Loireheads, what's wrong with this sentence?

"The grape varieties employed in its production have a low qualitative potential (Thomas seedless, hybrids, Chenin Blanc, Ugni Blanc)."




from
http://www.chablis.net/bivb/usurpang.html

"The grape varieties employed in its production have a low qualitative potential (Thomas seedless, hybrids, Chenin Blanc, Ugni Blanc)."




from
http://www.chablis.net/bivb/usurpang.html

Look at the source, Dale. Like Burgundians are every going to give props to anything but Chardonnay and PN...well, with the occasional exception of Sauvignon Blanc, now that they have a Burgundian SB AOC, of course.

And I wonder if the Gascoin and Charentais think Ugni Blanc has little qualitative potential???

[Robin Garr]

Thomas seedless

Thompson Seedless. I'm sure that's the error you had in mind, Dale.

Oh, and the Chenin thingie, too.

They pretty much rang the bell about hybrids, though ...

And I wonder if the Gascoin and Charentais think Ugni Blanc has little qualitative potential???

The magic of distilling! I confess I can't remember an Ugni Blanc wine that I liked enough to buy more, though I am sure they exist.

Thompson Seedless.

I totally missed that, thanks!

They pretty much rang the bell about hybrids, though ...

Works for me (sorry Paul!)

And I wonder if the Gascoin and Charentais think Ugni Blanc has little qualitative potential???

The magic of distilling! I confess I can't remember an Ugni Blanc wine that I liked enough to buy more, though I am sure they exist.

Actually, they do exist. Not many and not much, but they do exist.

Since almost everyone in Italy makes some form of Trebbiano (Ugni Blanc, St. Emilion and a hundred other names), odds dictate that sooner or later someone will make a good wine of it. And it has happened.

Since almost everyone in Italy makes some form of Trebbiano (Ugni Blanc, St. Emilion and a hundred other names), odds dictate that sooner or later someone will make a good wine of it. And it has happened.

I'm sure! I think lots of Vin Santos are mostly Trebbiano?

I do feel compelled to point out that Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo is a different grape (I'm sure you know that, but when people diss Trebbiano/UB someone always jumps in to say "what about Valentini Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo").

Since almost everyone in Italy makes some form of Trebbiano (Ugni Blanc, St. Emilion and a hundred other names), odds dictate that sooner or later someone will make a good wine of it. And it has happened.

I'm sure! I think lots of Vin Santos are mostly Trebbiano?

I do feel compelled to point out that Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo is a different grape (I'm sure you know that, but when people diss Trebbiano/UB someone always jumps in to say "what about Valentini Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo").

You mean Bombino Bianco?

Well, even there (gasp) you'll get arguments about whether Bombino and Trebb are the same thing.

I believe there are about 80 or so recognized variations of Trebb in Italy. And that's just the ones that are official.

Vin Santos Trebbiano? Well, there's also Malvasia and some other grapes out there making vs. And when you get to Greece...woohoo, who knows!

And wouldntya know it..there's more than a few Trebbianos that have come from California. Not too many memorable ones, mind you, but the grape is here.

Chenin blanc has low qualitative potential? Hah!

Chenin blanc in the Loire has anything but a "low quality potential". In that region, it produces some of the world's most monumental white wines--dry, sweet, and sparkling.

Ugni blanc has its place as a producer of some of the world's greatest brandy. In France, at least, its wines are best forgotten and sent to the distillery.

Thompson seedless is a fine table grape. But keep it away from the fermenting vats at all costs!

-Paul W.

Re Chenin blanc -

I bristled when I saw "low qualitative potential" applied to Chenin blanc but in the article I saw that this comment was applied to Chenin blanc for making "Chablis" in America. As I have never had a fine Chenin from outside the Loire valley, I can't say that writer is wrong when talking about its potential in North America.

two questions i hope someone can answer
1. which of the producers named actually uses hybrids? is there still a taylor new york version of chablis? i guess they might
2. one of the named producers of US chablis is Franciscan - can that be correct?

[Robin Garr]

Ugni blanc has its place as a producer of some of the world's greatest brandy. In France, at least, its wines are best forgotten and sent to the distillery.

Generalizations are always iffy. Domaine de Pouy is a consistent QPR favorite and demonstrably exceeds its humble origins.

two questions i hope someone can answer
1. which of the producers named actually uses hybrids? is there still a taylor new york version of chablis? i guess they might
2. one of the named producers of US chablis is Franciscan - can that be correct?

I think Taylor's "Lake Country" line still has their "Chablis," among the named producers. A quick google also show examples like an Ohio winery that uses Vidal Blanc in their "Chablis." Doubt there is much hybrid acreage in Central Valley of CA.

Another quick google shows Franciscan Chablis on some wine lists in inexpensive restaurants. Surprises me, too.

I'd say almost any variety has low qualitative possibilities if grown for volume along I-5. But it was striking that CB was included in a big general statement like that, since most wine people recognize the greatness of CB in the Loire (and maybe SA). Don't get your wine knowledge from accounting firms.

