How honest are you when people ask about their wine?

I seem to face this problem frequently, with wine geeks or just with people who know I like wine and ask me to comment on something they just opened. My wife is out of town and some wine geek friends invited me over for dinner. As always wine was open and the guy ask me to taste a PN. It was Ken Wright and 4-5 years old. It was thin, acidic and really not good. I said "I would not buy it" because if I gave him my honest opinion I was afraid it was one of his favorite bottles. He said he was reallly dissapointed and did not like it; also wished he did not have three more bottles. I was releaved and then really blasted the wine. The situation is almost worse with people who ask the question and don't really know wine. Are you honest or are you politically correct? I want to be more honest but being a warm, sensitive, friendly, fuzzy guy I hate to offend (not).
Walt

Hi,

There is a lovely expression "to damn with faint praise".

I believe that this diplomatic approach is useful on numerous occasions. It entails describing a wine in such a way as an intelligent person will realize that your lack of enthusiasm is really a thumbs-down.

Having said that, if there is an outrageous flaw, I strongly feel that this should be said straight out.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[Robin Garr]

Are you honest or are you politically correct? I want to be more honest but being a warm, sensitive, friendly, fuzzy guy I hate to offend (not).

Yahright.

Walt, this is indeed a problem, and I think your approach really needs to vary depending on your audience. Among fellow geeks, I'd tend to be frank. Among less geeky friends, I'd probably err on the side of politeness.

I remember an occasion when I was with a crowd of semi-geeks and some non-geeks, and someone brought a bottle of a fairly good wine (a classed Bordeaux, cellared but not ancient), and it was profoundly corked. I figured this would make a good teaching opportunity, so I discoursed on TCA at some length, whilst thoroughly bashing the wine. I gradually came to realize that everyone in the room was listening with interest, except the guy who brought the wine, who seemed to take it very personally that I was beating up on his wine. I backtracked fast, but lesson learned.

I try to be honest. Afterall it would be the worst of all worlds if you did not like your friend's valued bottles and he kept serving them to you. But I would also be careful to emphasise that my opinions are just that - opinions - personal taste. And there's no harm in commenting on positive attributes of any wine - most wines have them and I think it adds to the enjoyment to concentrate on the positive.

Faulty wine is a bit different. I am more likely to comment on it more now than I used too, but I think there are still many occasions where it is better to keep quiet. If you are not the host I'd keep quiet unless you happen to know the host very well. Hmm... even then I might say something if I was specifically asked.

Basically, I call a wine as it comes across to me. I never try to be politically correct, because I can't see the sense in that. At worst, what happens is that I discover that my tastes and that of the other person simply diverge, and no matter how much I may try to convince him or her otherwise, "the twain never shall meet". I used to be more dogmatic about trying to make people see my side in the past, but have opted instead for letting parting tastes go their own separate ways!

[Robin Garr]

I never try to be politically correct, because I can't see the sense in that.

"Politically correct" and "polite" aren't really synonyms.

Among fellow geeks, I'd tend to be frank. Among less geeky friends, I'd probably err on the side of politeness.

Yep.
And I'd probably err on the side of frankness if I'm speaking to the winemaker (alone). Which may sound odd but, he or she has probably heard the SOS from so many folks that any attempt at honesty would probably be a breath of fresh air.
Best, Jim

I prefer to have someone next to me like Thor or Yixin who will automatically hate whatever they are given.

It makes me come across as so much nicer!

%^)

A local doctor owns Miraflores Winery ... our local bottle shop carries his wines and on occasion pours them during the every week wine tasting ... when ever his wines are poured, the good doctor is always there ... I am honest with him - the whites are just barely o.k. and way overpriced ... the reds are better but still overpriced for the quality ... he is always unhappy with my comments and has stopped asking me what I think ... more generally, during our tastings at wineries in the Paso area, if the winemaker is available, I will always share my comments, good or bad, about his wines ... I have rarely found them not receptive as I would never make a comment in a mean-spirited way ...

