolishly, left my notepad at home, thinking that it would be too geeky for dinner -- what a mistake! I had to bum paper off Jay to keep track of all the wine. I concur about the restaurant, the wine list, and the goat curry, which was the highlight of an excellent meal.

The white wines:
1964 Huet Vouvray Sec
This was actually a petillant, though label said Sec not Brut. Some petillance remaining, baked apples and lemon, good length, very interesting wine. B+/B

I haven't had much experience with older Chenin, and when I first smelled it I asked my companions if it was corked, to which these knowlegable Cheninophiles remarked that it wasn't corked, but just smelled close to it. With that in mind, I eventually decided that the smell was bergamot. Very lovely on the palate, bright and lively with enough fruit to keep my interest.

1991 Alzinger "Durnsteiner Hollerin" Riesling Smaragd
I found this a delightful surprise. From an "off" vintage, proof that good producers make good wine. In this case very good wine. Lighter than any Wachau Smaragd I've run across, sprightly wine with apple, peach, and ginger flavors. Delicate hints of petrol, though on a revisit later in night that was even less apparent. I quite enjoyed this. B+/A-

Quite light and a bit less austere than I've come to expect from Wachau Rieslings. Nicely mineral nose, and good stone fruit with lively acidity on the palate. A great match with the goat curry, I thought.

1998 Franz Hirtzberger "Singerriedel" Riesling Smaragd
Much bigger Riesling. Dry, but with a ripe fruit profile. Peach, honey, apricot. Some earth and smoke notes. Powerful, good, but I think I preferred the Alzinger from a lesser vintage overall. B+

I was floored by this wine. The redoubtable SFJoe explained that Singerriedel got a bit of botrytis in '98 and it showed, both in the remarkable orange tint to the wine and its powerful nose of honey and apricot. A hint of petrol got through, however, to remind us that it was Riesling after all. This also went fabulously with the goat curry, I felt. Thanks, Dale!

2002 Puffeney Arbois Savagnin
Wild nose that reminds me of dried mushrooms with a hint of overripe sheeps cheese, not quite like anything I ever smelled before. Palate is much more conventional, rather easy drinking, though edging on hot. I think others liked more than I did, I found the nose intriguing, but not inviting. To be a true geek maybe one has to learn to love oddball wines like this (and Vin Jaune, and obscure Sherries), but I'll just remain a bystander. Nice to watch, but not my fave to drink. B-/C+

If ever a wine should be damned with the faint praise of an "intellectual" wine, this is it. Wow, a nose of acetaldehyde vivid
enough to pickle you, with some maple syrup lurking in the background. Very oxidative in nature, it tasted much like a Sherry, but without the clarity of character of a true Sherry. Jean quipped that, with all the acetaldehyde character, that it was a wine designed to give you a hangover. Interesting, but not something that I'd go out of my way for.

1996 Soucherie "Clos des Perrieres" Savennieres
My other contribution. Very muted at first, almost dilute. Picks up weight and flavor with time. Apple, wax, and lemon rind, good acidity, nice wine. I like, but don't find the depth I had in '96 Closel or even the regular Baumard (good bottles). B

As wonderful an event as this meal was, we ended up with 10 wines on the table and only six people eating! I was starting to feel a bit overwhelmed, and I'm afraid that this wine was a victim. Fortunately, I took it home with us that night and sampled it again in the calm of the late evening. Not as acidic as I've come to expect from Savenierres, but nice Chenin character, with that lanolin thing. I don't have enough experience with '96 Savenierres to comment, but it was a lovely wine. Thanks again, Dale!

The red wines
1978 Haut-Bailly
I think this is the 3rd time I've had one of these from Jay's stash. Jay thinks this bottle substandard, but I quite enjoyed (especially at end of evening). Not at all a blockbuster, some might find thin, but I found elegant and balanced. Good acidity, bright red-toned fruit, lots of cedar and tobacco aromas. Maybe could use a lighter more density and length, but a very nice wine with food. B+

Elegant and balanced describe this wine well. A great nose of tobacco and pencil lead. Jay worries that it'll fall apart quickly, but I saw no signs of that. Not a great match with my oxtail dish, though I understand that it went well with Betsy's shortribs.

1998 Drouhin "Clos des Chenes" Volnay
This is showing a tad rough and coarse right now. Big, good dark berry fruit, high acidity, some tannins. I think this is probably the best wine we had this night, but really not ready, and less fun to taste now. Everyone keeps saying the '98s are drinking well, but I keep thinking they need more time. This night this one is a B/B-. Bet in 5-10 I'll be thinking a variance on an A.