Robin, it's telling that best example for UB offered is a very good $7 wine. Hey, I've even had hybrids I thought were good values. But unlike Chenin I've never had a hybrid or UB that was a great wine for my tastes.

I do feel compelled to point out that Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo is a different grape (I'm sure you know that, but when people diss Trebbiano/UB someone always jumps in to say "what about Valentini Trebbiano d'Abbruzzo").

Dale, I did not know that. I have heard that Trebbiano di Lugana is claimed to actually be Verdicchio, but do you know which grape Trebbiano d'Abruzzo is claimed/found to be. And how sure this is?

I did think about mentioning Valentini's Trebbiano d'A, and have tasted this rather rare wine, but could not understand the fuss about it. Can you?
Cheers, Anders

Could someone please name the world class wines made from Chenin Blanc?

Thanks in advance,
Alex R.

world class wines from chenin
bonnezaux
vouvray
montlouis
jasnieres?
chinon blanc?
coteaux de layon
quarts de chaume
savenierres
?=world class or just good
did i miss any from that area?

i've tasted very good ones - maybe not world class, but....
from South Africa and Long Island

[Robin Garr]

Could someone please name the world class wines made from Chenin Blanc?

What David said. Just go to the Loire for instruction. Take away the hype, and Coteaux du Layon, Bonnezeaux, Quarts de Chaume and Moulin Touchais will blow away most Sauternes, perhaps even d'Yquem. Add Savennières, Vouvray and Mountlouis for table wines, and Cremant de la Loire for bubbly, and it is difficult for me to think of any grape and region, anywhere in the world, that can surpass Loire Chenin Blanc for quality, and relatively few that can equal it.

Could someone please name the world class wines made from Chenin Blanc?

What David said. Just go to the Loire for instruction. Take away the hype, and Coteaux du Layon, Bonnezeaux, Quarts de Chaume and Moulin Touchais will blow away most Sauternes, perhaps even d'Yquem. Add Savennières, Vouvray and Mountlouis for table wines, and Cremant de la Loire for bubbly, and it is difficult for me to think of any grape and region, anywhere in the world, that can surpass Loire Chenin Blanc for quality, and relatively few that can equal it.

Yes, Alex, going to the Loire for you is only a matter of three hours or so drive. There are a lot of excellent estates worth visiting and I have never found a vigneron there who is not friendly. And, if I dare suggest it to a Bordelais, the reds from Saumur-Champigny, Chinon and Bourgueil are also well worth investigating.

Incidentally no one has mentioned the chenins, Saumur Brezé from Clos Rougeard, and Saumur les Cormiers from Château de Villeneuve, both very highly regarded which I might like even better if they saw less oak.

I'd say almost any variety has low quantitative possibilities if grown for volume along I-5. But it was striking that CB was included in a big general statement like that, since most wine people recognize the greatness of CB in the Loire (and maybe SA). Don't get your wine knowledge from accounting firms.

I think you meant low qualitative possibilities, not quantitative.

I agree. Look at all the schlock chardonnay out there. Never underestimate the bulk wine industry's capacity to turn the potentially great into the mediocre.

-Paul W.

Yikes! Thanks Paul, fngers faster than brain! Edited.

robin makes an added point about the sweetest loire chenins being as good as or superior to sauternes. i've only said this to a few friends; but i agree! sauterne can often be 'heavy' - foursquare and low in acidity. i like them, don't get me wrong. but on new years eve i had some good friends and real winelovers over for dinner. i had been to ch. des fesles a year ago and bought a single bottle of the bonnezaux '97 - i know - what was i thinking - i should have bought a case. we opened it and it was one of the most sublime experiences i've ever had. rich and ethereal at the same time. much more subtle than sauterne yet with all the rich sweet satisfaction. thanks for bringing up the subject robin.

world class wines from chenin
bonnezaux
vouvray
montlouis
jasnieres?
chinon blanc?
coteaux de layon
quarts de chaume
savenierres
?=world class or just good
did i miss any from that area?

i've tasted very good ones - maybe not world class, but....
from South Africa and Long Island

Good list. Of course, for "world class" we're obviously talking the best examples of each appellation (which is true anywhere, from Pomerol and Pauillac to Barbaresco and Napa).

Thought of 2 other appellations that can make CB that I might call world-class, at least from one producer:
Anjou blanc (as done by Marc Angelli), Coteaux du Loir (as done by Belliviere)

So started thinking who makes world-class CB from each appellation. Here were my candidates (ones in parentheses are good producers, but I might not make the argument for "world class" without hearing a definition):

Vouvray- Huet, Foreau/Clos Naudin (Pinon)
Montlouis- Chidaine
Coteaux de Layon -Moulin Touchais, Pierre-Bise, Baumard
Quarts de Chaume-Baumard (Laffourcade)
Savenierres- Closel, Baumard (Soucherie, Tijou)