Clink !

%^)

"Politically correct" and "polite" aren't really synonyms.

Indeed. I basically figure no holds barred at geek gatherings. But with others I would always err on the side of politeness. I never say "wow, I love this" but I've said variations on "this is certainly a powerhouse...I can see this getting big points in Wine Advocate" many times. If pressed, I'll say "it's not the style I usually buy." But totally dumping on a wine (and often a person who normally spends $8 for wine just spent $30 because he/she knew a wine geek was coming to dinner) is rude. What does it accomplish, if they aren't really into wine. To those who think themselves the non-PC champions of truth, I suppose you're also totally honest at a dinner party if the cooking isn't up to your standards?

I will generally point out corkiness, but maybe in style of " this seems to be a nice wine, but I think maybe it has some cork taint" with an explanation (and pointing out it can happen to any wine, and that they could return it). One exception was a non-geek party where I arrived just in time for the last couple ounces of a '89 Ducru . Profoundly corked, but everyone was oohing over it, what point was there in me spoiling host's fun?

Jim's situation is different, of course, if one is a professional winemaker they BETTER be capable of taking informed criticism.

The nice part about participating in geek events is that I can relax and state exactly what I feel. I have no problem trashing someones over the hill, 30 year old $$$$$$ wine. With non-geeks sharing a bottle of hideous plonk I will politely avoid any critique at all. In many ways I envy them and regret that I can no longer be happy with such wines and the benefit of the extra cash in my wallet.

Kevin

In most social situations where neither life nor death depends upon my evaluation and the wine makes me gag, I will generally just lie and tell my non-wine-geek host what an excellent wine he bought and then tell him how favorably it compares with one I do like and suggest he try that some time. No use in making people feel bad.

I don't know, folks. I guess I still believe what my mother taught me...."if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." I do agree you have to play it by ear, in that maybe the person is really looking for your honest opinion but I always try to err on the side of kindness. After all, it really is just a matter of personal taste.

Glenn

Probably best to turn the question around and ask what they think of it. If they insist on your opinion first, then I wouldn't be as concerned about causing offence, as I'd be paited into a corner.

I'm not so full of myself that I won't pick out the odd positive to reinforce their ego, indeed empathising where I agree in their description, but not too proud to ask for a different drink once the glass is empty (often a water or soft drink, which is easy to justify without causing offence) - or nurse it long enough for something else to be opened.

I don't know, folks. I guess I still believe what my mother taught me...."if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

Sounds like a pretty quiet and boring household to me

I try to be honest, and I think sometimes winegeeks can take themselves and their opinions too seriously by trying to offer too many convoluted "diplomatic" answers that don't come off as offensive.

That said, I certainly don't go out of my way to offend people, and usually offer some version of "this is not my style" or "this would be good for x occasion" if in fact I don't care for the wine..

It also depends whether it is someone I barely know, in which case I would be more likely to offer a bland remark. But if it is one of my friends or someone I am likely to dine with in the future (i.e. my in-laws), it is in my interest to be honest and help them understand my palate for future occasions

Why would you or anyone care about offending?
As a colleague of mine was fond of saying: "They're only people".
William

I'm with Robin. It depends on the audience.

If my 85 year old father pours me a wine he's purchased, I tell him I love it, no matter how bad it may be. It makes him happy, and that's more important to me than wine geekery.

If I am with people who I know are into wine, the way we're into wine, then it's no holds barred.

With anyone else, it's easy enough to just be polite and say the wine is fine. In social situations, common courtesy trumps all.
I would no sooner tell someone I didn't like the wine they offered me than I would tell them I didn't like their haircut, or their clothes. What's to be gained?

When tasting purchased wines, I am quite honest. When tasting homemade wines, I lie like a dog.

Good question.

I think a lot of it has to do with how well you trust the response of the person pouring the wine.

Are they truly interested in your unabashed opinion or would they be insulted? I tend to choose my words carefully, but adjust them to praise or understate, as it were, the juice in my glass. Make sense?