This wine might get better, but I like it a lot now. Medium-light weight, good berry fruit, excellent balance. I may have got to it a bit later than you did, as I was the slowpoke at the meal.

1998 Grivot Vosne-Romanee
OK, so here is a '98 that is drinking ok. Clean cherry fruit, a little hint of kirsch (though not at all overripe), some spice. Not a big wine, but a nice dinner companion. B/B+

To me, this wine was blockier than the Drouhin and didn't fare well in the comparison. Some pencil lead and cherry fruit, medium body. Nice enough, but no better.

1997 Ogier Cote-Rotie
I think I liked this more than others. Friendly puppy dog of a Northern Rhone, round blackberry and cherry fruit, some smoked meat and floral notes. Ferric/mineral edge on finish, very good. B+/A-

Again, I got to this only at the end of the meal so Dale didn't get to hear my reaction to it. I found it to be one of the cleanest
Cote-Roties I've had, with a smoky nose that wasn't at all of the bacon fat variety. Squeaky-clean Syrah berry fruit medium weight with some mineral notes. Another wine I brought back with me, it showed well for hours afterward. Not profound, but exactly what I'd hoped for when bringing it to the dinner.

Fun night, even if I was beat. Nice to see Mark, Jean, and Jay again, good to meet Joe. I liked lots of the wines, and loved the food. The owner/chef joined us for a few tastes, and there was no corkage charge on the bill. Even with a lavish tip it was a fairly cheap evening. I'll be back to the restaurant (as I noted, nice list).

My special thanks to both Dale and Joe, who made the dinner despite feeling less than 100%. It was great fun, good food and lovely wines and great people to share it all with.

Mark Lipton

Glad to hear you all had such a nice time. I love Cendrillon and wish I could have made it. Was 1991 really an off year in the Wachau? I've had a couple of lovely examples lately (and never seen a vintage chart). Sorry to hear you didn't like the Puffeney. If you don't like vin jaune, that wine will never do it for you. The reds are beautiful, and much less divisive--well, apart from people who don't like a little fresh acidity .

Cheers,
Cliff

I've never seen a Wachau vintage chart to my memory, but SFJoe said it was considered an off vintage, and that was good enough for me.
I think I remember Michael Pronay giving '90, '97, and '99 as best of decade, with '93 and '98 behind. I think '96 is only vintage considered "bad", but I've had very good wines from that year also.

I've never seen a Wachau vintage chart to my memory, but SFJoe said it was considered an off vintage, and that was good enough for me.
I think I remember Michael Pronay giving '90, '97, and '99 as best of decade, with '93 and '98 behind. I think '96 is only vintage considered "bad", but I've had very good wines from that year also.

Hi Dale,

Joe's word would certainly be enough for me. I've only had a couple, and they include the likes of Hirtzberger's Singerriedel and Pichler's Kellerberg, so they're no basis to decide. FWIW, I thought 1995 was pretty weak, too; though, as usual, there have been some good bottles.

Best,
Cliff

[David M. Bueker]

FWIW, I thought 1995 was pretty weak, too; though, as usual, there have been some good bottles.

1995 was an odd year in that lots of wines carried botrytis. 1998 had some of the same issues only with higher alcohols, thus don't show as well. I've generally liked most of the 1995s I have tried, but once again they come from high performers (e.g. Brundlmayer, Nigl, Hirtzberger...).

once again they come from high performers (e.g. Brundlmayer, Nigl, Hirtzberger...).

So much more important to me than vintage, in most cases. Consensus seems to be '96 is weakest year of decade, yet read Jim C's note on the '96 Hirtzberger Singerriedel. Sounds like stunning wine.

once again they come from high performers (e.g. Brundlmayer, Nigl, Hirtzberger...).

So much more important to me than vintage, in most cases. Consensus seems to be '96 is weakest year of decade, yet read Jim C's note on the '96 Hirtzberger Singerriedel. Sounds like stunning wine.

I attended a vertical of their Singerriedel back to the early 1990s a couple of months ago, and the central theme of the evening was how consistent they are. They had no off years. Sure, there are subtle differences from year to year, and a big change as we got to around 1998 if memory serves both b/c of the botrytis and the relative youth of the wines. But the difference between the Singerriedel and Hochrain was night and day.