I remember once at a dinner party, our hostess found out I am/was a wine drinker. So she bought her favorite Sangria to share with us all. I politely took an ice-filled tumbler full and nursed it to the evening's end.


Thankfully, she never asked if I liked it or not.



Whew!

A really interesting question, Walt. Being asked your opinion about wine can be very awkward, but I've never thought out a policy until reading your post.

The distinction between flawed, bad wine and wine that merely falls short for stylistic or quality reasons is key to me. If something is genuinely corked, I'll say so, as long as I'm not a latecomer (a la Robin). However, I'll definitely say that something isn't my style (and that especially includes offlines where I may simultaneously be genuinely grateful to have tried something, if only to confirm a suspicion that I don't like it). However, in the case of a minor flaw (non-terminal heat damage, etc.) I might still use the "style" dodge.

Over Christmas there was a situation with a rib roast where a family member wanted to serve Smoking Loon cabernet, or La Vielle Ferme (not the CdP), and asked my opinion. Now that was awkward! I couldn't help it, I asked if he had something special to open instead of wines you could buy at a grocery store, since it was Christmas. I cannot say this went over especially well, not that I blame the gentleman, as it was somewhat rude. Anyone think I was really out of line? Luckily he did have some fine zin which was excellent with the roast, but I still feel bad.

Walt

P.S. And I want your honest opinions! Please don't say, "That's not the style in which I would have handled it," when you mean, "You were an ass!"

Anyone think I was really out of line?

Yes.

A really interesting question, Walt. Being asked your opinion about wine can be very awkward, but I've never thought out a policy until reading your post.

The distinction between flawed, bad wine and wine that merely falls short for stylistic or quality reasons is key to me. If something is genuinely corked, I'll say so, as long as I'm not a latecomer (a la Robin). However, I'll definitely say that something isn't my style (and that especially includes offlines where I may simultaneously be genuinely grateful to have tried something, if only to confirm a suspicion that I don't like it). However, in the case of a minor flaw (non-terminal heat damage, etc.) I might still use the "style" dodge.

Over Christmas there was a situation with a rib roast where a family member wanted to serve Smoking Loon cabernet, or La Vielle Ferme (not the CdP), and asked my opinion. Now that was awkward! I couldn't help it, I asked if he had something special to open instead of wines you could buy at a grocery store, since it was Christmas. I cannot say this went over especially well, not that I blame the gentleman, as it was somewhat rude. Anyone think I was really out of line? Luckily he did have some fine zin which was excellent with the roast, but I still feel bad.

Walt

P.S. And I want your honest opinions! Please don't say, "That's not the style in which I would have handled it," when you mean, "You were an ass!"

Walt,
Us Walts have to stick together and if this guy really had some good stuff but chose to offer swill and then wanted your approval I do not think your comment was out of line. If he had better stuff he should have brought it out.

I have no problem with commenting on flawed wine but last weekend this wine was not flawed, just showing very poorly, thin, somewhat acidic and heading the wrong way.

Walt

[Robin Garr]

Over Christmas there was a situation with a rib roast where a family member wanted to serve Smoking Loon cabernet, or La Vielle Ferme (not the CdP), and asked my opinion. Now that was awkward! I couldn't help it, I asked if he had something special to open instead of wines you could buy at a grocery store, since it was Christmas. I cannot say this went over especially well, not that I blame the gentleman, as it was somewhat rude. Anyone think I was really out of line? Luckily he did have some fine zin which was excellent with the roast, but I still feel bad.

Walt, I think you were okay for two reasons: He asked. And it was family, not an unrelated host in whose home you were a guest. I wouldn't look back, wouldn't give it a second thought.

I think that most people whom I drink wine with know my preferences well. I'm expected to act the way I do, which is often in disgust -some wines I won't swallow (or even put in my mouth if the nose is too much for me. -I know, what a jerk... !) I cannot and will not hold back. In the company of the winemaker, I feel that silence speaks volumes. It's all part of my charm!